Kasparov vs The World

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bstjean
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:10 pm
Location: Montreal
Full name: Benoît St-Jean

Kasparov vs The World

Post by bstjean »

I came across the 1999 game Kasparov vs The World and was curious as to what is the definitive answer to all the proposed solutions for the position after move 58.g6

8/6K1/6P1/3p4/3Q4/5q2/8/1k6 b - - 0 58

At the time, Kasparov published a 25-pages analysis while Irina Krush argued that 58...Qf5 gave reasonable chances to Black. Many argued Qf5 could save the game, Kasparov responded with more analysis, more GMs published more analysis, Kasparov published more analysis...

Well, since I don't have tablebases, I thought this was a perfect case for a definitive answer with the help of endgame databases!

So what's the best Black move in this position? 58...Qe4 was played in the game, most commentators suggested 58...Qf5
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zenpawn
Posts: 349
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:31 pm
Location: United States

Re: Kasparov vs The World

Post by zenpawn »

The endgame tablebase at http://chessok.com/?page_id=361 indeed gives 58...Qf5 as the move to play, but it's still a mate in 79 for White.
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bstjean
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:10 pm
Location: Montreal
Full name: Benoît St-Jean

Re: Kasparov vs The World

Post by bstjean »

Many thanks! I didn't know that website!!!!
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Vinvin
Posts: 5228
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:40 am
Full name: Vincent Lejeune

Re: Kasparov vs The World

Post by Vinvin »

bstjean wrote:Many thanks! I didn't know that website!!!!
Here, you can even probe 7 pieces : http://tb7.chessok.com/probe
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kliles
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:35 pm
Location: Toronto Canada

Re: Kasparov vs The World

Post by kliles »

Hello Benoit! I remember following that game in (more or less) real time and recall very clearly the excitement when Irina's suggestion was pretty much ignored - if I recall it was due to some issues she had posting the information in the correct place or timeframe... Anyway, I have the book about that match buried around here somewhere in my archives - I will now have to dig it out and go through the book again!

Thanks for the trip down memory lane...
regards,

Kerry
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kgburcham
Posts: 2016
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:19 pm

Re: Kasparov vs The World

Post by kgburcham »

[D] 8/6K1/6P1/3p4/3Q4/5q2/8/1k6 b - -

Nalimov 6 men EGTB available - 512 MB cache
Engine: Houdini 5.01 Pro x64-pext (8192 MB)
by Robert Houdart
8 threads used
13/41 0:00 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Kc1 3.Qc6+ Kd2 4.Kg8 Qc4 5.Qe6 Qe4 6.Kf7 Qf4+ 7.Qf6 Qc7+ 8.Ke6 Qb6+ 9.Ke7 Qc7+ 10.Kf8 Qc5+ 11.Kg8 Qc8+ 12.Kh7 Qh3+ 13.Kg7 Kd3 14.Qa6+ Ke4 (2.793.307) 27119 TB:1
14/49 0:00 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Kc2 3.Kf7 Qf5+ 4.Qf6 Qd7+ 5.Kf8 Qc8+ 6.Ke7 Qb7+ 7.Ke6 Qa6+ 8.Kf7 Qa7+ 9.Qe7 Qf2+ 10.Kg8 d4 11.Qc5+ Kd3 12.g7 Qf4 13.Qb6 (5.072.414) 28337 TB:1
15/57 0:00 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Kc2 3.Kf7 Qf5+ 4.Qf6 Qd7+ 5.Kf8 d4 6.g7 Qc8+ 7.Kf7 Qd7+ 8.Kg6 Qe8+ 9.Kh7 Qd7 10.Kh6 Qh3+ 11.Kg6 Qg3+ 12.Kh7 (22.074.032) 28968 TB:1
16/57 0:00 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Kc2 3.Kf7 Qf5+ 4.Qf6 Qd7+ 5.Kf8 Qc8+ 6.Ke7 Qb7+ 7.Ke6 Qa6+ 8.Kf7 Qa7+ 9.Qe7 Qf2+ 10.Ke8 Qf5 11.g7 Qg6+ 12.Kd7 Kd2 13.Qe5 (25.317.252) 29268 TB:1
17/67 0:01 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Ka1 3.Kf7 d4 4.Qa5+ Kb2 5.Qb5+ Ka1 6.g7 Qf3+ 7.Ke7 Qe4+ 8.Kf6 Qf3+ 9.Kg6 Qe4+ 10.Qf5 Qc6+ 11.Kg5 Qg2+ 12.Qg4 Qd5+ 13.Kh6 Qc6+ 14.Qg6 Qc1+ (49.128.830) 29721 TB:1
18/67 0:01 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Ka1 3.Kf7 d4 4.Qa5+ Kb2 5.Qb5+ Ka1 6.g7 Qf3+ 7.Ke7 Qe4+ 8.Kf6 Qf3+ 9.Qf5 Qc6+ 10.Qe6 Qf3+ 11.Kg6 Qg3+ 12.Kh7 Qh4+ 13.Qh6 Qe4+ 14.Kh8 Qe5 (58.718.259) 30081 TB:1
18/67 0:02 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Ka2 3.Qf2+ Ka1 4.Kf6 d4 5.Qf1+ Kb2 6.Qb5+ Ka1 7.g7 Qf3+ 8.Ke7 Qe4+ 9.Kf7 Qf3+ 10.Kg6 Qe4+ 11.Qf5 Qg2+ 12.Kf6 Qc6+ 13.Kg5 Qg2+ 14.Qg4 Qd5+ (79.450.985) 30209 TB:1
19/67 0:03 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Ka2 3.Kf6 Qf4+ 4.Ke7 Qe5+ 5.Qe6 Qc7+ 6.Kf6 Qf4+ 7.Kg7 Qc7+ 8.Kh6 Qf4+ 9.Kh5 Qh2+ 10.Kg5 Qg3+ 11.Kf5 Qf3+ 12.Ke5 Kb2 13.Qb6+ Ka2 14.Qd4 Qg3+ (117.154.979) 30830 TB:1
20/70 0:06 +M79 1...Qe4 (197.350.208) 32252 TB:1
20/70 0:07 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ (234.544.441) 32675 TB:1
20/70 0:07 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Kc1 3.Kf7 Qf4+ 4.Ke7 Qe4+ 5.Qe6 Qd4 6.Qf5 Qc5+ 7.Ke6 Qc6+ 8.Ke5 Qc3+ 9.Kxd5 Qa5+ 10.Ke4 Qe1+ 11.Kf3 Qh1+ 12.Kg4 Qg1+ 13.Kf4 Qh2+ 14.Kg5 Qg3+ (253.887.581) 32827 TB:1
20/70 0:08 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Kc1 3.Kf7 Qf4+ 4.Ke7 Qe4+ 5.Qe6 Qd4 6.Qf5 Qc5+ 7.Ke6 Qc6+ 8.Ke5 Qc3+ 9.Kxd5 Qa5+ 10.Ke4 Qe1+ 11.Kf3 Qh1+ 12.Kg4 Qg1+ 13.Kf4 Qh2+ 14.Kg5 Qg3+ (293.746.429) 33101 TB:1
21/73 0:11 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Ka2 3.Kf6 Qf4+ 4.Ke7 Qe5+ 5.Qe6 Qd4 6.Kd6 Ka3 7.Qxd5 Qf6+ 8.Qe6 Qd4+ 9.Kc7 Qc3+ 10.Kd7 Kb2 11.Qe2+ Ka1 12.Qa6+ Kb2 13.Qb5+ Ka3 14.Qf5 Qd4+ (403.003.310) 34043 TB:1
21/73 0:12 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Ka2 3.Kf6 Qf4+ 4.Ke7 Qe5+ 5.Qe6 Qd4 6.Kd6 Ka3 7.Qxd5 Qf6+ 8.Qe6 Qd4+ 9.Kc7 Qc3+ 10.Kd7 Kb2 11.Qe2+ Ka1 12.Qa6+ Kb2 13.Qb5+ Ka3 14.Qf5 Qd4+ (429.973.041) 34288 TB:1
22/73 0:14 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ (522.988.112) 34963 TB:1
22/73 0:15 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ (555.070.810) 35093 TB:1
22/73 0:15 +M79 1...Qf5 2.Kh6 Qe6 3.Qg1+ Kb2 4.Qf2+ Kb1 5.Qf3 d4 6.Qd1+ Ka2 7.Qxd4 Qh3+ 8.Kg7 Qe6 9.Qf2+ Kb1 10.Qf1+ Kc2 11.Qg2+ Kb1 12.Kh7 Qf5 13.Qb7+ Ka1 14.Qc6 Qh3+ (559.645.702) 35118 TB:1
23/73 0:16 +M79 1...Qf5 2.Kh6 Qe6 3.Qg1+ Kb2 4.Qf2+ Kb1 5.Qf3 d4 6.Qd1+ Ka2 7.Qxd4 Qh3+ 8.Kg7 Qe6 9.Qf2+ Kb1 10.Qf1+ Kc2 11.Qg2+ Kb1 12.Kh7 Qf5 13.Qb7+ Ka1 14.Qc6 Qh3+ (576.210.947) 35139 TB:1
23/73 0:16 +M79 1...Qf5 2.Kh6 Qe6 3.Qg1+ Kb2 4.Qf2+ Kb1 5.Qf3 d4 6.Qd1+ Ka2 7.Qxd4 Qh3+ 8.Kg7 Qe6 9.Qf2+ Kb1 10.Qf1+ Kc2 11.Qg2+ Kb1 12.Kh7 Qf5 13.Qb7+ Ka1 14.Qc6 Qh3+ (577.553.769) 35126 TB:1
24/73 0:17 +M79 1...Qf5 2.Kh6 Qe6 3.Qg1+ Kb2 4.Qf2+ Kb1 5.Qf3 d4 6.Qd1+ Ka2 7.Qxd4 Qh3+ 8.Kg7 Qe6 9.Qf2+ Kb1 10.Qf1+ Kc2 11.Qg2+ Kb1 12.Kh7 Qf5 13.Qb7+ Ka1 14.Qc6 Qh3+ (624.709.348) 35284 TB:1
24/73 0:17 +M79 1...Qf5 2.Kh6 Qe6 3.Qg1+ Kb2 4.Qf2+ Kb1 5.Qf3 d4 6.Qd1+ Ka2 7.Qxd4 Qh3+ 8.Kg7 Qe6 9.Qf2+ Kb1 10.Qf1+ Kc2 11.Qg2+ Kb1 12.Kh7 Qf5 13.Qb7+ Ka1 14.Qc6 Qh3+ (626.437.176) 35282 TB:1
24/73 0:18 +M79 1...Qf5 2.Kh6 Qe6 3.Qg1+ Kb2 4.Qf2+ Kb1 5.Qf3 d4 6.Qd1+ Ka2 7.Qxd4 Qh3+ 8.Kg7 Qe6 9.Qf2+ Kb1 10.Qf1+ Kc2 11.Qg2+ Kb1 12.Kh7 Qf5 13.Qb7+ Ka1 14.Qc6 Qh3+ (653.268.256) 35351 TB:1
24/73 0:18 +M79 1...Qf5 2.Kh6 Qe6 3.Qg1+ Kb2 4.Qf2+ Kb1 5.Qf3 d4 6.Qd1+ Ka2 7.Qxd4 Qh3+ 8.Kg7 Qe6 9.Qf2+ Kb1 10.Qf1+ Kc2 11.Qg2+ Kb1 12.Kh7 Qf5 13.Qb7+ Ka1 14.Qc6 Qh3+ (670.699.025) 35404 TB:1
25/73 0:19 +M79 1...Qf5 2.Kh6 Qe6 3.Qg1+ Kb2 4.Qf2+ Kb1 5.Qf3 d4 6.Qd1+ Ka2 7.Qxd4 Qh3+ 8.Kg7 Qe6 9.Qf2+ Kb1 10.Qg1+ Kb2 11.Qg2+ Kb1 12.Qf1+ Kc2 13.Qh1 Qd7+ 14.Kh6 Qd2+ (707.300.579) 35428 TB:1
25/85 0:20 +M79 1...Qf5 2.Kh6 Qe6 3.Qg1+ Kb2 4.Qf2+ Kb1 5.Qf3 d4 6.Qd1+ Ka2 7.Qxd4 Qh3+ 8.Kg7 Qe6 9.Qf2+ Kb1 10.Qg1+ Kb2 11.Qg2+ Kb1 12.Qf1+ Kc2 13.Qh1 Qd7+ 14.Kh6 Qd2+ (733.614.396) 35484 TB:1
no chess program was born totally from one mind. all chess programs have many ideas from many minds.
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Colin-G
Posts: 191
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:30 pm
Location: England

Re: Kasparov vs The World

Post by Colin-G »

kgburcham wrote:[D] 8/6K1/6P1/3p4/3Q4/5q2/8/1k6 b - -

Nalimov 6 men EGTB available - 512 MB cache
Engine: Houdini 5.01 Pro x64-pext (8192 MB)
by Robert Houdart
8 threads used
13/41 0:00 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Kc1 3.Qc6+ Kd2 4.Kg8 Qc4 5.Qe6 Qe4 6.Kf7 Qf4+ 7.Qf6 Qc7+ 8.Ke6 Qb6+ 9.Ke7 Qc7+ 10.Kf8 Qc5+ 11.Kg8 Qc8+ 12.Kh7 Qh3+ 13.Kg7 Kd3 14.Qa6+ Ke4 (2.793.307) 27119 TB:1
14/49 0:00 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Kc2 3.Kf7 Qf5+ 4.Qf6 Qd7+ 5.Kf8 Qc8+ 6.Ke7 Qb7+ 7.Ke6 Qa6+ 8.Kf7 Qa7+ 9.Qe7 Qf2+ 10.Kg8 d4 11.Qc5+ Kd3 12.g7 Qf4 13.Qb6 (5.072.414) 28337 TB:1
15/57 0:00 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Kc2 3.Kf7 Qf5+ 4.Qf6 Qd7+ 5.Kf8 d4 6.g7 Qc8+ 7.Kf7 Qd7+ 8.Kg6 Qe8+ 9.Kh7 Qd7 10.Kh6 Qh3+ 11.Kg6 Qg3+ 12.Kh7 (22.074.032) 28968 TB:1
16/57 0:00 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Kc2 3.Kf7 Qf5+ 4.Qf6 Qd7+ 5.Kf8 Qc8+ 6.Ke7 Qb7+ 7.Ke6 Qa6+ 8.Kf7 Qa7+ 9.Qe7 Qf2+ 10.Ke8 Qf5 11.g7 Qg6+ 12.Kd7 Kd2 13.Qe5 (25.317.252) 29268 TB:1
17/67 0:01 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Ka1 3.Kf7 d4 4.Qa5+ Kb2 5.Qb5+ Ka1 6.g7 Qf3+ 7.Ke7 Qe4+ 8.Kf6 Qf3+ 9.Kg6 Qe4+ 10.Qf5 Qc6+ 11.Kg5 Qg2+ 12.Qg4 Qd5+ 13.Kh6 Qc6+ 14.Qg6 Qc1+ (49.128.830) 29721 TB:1
18/67 0:01 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Ka1 3.Kf7 d4 4.Qa5+ Kb2 5.Qb5+ Ka1 6.g7 Qf3+ 7.Ke7 Qe4+ 8.Kf6 Qf3+ 9.Qf5 Qc6+ 10.Qe6 Qf3+ 11.Kg6 Qg3+ 12.Kh7 Qh4+ 13.Qh6 Qe4+ 14.Kh8 Qe5 (58.718.259) 30081 TB:1
18/67 0:02 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Ka2 3.Qf2+ Ka1 4.Kf6 d4 5.Qf1+ Kb2 6.Qb5+ Ka1 7.g7 Qf3+ 8.Ke7 Qe4+ 9.Kf7 Qf3+ 10.Kg6 Qe4+ 11.Qf5 Qg2+ 12.Kf6 Qc6+ 13.Kg5 Qg2+ 14.Qg4 Qd5+ (79.450.985) 30209 TB:1
19/67 0:03 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Ka2 3.Kf6 Qf4+ 4.Ke7 Qe5+ 5.Qe6 Qc7+ 6.Kf6 Qf4+ 7.Kg7 Qc7+ 8.Kh6 Qf4+ 9.Kh5 Qh2+ 10.Kg5 Qg3+ 11.Kf5 Qf3+ 12.Ke5 Kb2 13.Qb6+ Ka2 14.Qd4 Qg3+ (117.154.979) 30830 TB:1
20/70 0:06 +M79 1...Qe4 (197.350.208) 32252 TB:1
20/70 0:07 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ (234.544.441) 32675 TB:1
20/70 0:07 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Kc1 3.Kf7 Qf4+ 4.Ke7 Qe4+ 5.Qe6 Qd4 6.Qf5 Qc5+ 7.Ke6 Qc6+ 8.Ke5 Qc3+ 9.Kxd5 Qa5+ 10.Ke4 Qe1+ 11.Kf3 Qh1+ 12.Kg4 Qg1+ 13.Kf4 Qh2+ 14.Kg5 Qg3+ (253.887.581) 32827 TB:1
20/70 0:08 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Kc1 3.Kf7 Qf4+ 4.Ke7 Qe4+ 5.Qe6 Qd4 6.Qf5 Qc5+ 7.Ke6 Qc6+ 8.Ke5 Qc3+ 9.Kxd5 Qa5+ 10.Ke4 Qe1+ 11.Kf3 Qh1+ 12.Kg4 Qg1+ 13.Kf4 Qh2+ 14.Kg5 Qg3+ (293.746.429) 33101 TB:1
21/73 0:11 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Ka2 3.Kf6 Qf4+ 4.Ke7 Qe5+ 5.Qe6 Qd4 6.Kd6 Ka3 7.Qxd5 Qf6+ 8.Qe6 Qd4+ 9.Kc7 Qc3+ 10.Kd7 Kb2 11.Qe2+ Ka1 12.Qa6+ Kb2 13.Qb5+ Ka3 14.Qf5 Qd4+ (403.003.310) 34043 TB:1
21/73 0:12 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ Ka2 3.Kf6 Qf4+ 4.Ke7 Qe5+ 5.Qe6 Qd4 6.Kd6 Ka3 7.Qxd5 Qf6+ 8.Qe6 Qd4+ 9.Kc7 Qc3+ 10.Kd7 Kb2 11.Qe2+ Ka1 12.Qa6+ Kb2 13.Qb5+ Ka3 14.Qf5 Qd4+ (429.973.041) 34288 TB:1
22/73 0:14 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ (522.988.112) 34963 TB:1
22/73 0:15 +M79 1...Qe4 2.Qb6+ (555.070.810) 35093 TB:1
22/73 0:15 +M79 1...Qf5 2.Kh6 Qe6 3.Qg1+ Kb2 4.Qf2+ Kb1 5.Qf3 d4 6.Qd1+ Ka2 7.Qxd4 Qh3+ 8.Kg7 Qe6 9.Qf2+ Kb1 10.Qf1+ Kc2 11.Qg2+ Kb1 12.Kh7 Qf5 13.Qb7+ Ka1 14.Qc6 Qh3+ (559.645.702) 35118 TB:1
23/73 0:16 +M79 1...Qf5 2.Kh6 Qe6 3.Qg1+ Kb2 4.Qf2+ Kb1 5.Qf3 d4 6.Qd1+ Ka2 7.Qxd4 Qh3+ 8.Kg7 Qe6 9.Qf2+ Kb1 10.Qf1+ Kc2 11.Qg2+ Kb1 12.Kh7 Qf5 13.Qb7+ Ka1 14.Qc6 Qh3+ (576.210.947) 35139 TB:1
23/73 0:16 +M79 1...Qf5 2.Kh6 Qe6 3.Qg1+ Kb2 4.Qf2+ Kb1 5.Qf3 d4 6.Qd1+ Ka2 7.Qxd4 Qh3+ 8.Kg7 Qe6 9.Qf2+ Kb1 10.Qf1+ Kc2 11.Qg2+ Kb1 12.Kh7 Qf5 13.Qb7+ Ka1 14.Qc6 Qh3+ (577.553.769) 35126 TB:1
24/73 0:17 +M79 1...Qf5 2.Kh6 Qe6 3.Qg1+ Kb2 4.Qf2+ Kb1 5.Qf3 d4 6.Qd1+ Ka2 7.Qxd4 Qh3+ 8.Kg7 Qe6 9.Qf2+ Kb1 10.Qf1+ Kc2 11.Qg2+ Kb1 12.Kh7 Qf5 13.Qb7+ Ka1 14.Qc6 Qh3+ (624.709.348) 35284 TB:1
24/73 0:17 +M79 1...Qf5 2.Kh6 Qe6 3.Qg1+ Kb2 4.Qf2+ Kb1 5.Qf3 d4 6.Qd1+ Ka2 7.Qxd4 Qh3+ 8.Kg7 Qe6 9.Qf2+ Kb1 10.Qf1+ Kc2 11.Qg2+ Kb1 12.Kh7 Qf5 13.Qb7+ Ka1 14.Qc6 Qh3+ (626.437.176) 35282 TB:1
24/73 0:18 +M79 1...Qf5 2.Kh6 Qe6 3.Qg1+ Kb2 4.Qf2+ Kb1 5.Qf3 d4 6.Qd1+ Ka2 7.Qxd4 Qh3+ 8.Kg7 Qe6 9.Qf2+ Kb1 10.Qf1+ Kc2 11.Qg2+ Kb1 12.Kh7 Qf5 13.Qb7+ Ka1 14.Qc6 Qh3+ (653.268.256) 35351 TB:1
24/73 0:18 +M79 1...Qf5 2.Kh6 Qe6 3.Qg1+ Kb2 4.Qf2+ Kb1 5.Qf3 d4 6.Qd1+ Ka2 7.Qxd4 Qh3+ 8.Kg7 Qe6 9.Qf2+ Kb1 10.Qf1+ Kc2 11.Qg2+ Kb1 12.Kh7 Qf5 13.Qb7+ Ka1 14.Qc6 Qh3+ (670.699.025) 35404 TB:1
25/73 0:19 +M79 1...Qf5 2.Kh6 Qe6 3.Qg1+ Kb2 4.Qf2+ Kb1 5.Qf3 d4 6.Qd1+ Ka2 7.Qxd4 Qh3+ 8.Kg7 Qe6 9.Qf2+ Kb1 10.Qg1+ Kb2 11.Qg2+ Kb1 12.Qf1+ Kc2 13.Qh1 Qd7+ 14.Kh6 Qd2+ (707.300.579) 35428 TB:1
25/85 0:20 +M79 1...Qf5 2.Kh6 Qe6 3.Qg1+ Kb2 4.Qf2+ Kb1 5.Qf3 d4 6.Qd1+ Ka2 7.Qxd4 Qh3+ 8.Kg7 Qe6 9.Qf2+ Kb1 10.Qg1+ Kb2 11.Qg2+ Kb1 12.Qf1+ Kc2 13.Qh1 Qd7+ 14.Kh6 Qd2+ (733.614.396) 35484 TB:1
I only have 5 man syzygy bases but had a look at the position with Stockfish 8.
Although the position is mate in 79 according to the online 6 man bases, something is wrong in your later analysis lines.

After 5.Qf3 the game is drawn according to 6 man online bases
and after 7.Qxd4 the game is drawn according to my 5 man bases
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