Can Komodo give knight odds in chess960 to a master?

Discussion of computer chess matches and engine tournaments.

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What will Komodo score giving N odds in 960 to a master?

Poll ended at Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:10 pm

0 or .5 out of 4.
0
No votes
1 out of 4.
0
No votes
1.5 out of 4.
4
16%
2 out of 4.
6
24%
2.5 out of 4.
5
20%
3 out of 4.
6
24%
3.5 or 4 out of 4.
4
16%
 
Total votes: 25

Modern Times
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Re: Can Komodo give knight odds in chess960 to a master?

Post by Modern Times » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:45 am

lkaufman wrote:
Modern Times wrote:Thanks for organising this match Larry ! Chess960 rocks :)
Since you are probably the person most familiar with chess960 on this site, are there any unusual situations that might come up that require more knowledge than just the basic rules of 960 castling? I was U.S. Open champion of chess 960 around 8 years ago and also gave a simul of chess 960, but I haven't played or watched more than perhaps fifty games so I'm no expert on the 960 positions. Let me know any subtle points I should explain to John Meyer in advance of the match, or if there are any ambiguities in the rules.
I think you are more expert than me with chess960. I'm a rubbish chess player actually :shock:
.

Opinions expressed here are my own, and not necessarily those of the CCRL Group.

JJJ
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Re: Can Komodo give knight odds in chess960 to a master?

Post by JJJ » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:13 am

It would be very interesting if Komodo win, because it might play a higher ranked player after that !

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Laskos
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Re: Can Komodo give knight odds in chess960 to a master?

Post by Laskos » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:36 am

lkaufman wrote:
Laskos wrote:
At Knight-Odds the difference is very large too:

Chess960 Knight-Odds against Fruit
Komodo Contempt=50:
82.0%


Normal Chess Knight-Odds against Fruit:
Komodo Contempt=50:
65.0%


Based on your results, we can estimate that elo differences between engines increase by a bit under 20% playing chess 960. If this applies to the upcoming match, it would make Komodo a modest favorite. But if chess 960 is especially difficult for humans (compared to comparable - level engines), perhaps 3 to 1 would be a good guess. We'll see.
I played more respectable Knight-Odds matches at 10''+0.1'':

Chess960 Knight-Odds against Fruit
Komodo Contempt=50:
74.9%


Normal Chess Knight-Odds against Fruit:
Komodo Contempt=50:
52.0%


Almost 200 ELO points gap difference, which might prove decisive, especially considering that 960 is hard for humans.

And Contempt=50 again came better than Contempt=100. All in all, in my view Komodo is the favorite now. About Contempt, I cannot really gauge what in would need to be against a human at LTC, I would go for 100 against the intention of the human to draw the games. Fruit doesn't use this intention. From the old matches, I was bothered that human was able to draw in the early middlegame because of the too low Contempt of Komodo.

I am keeping mine 3.0/4 prediction for Komodo :D.

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Nordlandia
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Re: Can Komodo give knight odds in chess960 to a master?

Post by Nordlandia » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:25 pm

Do contempt of 75 seem reasonable, considering the psychological dissadvantage of playing human against engines.

Few mediocre moves by Meyer and Komodo might be able to stabilize the position.

lkaufman
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Re: Can Komodo give knight odds in chess960 to a master?

Post by lkaufman » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:35 pm

Nordlandia wrote:Do contempt of 75 seem reasonable, considering the psychological dissadvantage of playing human against engines.

Few mediocre moves by Meyer and Komodo might be able to stabilize the position.
I think a value of 100 (or even a bit more) is good for this match, even if 50 is better against an engine. For one thing, we want to avoid a rep draw if the handicap has been partially recovered.
Komodo rules!

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Laskos
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Re: Can Komodo give knight odds in chess960 to a master?

Post by Laskos » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:46 pm

lkaufman wrote:
Nordlandia wrote:Do contempt of 75 seem reasonable, considering the psychological dissadvantage of playing human against engines.

Few mediocre moves by Meyer and Komodo might be able to stabilize the position.
I think a value of 100 (or even a bit more) is good for this match, even if 50 is better against an engine. For one thing, we want to avoid a rep draw if the handicap has been partially recovered.
Yes, good decision, maybe even 120 is not bad.

Look
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Re: Can Komodo give knight odds in chess960 to a master?

Post by Look » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:55 pm

I guess Komodo could be victorious. Such FRC opening positions are hard to play for human side.
Mehdi Amini
www.my-c-codes.com/

Farewell.

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Nordlandia
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Re: Can Komodo give knight odds in chess960 to a master?

Post by Nordlandia » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:26 pm

Is Larry allowed to reveal the starting positions`?

I suppose castling is allowed :)

lkaufman
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Re: Can Komodo give knight odds in chess960 to a master?

Post by lkaufman » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:19 pm

Nordlandia wrote:Is Larry allowed to reveal the starting positions`?

I suppose castling is allowed :)
Starting positions will be chosen at random about five miuntes before each game; John can be studying the initial position while I set up the computer and the broadcast. Castling will be according to standard chess960 rules. John volunteered that in the unlikely event that normal chess is chosen by lot we'll draw lots again, as it would defeat the purpose of the test.
Komodo rules!

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Nordlandia
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Re: Can Komodo give knight odds in chess960 to a master?

Post by Nordlandia » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:42 pm

lkaufman wrote:John volunteered that in the unlikely event that normal chess is chosen by lot we'll draw lots again, as it would defeat the purpose of the test.
Lot of 518 is the starting position of classical chess. That's 1/960 or 1‰ chance.

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