chess 960 engines vs humans

[stavros]

i would like to know if the top engines are even better than humans in 960 chess than
clasical chess,any opinion?

[Modern Times]

Logically I would have thought so, because the human can't rely on memorised opening theory, but if that is true in practice I don't know.

Perhaps the next Komodo vs human match can be chess960.... not that that would answer the question, but it would be good nevertheless

[yurikvelo]

i would like to know if the top engines are even better than humans in 960 chess than
clasical chess,any opinion?

it might depend on rules of classical tournament: what kind of books to allow for machine team.


If define "engine vs human superiority" as minimal amount of CPU resources (speed * time-control) one need to get equivalent ELO strength, or to say "which is the slowest CPU and fastest time control needed to play on par vs human" = than it is highly dependent on book used.
Book is infinite amount of knowledge at zero resource cost, more moves engine play from book - less speed*time-control it need after to play on its own.

[whereagles]

Probably engines will pull off further.

Just look at BrainFish vs other engines. Currently it tops the rankings by ~80 ELO, which is solely due to book prep.

[Vinvin]

i would like to know if the top engines are even better than humans in 960 chess than
clasical chess,any opinion?

In 2006, programs was already stronger than average GMs : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess960#Computers .
Today they probably are way stronger than top GMs as in regular chess.

[yurikvelo]

i would like to know if the top engines are even better than humans in 960 chess than
clasical chess,any opinion?

In 2006, programs was already stronger than average GMs : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess960#Computers .
Today they probably are way stronger than top GMs as in regular chess.

http://www.chesstigers.de/index_news.ph ... rubrik=100

For the first time a computer program managed to win a Chess960 game against a strong grandmaster.
Peter Svidler easily won his match against the Dutch program The Baron from Richard Pijl 1,5-0,5.

In chess960, engines reached the same "human vs machine" 10 years later

[George]

Logically I would have thought so, because the human can't rely on memorised opening theory, but if that is true in practice I don't know.

Perhaps the next Komodo vs human match can be chess960.... not that that would answer the question, but it would be good nevertheless

When we compare standard chess to Chess960 there is only one good logical thing that we have to keep in mind when we use computer versus human, and that is that computer in standard chess uses large opening databases that it is impossible for any super GM like Carlsen or GM Nakamura to memorize ALL the latest opening variations; therefore, computer have a large advantage over humans. In Chess960 Super GM like GM Nakamura that was the last Chess960 Champion have a better chance against Komodo than in standard chess simply relying on vast chess opening principles.

[rcmaddox]

Logically I would have thought so, because the human can't rely on memorised opening theory, but if that is true in practice I don't know.

Perhaps the next Komodo vs human match can be chess960.... not that that would answer the question, but it would be good nevertheless

When we compare standard chess to Chess960 there is only one good logical thing that we have to keep in mind when we use computer versus human, and that is that computer in standard chess uses large opening databases that it is impossible for any super GM like Carlsen or GM Nakamura to memorize ALL the latest opening variations; therefore, computer have a large advantage over humans. In Chess960 Super GM like GM Nakamura that was the last Chess960 Champion have a better chance against Komodo than in standard chess simply relying on vast chess opening principles.

I think the exact opposite is true. The GM suffers when his knowledge of opening theory is thrown out the window. In fact, I think Deep Blue would have mauled Kasparov in '96 if Chess 960 had been played.

Just my opinion, of course, which obviously I can't prove.

[Dirt]

When we compare standard chess to Chess960 there is only one good logical thing that we have to keep in mind when we use computer versus human, and that is that computer in standard chess uses large opening databases that it is impossible for any super GM like Carlsen or GM Nakamura to memorize ALL the latest opening variations; therefore, computer have a large advantage over humans. In Chess960 Super GM like GM Nakamura that was the last Chess960 Champion have a better chance against Komodo than in standard chess simply relying on vast chess opening principles.

The FRC openings may not be known as deeply as those of standard chess, but there are already large databases of them. Engines can access that data in an instant while GMs struggle to learn a small part of them.

[George]

When we compare standard chess to Chess960 there is only one good logical thing that we have to keep in mind when we use computer versus human, and that is that computer in standard chess uses large opening databases that it is impossible for any super GM like Carlsen or GM Nakamura to memorize ALL the latest opening variations; therefore, computer have a large advantage over humans. In Chess960 Super GM like GM Nakamura that was the last Chess960 Champion have a better chance against Komodo than in standard chess simply relying on vast chess opening principles.

The FRC openings may not be known as deeply as those of standard chess, but there are already large databases of them. Engines can access that data in an instant while GMs struggle to learn a small part of them.

When there is only one set position as it is in standard chess the opening databases is more complete for almost all kinds of openings even the 1.h3 Clemenz opening, whereas with so many positions in FRC the openings is NOT even 10% explored with all different variations that can be created by humans GM. Therefore, humans GM have a greater chance of coming up with and even chance from the very opening without having to memorize all the possibilities.