Taming the Tiger :-)

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Nimzovik
Posts: 1831
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:08 pm

Re: Taming the Tiger :-)

Post by Nimzovik » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:28 pm

Christophe Theron wrote:

There is no loss of strength. It's a special set of rules that is activated only if the opponent is clearly trying to NOT play. It is never activated when the opponent, computer or human, really plays chess.

Pablo himself has posted some example games against Tiger and admitted it is the ONLY program that did not fall into his strategic trap. At some point the program decides that enough is enough, breaks into the opponent's position with a sacrifice and slaughter him.

You can search the archives if you want to see it.

You are entitled to your opinion about Chess Tiger not being competitive these days, but the only one who really knows is me.
No offense meant.

Bold Lettering mine:

Nimzovik responds:


Heh heh....You and the rating lists..... No need to get defensive tho Mr. Christophe Theron..... Your contribution to chess is acknowledged. To put it in Sports terms I would say you are the ----- Howard Cosell ----of chess.................

bob
Posts: 20550
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Birmingham, AL

Re: Taming the Tiger :-)

Post by bob » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:37 pm

Nimzovik wrote:Christophe Theron wrote:

There is no loss of strength. It's a special set of rules that is activated only if the opponent is clearly trying to NOT play. It is never activated when the opponent, computer or human, really plays chess.

Pablo himself has posted some example games against Tiger and admitted it is the ONLY program that did not fall into his strategic trap. At some point the program decides that enough is enough, breaks into the opponent's position with a sacrifice and slaughter him.

You can search the archives if you want to see it.

You are entitled to your opinion about Chess Tiger not being competitive these days, but the only one who really knows is me.
No offense meant.

Bold Lettering mine:

Nimzovik responds:


Heh heh....You and the rating lists..... No need to get defensive tho Mr. Christophe Theron..... Your contribution to chess is acknowledged. To put it in Sports terms I would say you are the ----- Howard Cosell ----of chess.................
Let me make this crystal clear. Given the choice of having CT posting here, or you, most of us, myself included, would rather have Christophe. Please stop with these snide comments before we stop you, permanently.

Nimzovik
Posts: 1831
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:08 pm

Re: Taming the Tiger :-)

Post by Nimzovik » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:01 pm

Well! :shock: I guess you told me!!!!!!!!!!!

Nimzovik
Posts: 1831
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:08 pm

Re: Taming the Tiger :-)

Post by Nimzovik » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:22 pm

DE VOS Walter



Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Posts: 368
Location: Belgium
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:17 am Post subject: Re: HOUDINI No Fear! If you are with God you are going to wi

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

lucasart wrote:
Father wrote:
Houdini 1.5a x64 SSE42 (6 cores): 17.3 plies; 15.456kN/s Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 970 @ 3.20GHz 4043MHz

April 7,2011. Day's San Juan Bautista De La Salle (1651-1719).

Teacher & Professor of the Love of Jesus, San Juan Bautista De La Salle. With all respect as a pray, I give you and to our God of love, 292 years after your last day in the Blue Earth planet, a Sunday, the day of the Lord, this little game against the technology and the science, as a little probe that the power of love if over all, because of, at the end, only the love will be alive for ever in the sky, far away of the hate and the hell. Please help us, all the countries in this days of darkness’s and wars, when the vanities looks in the chairs of many goberments.Please tall to God, that give to us the humanities and human race, the reconciliation, the justice, and the pardon, as a unique technique to search the peace.

Salutes to Mister Houdini, the top of magicians.



What's all this God nonsense got to do with chess ? Sorry for my atheist remark, but believing that a 1700 elo player beats Houdini in 3 min with 0 seconds increment is even more absurd than believing in God...


Those God freaks, well they're friendly but, the sh*t they believe has got their minds all shut”_________________

"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike."


Bold Lettering Mine Italics mine.






Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 11799
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Taming the Tiger :-)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nimzovik wrote:
Christophe Theron wrote:

There is no loss of strength. It's a special set of rules that is activated only if the opponent is clearly trying to NOT play. It is never activated when the opponent, computer or human, really plays chess.

Pablo himself has posted some example games against Tiger and admitted it is the ONLY program that did not fall into his strategic trap. At some point the program decides that enough is enough, breaks into the opponent's position with a sacrifice and slaughter him.

You can search the archives if you want to see it.

You are entitled to your opinion about Chess Tiger (apparantly NOT) not being competitive these days, but the only one who really knows is me.
No offense meant.


Bold Lettering mine: Parentheses Mine

Nimzovik responds:


Heh heh....You and the rating lists..... No need to get defensive tho Mr. Christophe Theron..... Your contribution to chess is acknowledged. To put it in Sports terms I would say you are the ----- Howard Cosell ----of chess.................

The Moderators Speak

Let me make this crystal clear. Given the choice of having CT posting here, or you, most of us, myself included, would rather have Christophe. Please stop with these snide comments before we stop you, permanently.

Bold lettering Mine.

Nimzoviks responds.

Welllll...........comparing and contrasting these posts it is quite revealing the philosophy (or lack there of) of the Moderators here.

In view of the permitted heinous rampant slurs against the Chrsistian religion, I therefore I consider it an honor to be banned - permanently form your Forum. I hope I have made myself crystal clear-yes? Please dear moderators assure this happens immediately. Thank you for your attention in this regard.

bob
Posts: 20550
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Birmingham, AL

Re: Taming the Tiger :-)

Post by bob » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:30 am

Nimzovik wrote:DE VOS Walter



Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Posts: 368
Location: Belgium
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:17 am Post subject: Re: HOUDINI No Fear! If you are with God you are going to wi

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

lucasart wrote:
Father wrote:
Houdini 1.5a x64 SSE42 (6 cores): 17.3 plies; 15.456kN/s Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 970 @ 3.20GHz 4043MHz

April 7,2011. Day's San Juan Bautista De La Salle (1651-1719).

Teacher & Professor of the Love of Jesus, San Juan Bautista De La Salle. With all respect as a pray, I give you and to our God of love, 292 years after your last day in the Blue Earth planet, a Sunday, the day of the Lord, this little game against the technology and the science, as a little probe that the power of love if over all, because of, at the end, only the love will be alive for ever in the sky, far away of the hate and the hell. Please help us, all the countries in this days of darkness’s and wars, when the vanities looks in the chairs of many goberments.Please tall to God, that give to us the humanities and human race, the reconciliation, the justice, and the pardon, as a unique technique to search the peace.

Salutes to Mister Houdini, the top of magicians.



What's all this God nonsense got to do with chess ? Sorry for my atheist remark, but believing that a 1700 elo player beats Houdini in 3 min with 0 seconds increment is even more absurd than believing in God...


Those God freaks, well they're friendly but, the sh*t they believe has got their minds all shut”_________________

"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike."


Bold Lettering Mine Italics mine.






Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 11799
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Taming the Tiger :-)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nimzovik wrote:
Christophe Theron wrote:

There is no loss of strength. It's a special set of rules that is activated only if the opponent is clearly trying to NOT play. It is never activated when the opponent, computer or human, really plays chess.

Pablo himself has posted some example games against Tiger and admitted it is the ONLY program that did not fall into his strategic trap. At some point the program decides that enough is enough, breaks into the opponent's position with a sacrifice and slaughter him.

You can search the archives if you want to see it.

You are entitled to your opinion about Chess Tiger (apparantly NOT) not being competitive these days, but the only one who really knows is me.
No offense meant.


Bold Lettering mine: Parentheses Mine

Nimzovik responds:


Heh heh....You and the rating lists..... No need to get defensive tho Mr. Christophe Theron..... Your contribution to chess is acknowledged. To put it in Sports terms I would say you are the ----- Howard Cosell ----of chess.................

The Moderators Speak

Let me make this crystal clear. Given the choice of having CT posting here, or you, most of us, myself included, would rather have Christophe. Please stop with these snide comments before we stop you, permanently.

Bold lettering Mine.

Nimzoviks responds.

Welllll...........comparing and contrasting these posts it is quite revealing the philosophy (or lack there of) of the Moderators here.

In view of the permitted heinous rampant slurs against the Chrsistian religion, I therefore I consider it an honor to be banned - permanently form your Forum. I hope I have made myself crystal clear-yes? Please dear moderators assure this happens immediately. Thank you for your attention in this regard.
So instead of acting like an adult, you want to act like a petulant kid and run away? Feel free...

User avatar
tiger
Posts: 819
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 2:15 am
Location: Guadeloupe (french caribbean island)
Contact:

Re: Taming the Tiger :-)

Post by tiger » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:52 am

bob wrote:
Nimzovik wrote:DE VOS Walter



Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Posts: 368
Location: Belgium
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:17 am Post subject: Re: HOUDINI No Fear! If you are with God you are going to wi

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

lucasart wrote:
Father wrote:
Houdini 1.5a x64 SSE42 (6 cores): 17.3 plies; 15.456kN/s Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 970 @ 3.20GHz 4043MHz

April 7,2011. Day's San Juan Bautista De La Salle (1651-1719).

Teacher & Professor of the Love of Jesus, San Juan Bautista De La Salle. With all respect as a pray, I give you and to our God of love, 292 years after your last day in the Blue Earth planet, a Sunday, the day of the Lord, this little game against the technology and the science, as a little probe that the power of love if over all, because of, at the end, only the love will be alive for ever in the sky, far away of the hate and the hell. Please help us, all the countries in this days of darkness’s and wars, when the vanities looks in the chairs of many goberments.Please tall to God, that give to us the humanities and human race, the reconciliation, the justice, and the pardon, as a unique technique to search the peace.

Salutes to Mister Houdini, the top of magicians.



What's all this God nonsense got to do with chess ? Sorry for my atheist remark, but believing that a 1700 elo player beats Houdini in 3 min with 0 seconds increment is even more absurd than believing in God...


Those God freaks, well they're friendly but, the sh*t they believe has got their minds all shut”_________________

"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike."


Bold Lettering Mine Italics mine.






Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 11799
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Taming the Tiger :-)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nimzovik wrote:
Christophe Theron wrote:

There is no loss of strength. It's a special set of rules that is activated only if the opponent is clearly trying to NOT play. It is never activated when the opponent, computer or human, really plays chess.

Pablo himself has posted some example games against Tiger and admitted it is the ONLY program that did not fall into his strategic trap. At some point the program decides that enough is enough, breaks into the opponent's position with a sacrifice and slaughter him.

You can search the archives if you want to see it.

You are entitled to your opinion about Chess Tiger (apparantly NOT) not being competitive these days, but the only one who really knows is me.
No offense meant.


Bold Lettering mine: Parentheses Mine

Nimzovik responds:


Heh heh....You and the rating lists..... No need to get defensive tho Mr. Christophe Theron..... Your contribution to chess is acknowledged. To put it in Sports terms I would say you are the ----- Howard Cosell ----of chess.................

The Moderators Speak

Let me make this crystal clear. Given the choice of having CT posting here, or you, most of us, myself included, would rather have Christophe. Please stop with these snide comments before we stop you, permanently.

Bold lettering Mine.

Nimzoviks responds.

Welllll...........comparing and contrasting these posts it is quite revealing the philosophy (or lack there of) of the Moderators here.

In view of the permitted heinous rampant slurs against the Chrsistian religion, I therefore I consider it an honor to be banned - permanently form your Forum. I hope I have made myself crystal clear-yes? Please dear moderators assure this happens immediately. Thank you for your attention in this regard.
So instead of acting like an adult, you want to act like a petulant kid and run away? Feel free...

Troll season? So early in the year...?


// Christophe

Sean Evans
Posts: 1777
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Taming the Tiger :-)

Post by Sean Evans » Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:40 am

tiger wrote: You are entitled to your opinion about Chess Tiger not being competitive these days, but the only one who really knows is me. Christophe
Your IPOD version of CT states it plays "World Class Chess" it correctly does not state it is the world champion or has ever been world champion. Everyone knows CT is a strong program, which there are many; however, CT is not competitive against programs like Rybka in a match tournament.

If your program is competitive against Rybka et al then why do you not play in the WCCC? God knows we need more original programs playing instead of these derivative/clone bots.

Cordially,

Sean Evans :)

User avatar
tiger
Posts: 819
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Location: Guadeloupe (french caribbean island)
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Re: Taming the Tiger :-)

Post by tiger » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:22 am

Sean Evans wrote:
tiger wrote: You are entitled to your opinion about Chess Tiger not being competitive these days, but the only one who really knows is me. Christophe
Your IPOD version of CT states it plays "World Class Chess" it correctly does not state it is the world champion or has ever been world champion. Everyone knows CT is a strong program, which there are many; however, CT is not competitive against programs like Rybka in a match tournament.

If your program is competitive against Rybka et al then why do you not play in the WCCC? God knows we need more original programs playing instead of these derivative/clone bots.

Cordially,

Sean Evans :)

Rybwhat? Has this thing already been allowed to enter the next WCCC?

Here are the main characteristics of the strongest engines in the world in the coming years:
- free (as in free beer, not free as "open")
and
- illegal (by Copyright infringment of either GPL code AND proprietary reverse-engineered code)

From now on, no amount of hard work or regulation will ever change this.

If the organizers of the official WCCC manage to get rid of illegal programs, great. I have put my name with many others in support of such an effort.

But then people will consider these events as irrelevant because the strongest programs, illegal as they are, have been rejected.

Does it answer your question?


// Christophe

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Eelco de Groot
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Re: Taming the Tiger :-)

Post by Eelco de Groot » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:26 pm

Closed source engines of suspect origin are not really the problem, because they can be decompiled if necessary. That is why there was a Strelka, and a Robbolito. In that sense they were also part of the solution. Clones marginalize the business end but that happens from the open source end too. That is also a sign that the field is maturing. Commercial programs of suspect origin that can be purchased face this risk of decompilation and consequently legal action. The problem in my opinion is with cloudservices if that ever takes off. I don't think it will ever be more than a marginal business, but maybe the problem is more with participation in events of such programs. I think we will find these kind of programs are not really interested in competitions anymore when they have to provide a copy of their software. Even in the case of perfectly legal software, they may judge that too much of a risk. But on the other hand, a clean bill of health may be good for advertizing.

Eelco
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan

User avatar
tiger
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Re: Taming the Tiger :-)

Post by tiger » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:57 am

Eelco de Groot wrote:Closed source engines of suspect origin are not really the problem, because they can be decompiled if necessary. That is why there was a Strelka, and a Robbolito. In that sense they were also part of the solution. Clones marginalize the business end but that happens from the open source end too. That is also a sign that the field is maturing. Commercial programs of suspect origin that can be purchased face this risk of decompilation and consequently legal action. The problem in my opinion is with cloudservices if that ever takes off. I don't think it will ever be more than a marginal business, but maybe the problem is more with participation in events of such programs. I think we will find these kind of programs are not really interested in competitions anymore when they have to provide a copy of their software. Even in the case of perfectly legal software, they may judge that too much of a risk. But on the other hand, a clean bill of health may be good for advertizing.

Eelco

It took 6 years for complains about the origin or Rybka to be taken into account, and we are not at the end of it.

So "can be decompiled if necessary" sounds like science-fiction to me.

If anything, I have learned that times have changed and that there is no sherif in town anymore.


// Christophe

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