CENT is a computer-computer tournament starting from (mostly strategic) endgame positions only. The goal of CENT is to measure the end game playing strength in comparison with the CCRL and CEGT rating lists, if the order is going to fluctuate and with how much. For engine authors it may serve as an inspiration to improve in this area.
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http://rebel13.nl/misc/cent.html
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Sub Pool is started first. With its 4 participants (only) producing just 252 games it will be finished in a couple of days. Thereafter the Main Pool will start, approx. duration 20-24 days.
Aside from the official live support there is a more neutral way of following the games.
http://www.top-5000.nl/pgn4web/live1.html
It's my intention to make this freeware.
MATCH is a web utility to broadcast computer engine-engine matches live on the internet. With MATCH you can broadcast up to 4 comp-comp matches at same time live on the internet. Owners with a webspace plus a text editor and a minimum of HTML knowledge can setup such live matches in a relative short time. MATCH will work with interfaces that support the following 2 features as shown in the screenshot of Arena (Options -> Appearance -> PGN). More...
CENT - Sub Pool started
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
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- Posts: 7025
- Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:04 pm
- Full name: Ed Schröder
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- Posts: 7025
- Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:04 pm
- Full name: Ed Schröder
Re: CENT - Sub Pool started
Winner of the Sub-Pool is WaDuuttie, congrats Maarten.
http://rebel13.nl/misc/cent.html#subpool
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No. Engine 1 2 3 4 Score [%]
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1 WaDuuttie xxxx 21.5 22.5 31.0 75.0 / 126 (59.5%)
2 Texel 1.06a45 20.5 xxxx 21.5 31.0 73.0 / 126 (57.9%)
3 Hannibal1.5x64 19.5 20.5 xxxx 30.0 70.0 / 126 (55.5%)
4 Zurichess 11.0 11.0 12.0 xxxx 34.0 / 126 (26.9%)
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- Posts: 6808
- Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
- Location: Gutweiler, Germany
- Full name: Frank Quisinsky
Re: CENT - Sub Pool started
Hi Ed,
I don't need CEGT and CCRL (have more games with 1 Core as both togehter with 1 Core and TOP-57) ...
Have it ...
Easy to create with a database each one against each other 50 games ...
Here the Rating List from move number 100-299 ... with around 6% errorbar (means games with move number before 100 ... games endgames started much earlier). But enough games I have and the error margin have all 55 engines. So the ratings are good (not very good, but good).
You can see how strong Tornado, Scorpio or Bobcat and EXchess (different engines plays a fantastic endgame) are in endgames comparing to the other playing phases.
Have fun with your new idea.
I am watching the results (like it to compare a bit with my own work).
Interesting is:
In endgames the Elo range between the TOP-55 is ...
ONLY 244 Elo !!!!!
I don't need CEGT and CCRL (have more games with 1 Core as both togehter with 1 Core and TOP-57) ...
Have it ...
Easy to create with a database each one against each other 50 games ...
Here the Rating List from move number 100-299 ... with around 6% errorbar (means games with move number before 100 ... games endgames started much earlier). But enough games I have and the error margin have all 55 engines. So the ratings are good (not very good, but good).
You can see how strong Tornado, Scorpio or Bobcat and EXchess (different engines plays a fantastic endgame) are in endgames comparing to the other playing phases.
Have fun with your new idea.
I am watching the results (like it to compare a bit with my own work).
Interesting is:
In endgames the Elo range between the TOP-55 is ...
ONLY 244 Elo !!!!!
Code: Select all
FCP Rating List
Each one against each other!
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Date : May 12th, 2016 (05:00)
Games : 77.000 / 20.470 = 26.584%
Move Number : 100 - 299
Version : 4.10
Elo average : 2816
Elo range : 244.41
Conditions : http://www.amateurschach.de/main/_conditions.htm
Generated with : Ordo 1.2.6 x64 (Ratings for chess and other games)
Ordo_126-x64.exe -a 2816 -p 299.pgn -o ordo126.txt -b columns.txt -N2 -QEWDV -U "0,1,4,5,7,8,9,3,10,2,11,12,14" -s1000
https://sites.google.com/site/gaviotachessengine/ordo
by Miguel A. Ballicora (Argentina)
# Player : Elo Games Score% won draw lost Points Draw% Error OppAvg OppE OppD
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1 Komodo 9.42 x64 : 2976.77 448 67.9 175 258 15 304.0 57.6 20.44 2840.17 14.47 46.2
2 Stockfish 24Apr2016 BMI2 x64 : 2966.08 541 67.0 186 353 2 362.5 65.2 18.17 2835.89 14.53 49.3
3 Houdini 4 STD B x64 : 2952.02 803 65.9 289 480 34 529.0 59.8 14.77 2832.32 14.55 50.0
4 Fire 4 x64 : 2928.00 686 63.2 213 441 32 433.5 64.3 16.24 2829.42 14.44 50.7
5 GullChess 3.0 BMI2 x64 : 2912.68 638 61.4 178 428 32 392.0 67.1 16.31 2828.21 14.39 50.1
6 Fritz 15 x64 : 2890.77 683 58.6 166 469 48 400.5 68.7 15.44 2828.04 14.39 50.9
7 Equinox 3.30 x64 : 2888.63 697 58.6 176 465 56 408.5 66.7 14.97 2825.14 14.40 51.9
8 Nirvanachess 2.2 POP x64 : 2886.17 774 58.6 217 473 84 453.5 61.1 14.73 2823.87 14.29 52.0
9 Andscacs 0.86 POP x64 : 2881.81 647 57.4 148 447 52 371.5 69.1 15.64 2828.01 14.39 50.4
10 Protector 1.9.0 x64 : 2880.16 697 57.7 170 464 63 402.0 66.6 14.74 2824.38 14.35 52.0
11 Hannibal 1.5 x64 : 2876.12 872 58.2 248 519 105 507.5 59.5 13.22 2816.97 14.27 53.2
12 Critter 1.6a x64 : 2870.87 714 56.0 144 512 58 400.0 71.7 14.37 2826.82 14.41 51.7
13 Naum 4.6 x64 : 2869.20 778 57.7 189 520 69 449.0 66.8 13.88 2813.53 14.23 53.1
14 Chiron 2.0 x64 : 2855.28 672 54.8 145 447 80 368.5 66.5 15.29 2820.14 14.33 53.3
15 iCE 3.0 v658 POP x64 : 2855.07 647 54.0 131 437 79 349.5 67.5 14.74 2825.77 14.37 51.8
16 SmarThink 1.80 AVX x64 : 2852.97 820 56.3 176 571 73 461.5 69.6 13.25 2808.47 14.18 52.8
17 Texel 1.05 x64 : 2852.19 778 53.6 166 502 110 417.0 64.5 13.47 2826.51 14.45 52.5
18 Senpai 1.0 SSE42 x64 : 2835.21 740 53.1 154 478 108 393.0 64.6 14.00 2813.08 14.25 53.3
19 Hiarcs 14 WCSC w32 : 2825.81 727 51.8 117 519 91 376.5 71.4 14.18 2813.15 14.12 52.5
20 Shredder 12 x64 : 2825.10 735 51.8 125 511 99 380.5 69.5 14.34 2812.87 14.23 53.6
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21 DiscoCheck 5.2.1 x64 : 2818.07 981 51.6 163 686 132 506.0 69.9 11.94 2807.10 14.20 53.1
22 Spike 1.4 Leiden w32 : 2815.75 734 50.9 135 477 122 373.5 65.0 14.74 2809.88 14.06 52.3
23 Booot 5.2.0 x64 : 2815.53 805 50.4 151 510 144 406.0 63.4 13.20 2812.24 14.20 53.2
24 Junior 13.3.00 x64 : 2814.45 687 50.6 134 427 126 347.5 62.2 14.40 2810.63 14.15 52.5
25 Fizbo 1.6 x64 : 2811.99 697 49.5 96 498 103 345.0 71.4 14.63 2815.42 14.26 52.7
26 Vajolet2 2.1 POP x64 : 2808.99 823 49.3 130 552 141 406.0 67.1 13.16 2814.31 14.26 53.3
27 Scorpio 2.77 JA POP x64 : 2802.97 653 50.6 93 475 85 330.5 72.7 14.66 2799.20 14.07 50.3
28 Bobcat 7.1 x64 : 2802.62 698 49.6 117 459 122 346.5 65.8 14.18 2805.88 14.10 52.2
29 Tornado 5.0 SSE4 x64 : 2801.93 690 49.6 108 468 114 342.0 67.8 13.78 2806.16 14.07 51.9
30 Zappa Mexico II x64 : 2793.29 805 47.7 99 570 136 384.0 70.8 13.10 2809.96 14.20 53.0
31 Cheng 4.39 x64 : 2789.75 773 46.2 102 511 160 357.5 66.1 13.29 2816.79 14.23 53.0
32 EXchess 7.88b x64 : 2787.66 716 47.3 111 456 149 339.0 63.7 13.78 2807.45 14.13 52.5
33 Doch 1.3.4 JA x64 : 2785.57 690 46.2 99 439 152 318.5 63.6 14.45 2814.08 14.21 53.5
34 Arasan 18.3 POP x64 : 2783.32 825 46.0 109 541 175 379.5 65.6 13.06 2812.89 14.25 53.1
35 Quazar 0.4 x64 : 2782.77 1025 45.9 101 739 185 470.5 72.1 11.93 2812.83 14.26 53.6
36 Dirty 03NOV2015 POP x64 : 2782.29 822 46.0 115 526 181 378.0 64.0 12.96 2811.73 14.24 53.0
37 Sjeng c't 2010 w32 : 2781.29 699 45.7 98 443 158 319.5 63.4 14.52 2812.22 14.13 52.1
38 Crafty 25.0.1 JA POP x64 : 2780.04 766 46.7 90 536 140 358.0 70.0 13.55 2804.21 14.17 52.1
39 Hakkapeliitta 3.0 x64 : 2776.86 751 44.3 88 489 174 332.5 65.1 13.94 2818.41 14.24 53.0
40 Deuterium 14.3.34.130 POP x64 : 2774.17 647 44.4 82 410 155 287.0 63.4 14.76 2814.92 14.27 53.2
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41 Pedone 1.2 BMI2 x64 : 2774.02 865 45.8 107 579 179 396.5 66.9 12.78 2804.58 14.16 51.5
42 The Baron 3.29 x64 : 2772.91 592 46.3 71 406 115 274.0 68.6 15.53 2800.89 14.11 50.5
43 Gaviota 1.0 AVX x64 : 2771.37 724 45.2 93 468 163 327.0 64.6 13.54 2806.76 14.17 52.1
44 Atlas 3.80 x64 : 2769.50 745 44.4 89 484 172 331.0 65.0 14.15 2810.60 14.12 52.5
45 GNU Chess5 5.60 x64 : 2767.65 702 44.7 77 473 152 313.5 67.4 14.35 2806.87 14.17 52.4
46 TogaII 280513 Intel w32 : 2766.22 734 44.2 84 481 169 324.5 65.5 13.81 2808.64 14.14 52.8
47 DisasterArea 1.54 x64 : 2765.10 766 44.5 81 520 165 341.0 67.9 13.07 2805.34 14.14 51.7
48 Spark 1.0 x64 : 2762.39 777 43.6 75 527 175 338.5 67.8 14.53 2809.40 14.12 52.6
49 Thinker 5.4d Inert x64 : 2761.60 754 43.2 72 507 175 325.5 67.2 13.98 2811.52 14.21 52.3
50 Rodent II 0.8.7 x64 : 2756.80 682 43.1 79 430 173 294.0 63.0 14.52 2807.36 14.13 52.3
51 Glaurung 2.2 JA x64 : 2746.43 711 41.2 53 480 178 293.0 67.5 14.11 2811.13 14.14 51.9
52 Murka 3 x64 : 2743.02 740 40.9 77 452 211 303.0 61.1 14.19 2809.39 14.11 52.3
53 Nemo 1.01 Beta POP x64 : 2742.72 719 40.9 66 456 197 294.0 63.4 14.59 2809.18 14.11 52.4
54 BugChess2 1.9 POP x64 : 2740.17 640 41.3 66 397 177 264.5 62.0 15.17 2804.19 14.07 50.8
55 Octochess r5190 SSE4 x64 : 2733.52 698 40.3 60 443 195 281.5 63.5 15.18 2804.79 14.10 51.7
56 Rhetoric 1.4.3 POP x64 : 2732.36 707 39.8 64 435 208 281.5 61.5 14.83 2806.99 14.08 51.6
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White advantage = 9.15 +/- 1.41
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 70.62 % +/- 0.35
Games : 20470 (finished)
White Wins : 3582 (17.5 %)
Black Wins : 3366 (16.4 %)
Draws : 13522 (66.1 %)
Unfinished : 0
White Score : 50.5 %
Black Score : 49.5 %
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- Posts: 7025
- Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:04 pm
- Full name: Ed Schröder
Re: CENT - Sub Pool started
Hi Frank,
Also with my choices for the 21 start positions it simply favors weaker rated engines
I believe it and much depends on the start positions. Look at the ELO of the sub-pool.Frank Quisinsky wrote:Hi Ed,
Interesting is:
In endgames the Elo range between the TOP-55 is ...
ONLY 244 Elo !!!!!
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# PLAYER : RATING POINTS PLAYED (%) ELO
1 WaDuuttie : 2951.7 75.0 126 60 -5
2 Texel 1.06a45 : 2942.1 73.0 126 58 -73
3 Hannibal1.5x64 : 2929.1 70.0 126 56 -117
4 Zurichess : 2755.2 34.0 126 27 +194
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- Posts: 6808
- Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:16 pm
- Location: Gutweiler, Germany
- Full name: Frank Quisinsky
Re: CENT - Sub Pool started
Hi Ed,
yes, much weaker engines can make the points vs. Elo-Gigantics and it's nice to see that.
Shortly:
I think my endgame list is fine but not perfect !!!
My Rating List is with 4-pieces endgame table-bases ... the problem!
Best solution is to start a Rating-List without resign mode (have it) and without endgame databases (the mistake I made). But it's to late for it to changed that.
So, what I produced with move-number calculation is a good indication for "good or better" ... in endgames, not more not less.
Have fun with CENT.
The idea is good.
Best
Frank
yes, much weaker engines can make the points vs. Elo-Gigantics and it's nice to see that.
Shortly:
I think my endgame list is fine but not perfect !!!
My Rating List is with 4-pieces endgame table-bases ... the problem!
Best solution is to start a Rating-List without resign mode (have it) and without endgame databases (the mistake I made). But it's to late for it to changed that.
So, what I produced with move-number calculation is a good indication for "good or better" ... in endgames, not more not less.
Have fun with CENT.
The idea is good.
Best
Frank
Last edited by Frank Quisinsky on Tue May 17, 2016 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- Posts: 106
- Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 10:08 am
- Location: Near Nijmegen
Re: CENT - Sub Pool started
Thank you Ed for the tournament. I'll try to find some time to interpret the results.Rebel wrote:Winner of the Sub-Pool is WaDuuttie, congrats Maarten.
Nothing is unstable (Lawrence Krauss)
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- Posts: 7025
- Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:04 pm
- Full name: Ed Schröder
CENT - MAIN Pool started
CENT - MAIN Pool started
Start ELO ratings according to the CCRL 40/40 rating list (1 cpu) of April 29, 2016.
Start ELO ratings according to the CCRL 40/40 rating list (1 cpu) of April 29, 2016.
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Stockfish 3250
Komodo 3250
Gull 3126
Equinox 3095
Andscacs 3095
Rybka 3088
Nirvanachess 3069
iCE 3050
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- Posts: 7025
- Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:04 pm
- Full name: Ed Schröder
Re: CENT - MAIN Pool started
Reviewing some of the positions.
[d]8/5pk1/r5pp/P7/3R3P/6P1/5PK1/8 w - - 0 1
1927 Alekhine won the 34th game in the battle vs Capablanca to become World Champion. He did it by playing 1.Ra4! in the above position. Black's rook has to block the pawn and white has at his disposal an endless reserve of rook moves along the a-file. Again, the future for black spells "Zugzwang". The general rule is that a passed pawn should be supported by a rook from the rear. That's why ideas of 1.Rd5? are wrong. This is a knowledge that have to be implemented in many chessprograms. I have seen numerous examples of trying to support such a pawn sideways. What would your favourite program play? -- Annotator Sune Larsson
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None of the engines played 1.Ra4 but 1.Rd5 instead and yet the 12 games ended in favor for with with a 10½-1½ score. This begs the question if the game is a technical draw after 1.Rd5
[d]8/5pk1/r5pp/P7/3R3P/6P1/5PK1/8 w - - 0 1
1927 Alekhine won the 34th game in the battle vs Capablanca to become World Champion. He did it by playing 1.Ra4! in the above position. Black's rook has to block the pawn and white has at his disposal an endless reserve of rook moves along the a-file. Again, the future for black spells "Zugzwang". The general rule is that a passed pawn should be supported by a rook from the rear. That's why ideas of 1.Rd5? are wrong. This is a knowledge that have to be implemented in many chessprograms. I have seen numerous examples of trying to support such a pawn sideways. What would your favourite program play? -- Annotator Sune Larsson
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None of the engines played 1.Ra4 but 1.Rd5 instead and yet the 12 games ended in favor for with with a 10½-1½ score. This begs the question if the game is a technical draw after 1.Rd5
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Re: CENT - MAIN Pool started
SF-7 with tablebases:
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30/47 04:38 152,359,672 548,324 +1.84 Rd4d5 Ra6c6 Kg2f3 Kg7f6 h4h5 Kf6e7 Rd5b5 Rc6a6 Kf3e4 Ke7d8 Ke4d4 Kd8d7 Rb5b7+ Kd7e8 h5xg6 f7xg6 Rb7b5 Ke8d7 f2f4 Ra6a8 Kd4c4 Ra8a6 Kc4b4 Kd7c7 Rb5e5 Ra6d6 Kb4b5 h6h5 a5a6 Kc7b8 Kb5a5 Rd6d3 Re5g5 Rd3a3+ Ka5b6
Nothing is unstable (Lawrence Krauss)
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- Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:04 pm
- Full name: Ed Schröder
Re: CENT - MAIN Pool started
[d]8/8/4kpp1/3p1b2/p6P/2B5/6P1/6K1 b - - 0 1
None of the engines did find Shirov's elegant 1...Bh3 giving withe at least some hope for a draw. Curious what the big-boys will do here.
None of the engines did find Shirov's elegant 1...Bh3 giving withe at least some hope for a draw. Curious what the big-boys will do here.