That's it. He is trying other's ideas on his own engine. Some might work others not. Every single top programmer does that and it doesn't prevent his program of being an original work.benstoker wrote: Maybe I got it all wrong. So, what exactly is one doing when picking through the ippo* code trying to figure it out to see if any ideas can be discovered to implement in one's own engine?
Now you have switched from trolling to post something worth the discussion.What is that called? Ditto disassembly of Houdini, Rybka, etc.? You disagree with Muller that Fabien's accomplishment and originality is relegated to little more than debugging? Why do you disagree with that, if you do? If good debugging earns one the "originality" predicate a la Muller, then why does Don dismiss Richard's opinion that Houdart has done something original? What are your percentages? Dear sir, please divide up each of the Crafty functions below into two groups: 1-1 and 1-many. Let's start there. Please don't bother, if all you got to say is "you know it when you see it". We have a long ways to go; but, you appear to have interest in defining "originality". In your opinion, what % of chess engine source code is 1:1 and what percentage is 1:many? Are there sub-parts within search() that are 1:1? What category do magic bitboards fall into? kpk bitbases go into the 1:1 bucket, right? For, instance, if I copy the following null move code into my search(), does that diminish "originality"?:
The word "original" as applied to computer chess is subject to semantics. I think it is not that difficult to define it for the purpose of a "working" definition. But don't mix original as applied in "original work" and "original idea": Houdini is not an original work, because Robert Houdart started out of Ippo* sources. Although Houdini is an original chess engine, otherwise it would not be clearly in the 1th spot - Original here, in the sense it is unprecedented (specially in terms of Elo). If Robert Houdart had a original idea... I don't know. That was what Don was arguing when Richard said he found a "never-seen" horizon extension idea. As far as I can tell Don stated it is not new, as it could be found in earlier versions of others engines, as in GnuChess. Maybe you are distorting this simple argument and creating a controversy.