Another Spanish lesson! This one in Leiden!

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AdminX
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Another Spanish lesson! This one in Leiden!

Post by AdminX » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:01 pm

Now it's Junior's turn to take Rybka to school. I am sure this one will be posted on Chessbase. Another Spanish lesson, this time in Leiden! 8-)

[d]1r6/4K1pk/2R2p1p/1p1P3P/1N3B2/6P1/5r2/8 b - - 0 82

[Event "Dutch open"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Junior"]
[Black "Rybka"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Annotator "Nightwish35"]
[PlyCount "163"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 d6 8. c3
O-O 9. h3 Bb7 10. d4 Re8 11. Nbd2 Bf8 12. a3 h6 13. Bc2 Nb8 14. b4 Nbd7 15. Bb2
c6 16. Nb3 Rc8 17. a4 Qc7 18. axb5 axb5 19. Qb1 Ra8 20. Na5 Ba6 21. Qd1 exd4
22. cxd4 d5 23. e5 Bxb4 24. exf6 Bxe1 25. Nxe1 Nxf6 26. Bc3 Ne4 27. Bb4 Bc8 28.
Qc1 Bf5 29. Bb1 Qb6 30. Nf3 f6 31. Qb2 Bh7 32. Nd2 Nxd2 33. Qxd2 Bxb1 34. Rxb1
Ra6 35. Rc1 Qc7 36. Nb3 Qa7 37. Qd3 Qa8 38. Bd2 Re7 39. Qg3 Kh8 40. Kh2 Qd8 41.
Nc5 Ra2 42. Be3 Ra3 43. Qg4 Qe8 44. Re1 Ra8 45. Qf5 Kg8 46. h4 Qc8 47. Qg6 Ra2
48. h5 Qb8+ 49. Kh3 Qe8 50. Qg4 Qf7 51. Qf5 Ra3 52. Rc1 Raa7 53. g3 Qe8 54. Qg4
Ra2 55. Nd3 Re4 56. Qf5 Ra3 57. Nc5 Re7 58. Re1 Ra8 59. Kg2 Ra2 60. Kf3 Qf7 61.
Qc8+ Kh7 62. Kg4 Qe8 63. Qxe8 Rxe8 64. Kf5 Ra5 65. Rb1 Ra2 66. Rc1 Ra7 67. Rc2
Kg8 68. Nd3 Ra3 69. Nb4 Ra4 70. Rb2 Rc8 71. Ke6 Raa8 72. Bf4 Kh7 73. Kd6 Ra7
74. Rc2 Ra1 75. Rxc6 Rd8+ 76. Ke7 Rda8 77. Nxd5 Rd1 78. Be3 Rb8 79. Nb4 Rb1 80.
Bd2 Rf1 81. d5 Rxf2 82. Bf4 1-0
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
__________________________________________________________________
Ted Summers

F. Bluemers
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Re: Another Spanish lesson! This one in Leiden!

Post by F. Bluemers » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:16 pm

ah Good :-)
now we can read more funny complaints in the rybka fanboi blog
http://www.chessvibes.com/?p=1284

Best
Fonzy

Dr.Ex
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:10 am

Re: Another Spanish lesson! This one in Leiden!

Post by Dr.Ex » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:00 pm

AdminX wrote:Now it's Junior's turn to take Rybka to school. I am sure this one will be posted on Chessbase.

Don't think so.

Another Spanish lesson, this time in Leiden! 8-)

[d]1r6/4K1pk/2R2p1p/1p1P3P/1N3B2/6P1/5r2/8 b - - 0 82

[Event "Dutch open"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Junior"]
[Black "Rybka"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Annotator "Nightwish35"]
[PlyCount "163"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 d6 8. c3
O-O 9. h3 Bb7 10. d4 Re8 11. Nbd2 Bf8 12. a3 h6 13. Bc2 Nb8 14. b4 Nbd7 15. Bb2
c6 16. Nb3 Rc8 17. a4 Qc7 18. axb5 axb5 19. Qb1 Ra8 20. Na5 Ba6 21. Qd1 exd4
22. cxd4 d5 23. e5 Bxb4 24. exf6 Bxe1 25. Nxe1 Nxf6 26. Bc3 Ne4 27. Bb4 Bc8 28.
Qc1 Bf5 29. Bb1 Qb6 30. Nf3 f6 31. Qb2 Bh7 32. Nd2 Nxd2 33. Qxd2 Bxb1 34. Rxb1
Ra6 35. Rc1 Qc7 36. Nb3 Qa7 37. Qd3 Qa8 38. Bd2 Re7 39. Qg3 Kh8 40. Kh2 Qd8 41.
Nc5 Ra2 42. Be3 Ra3 43. Qg4 Qe8 44. Re1 Ra8 45. Qf5 Kg8 46. h4 Qc8 47. Qg6 Ra2
48. h5 Qb8+ 49. Kh3 Qe8 50. Qg4 Qf7 51. Qf5 Ra3 52. Rc1 Raa7 53. g3 Qe8 54. Qg4
Ra2 55. Nd3 Re4 56. Qf5 Ra3 57. Nc5 Re7 58. Re1 Ra8 59. Kg2 Ra2 60. Kf3 Qf7 61.
Qc8+ Kh7 62. Kg4 Qe8 63. Qxe8 Rxe8 64. Kf5 Ra5 65. Rb1 Ra2 66. Rc1 Ra7 67. Rc2
Kg8 68. Nd3 Ra3 69. Nb4 Ra4 70. Rb2 Rc8 71. Ke6 Raa8 72. Bf4 Kh7 73. Kd6 Ra7
74. Rc2 Ra1 75. Rxc6 Rd8+ 76. Ke7 Rda8 77. Nxd5 Rd1 78. Be3 Rb8 79. Nb4 Rb1 80.
Bd2 Rf1 81. d5 Rxf2 82. Bf4 1-0
There is a huge difference between a Rybka - Junior basement match and a real match with opening prep and unlimited hardware.

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AdminX
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Re: Another Spanish lesson! This one in Leiden!

Post by AdminX » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:10 pm

Dr.Ex wrote:There is a huge difference between a Rybka - Junior basement match and a real match with opening prep and unlimited hardware.
Tell me about it Mischa. :lol: Really Big Difference.

[d]r3rbk1/2qn1pp1/b1p2n1p/Np1p4/1P1PP3/5N1P/1BB2PP1/R2QR1K1 w - - 0 23

This is where it started to get interesting for me. Junior played 23. e5 and play followed 23. ... Bxb4 24. exf6 Bxe1 25. Nxe1 Nxf6 with a interesting imbalance.

[d]r3r1k1/2q2pp1/b1p2n1p/Np1p4/3P4/7P/1BB2PP1/R2QN1K1 w - - 0 26


Watching this game I thought it was funny to see how Rybka had offered the trade of queens at different points in the game and when Rybka finally had the queens traded off if was to Juniors advantage.

[d]4r3/6pk/2p2p1p/1pNp1K1P/3P4/4B1P1/r4P2/4R3 b - - 0 64
Position after Queens were traded off.
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
__________________________________________________________________
Ted Summers

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Re: Another Spanish lesson! This one in Leiden!

Post by Uri Blass » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:16 pm

Dr.Ex wrote:
AdminX wrote:Now it's Junior's turn to take Rybka to school. I am sure this one will be posted on Chessbase.

Don't think so.

Another Spanish lesson, this time in Leiden! 8-)

[d]1r6/4K1pk/2R2p1p/1p1P3P/1N3B2/6P1/5r2/8 b - - 0 82

[Event "Dutch open"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Junior"]
[Black "Rybka"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Annotator "Nightwish35"]
[PlyCount "163"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 d6 8. c3
O-O 9. h3 Bb7 10. d4 Re8 11. Nbd2 Bf8 12. a3 h6 13. Bc2 Nb8 14. b4 Nbd7 15. Bb2
c6 16. Nb3 Rc8 17. a4 Qc7 18. axb5 axb5 19. Qb1 Ra8 20. Na5 Ba6 21. Qd1 exd4
22. cxd4 d5 23. e5 Bxb4 24. exf6 Bxe1 25. Nxe1 Nxf6 26. Bc3 Ne4 27. Bb4 Bc8 28.
Qc1 Bf5 29. Bb1 Qb6 30. Nf3 f6 31. Qb2 Bh7 32. Nd2 Nxd2 33. Qxd2 Bxb1 34. Rxb1
Ra6 35. Rc1 Qc7 36. Nb3 Qa7 37. Qd3 Qa8 38. Bd2 Re7 39. Qg3 Kh8 40. Kh2 Qd8 41.
Nc5 Ra2 42. Be3 Ra3 43. Qg4 Qe8 44. Re1 Ra8 45. Qf5 Kg8 46. h4 Qc8 47. Qg6 Ra2
48. h5 Qb8+ 49. Kh3 Qe8 50. Qg4 Qf7 51. Qf5 Ra3 52. Rc1 Raa7 53. g3 Qe8 54. Qg4
Ra2 55. Nd3 Re4 56. Qf5 Ra3 57. Nc5 Re7 58. Re1 Ra8 59. Kg2 Ra2 60. Kf3 Qf7 61.
Qc8+ Kh7 62. Kg4 Qe8 63. Qxe8 Rxe8 64. Kf5 Ra5 65. Rb1 Ra2 66. Rc1 Ra7 67. Rc2
Kg8 68. Nd3 Ra3 69. Nb4 Ra4 70. Rb2 Rc8 71. Ke6 Raa8 72. Bf4 Kh7 73. Kd6 Ra7
74. Rc2 Ra1 75. Rxc6 Rd8+ 76. Ke7 Rda8 77. Nxd5 Rd1 78. Be3 Rb8 79. Nb4 Rb1 80.
Bd2 Rf1 81. d5 Rxf2 82. Bf4 1-0
There is a huge difference between a Rybka - Junior basement match and a real match with opening prep and unlimited hardware.
No proof for a huge difference.

In a single game rybka can lose and it is not a rare event.
From the CEGT

CEGT 40/120 (AMD64 x2 4200+) 2007
12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890
1 Rybka 2.3.2a 64 mp 1011½½111111110½½½½½111½1½1½½11½0½111½1111½½½11½½½ 37.0/50
2 Deep Junior 10 0100½½000000001½½½½½000½0½0½½00½1½000½0000½½½00½½½ 13.0/50

You can see that rybka lost 3 games out of 50.

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Re: Another Spanish lesson! This one in Leiden!

Post by F. Bluemers » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:25 pm

There is a huge difference between a Rybka - Junior basement match and a real match with opening prep and unlimited hardware.
you just proved his point,Uri :!:

Best
Fonzy

Dr.Ex
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:10 am

Re: Another Spanish lesson! This one in Leiden!

Post by Dr.Ex » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:49 pm

AdminX wrote:
Dr.Ex wrote:There is a huge difference between a Rybka - Junior basement match and a real match with opening prep and unlimited hardware.
Tell me about it Mischa. :lol: Really Big Difference.

[d]r3rbk1/2qn1pp1/b1p2n1p/Np1p4/1P1PP3/5N1P/1BB2PP1/R2QR1K1 w - - 0 23

This is where it started to get interesting for me. Junior played 23. e5 and play followed 23. ... Bxb4 24. exf6 Bxe1 25. Nxe1 Nxf6 with a interesting imbalance.


Looks simply like a bad trade to me which could have been avoided earlier. Two minor pieces are better than a rook and two immobile pawns.

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Daniel Mehrmann
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Re: Another Spanish lesson! This one in Leiden!

Post by Daniel Mehrmann » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:53 pm

Dr.Ex wrote: There is a huge difference between a Rybka - Junior basement match and a real match with opening prep and unlimited hardware.
:shock:

1. The Rybka team has one of the best book cooker of the world
2. Rybkas scaling is very bad on more then 4 CPU's

So, your statement is pointless.

Best,
Daniel

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Mike S.
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Re: Another Spanish lesson! This one in Leiden!

Post by Mike S. » Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:27 am

Dr.Ex wrote: Looks simply like a bad trade to me which could have been avoided earlier. Two minor pieces are better than a rook and two immobile pawns.
Yes, that seems to be the trick with 23.e5 or with the variation leading to it. But can it have been a book preparation? It would be interesting to know what the last book moves were, each. In my databases, I find only one GM example for Rybka's 15...c6, and none for 16.Nb3.

I know that special tournament books are used in such events. For comparison, in the public RybkaII.ctg book, 15...c6 is set to red (unplayable, 0%), and 15...g6 or 15...Nb6 would have been played from it.

Some people connect this loss to a general underperformance of Rybka in the closed Ruy Lopez they observe... But here, it looks like the full point may go to the Junior engine (and the hardware difference). Although, if it was a deep preparation against the rare(?) 15...c6, it would be a good book win either.

(I don't know if 15...c6 is a new fashion among top GM, or in recent freestyle games; in that case I could imagine that it was not unexpected.)
Regards, Mike

Tony Thomas

Re: Another Spanish lesson! This one in Leiden!

Post by Tony Thomas » Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:45 am

Rybka is still going to win the tournament.

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