No progress part I

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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Henk
Posts: 7216
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 10:31 am

No progress part I

Post by Henk »

Skipper chess application not searching deep enough (Counting material only)

[d] 8/p3q1kp/1p2Pnp1/3pQ3/2pP4/1nP3N1/1B4PP/6K1 w - - 0 34

Code: Select all

Depth  Value   Time(seconds)   Nodes
  1   -0.4900      0.00         203   e5b8 
  2   -0.4800      0.02        1310   e5e3 h7h5 
  3   -0.4900      0.01        2388   e5b8 e7e6 
  4   -0.5000      0.02        6644   e5b8 e7e6 b8a7 
  5   -0.4700      0.05       15403   e5e3 h7h5 g3e2 g7h8 
  6   -0.4800      0.08       34797   e5e2 h7h5 g3h1 g7h8 
  7   -0.4600      0.11       74191   g1f2 h7h5 e5b8 e7e6 b8a7 
  8   -0.4600      0.35      180068   g3e2 h7h5 e5b8 e7e6 b8a7 g7h8 
  9   -0.4800      0.27      346485   g1h1 h7h5 e5b8 e7e6 b8a7 g7h8 
 10   -0.4600      0.70      751509   g3e2 h7h5 e5b8 e7e6 b8a7 g7h8 a7b8 
 11   -0.4600      1.29     1574506   e5b8 e7e6 b8a7 g7h8 a7b8 f6e8 b8d8 h8g8 
 12   -0.4800      3.33     3396750   g3h1 h7h5 e5b8 e7e6 b8a7 g7h8 a7b8 h8h7 
 13   -0.4600      7.89     7354602   g3e2 e7e8 e6e7 e8c8 e5d6 h7h5 d6d8 c8e6 d8f8 
 14   -0.4700     17.83    15823984   g1f1 h7h5 e5b8 e7e6 b8a7 g7h8 a7b8 f6e8 b8d8 h8g8 
 15   -0.4700     30.82    32862082   e5b8 e7e6 b8a7 g7h8 a7b8 f6e8 b8e5 e6e5 d4e5 h8g8 
 16    0.3700     72.27    70312254   g3f1 h7h5 f1e3 g7g8 e3d5 f6d5 e5d5 b3a5 d5a8 g8h7 a8c8 
stopped
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Peter Berger
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:56 pm

Re: No progress part I

Post by Peter Berger »

I have never been sure this combination is even correct.

The idea is very simple, but the details are reallly extremely complicated.

I guess someone will have studied and likely posted it here already. Can someone provide a link?

I've never understood what made Botwinnik think that this position is such a great example for the superiority of human evaluation. Yes - Ba3 and Nh5 will be chosen as candiates by humans for evaluation reasons - as they see the potential for the win.

And then the human will have to calculate like mad to find out whether this really works.

Something computers can do much better than humans.

Peter
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MonteCarlo
Posts: 188
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:59 pm

Re: No progress part I

Post by MonteCarlo »

Peter Berger wrote:I have never been sure this combination is even correct.

The idea is very simple, but the details are reallly extremely complicated.

I guess someone will have studied and likely posted it here already. Can someone provide a link?

I've never understood what made Botwinnik think that this position is such a great example for the superiority of human evaluation. Yes - Ba3 and Nh5 will be chosen as candiates by humans for evaluation reasons - as they see the potential for the win.

And then the human will have to calculate like mad to find out whether this really works.

Something computers can do much better than humans.

Peter
I'd say it's correct 8-)

After some forwards-backwards:



FEN: 8/p3q1kp/1p2Pnp1/3pQ3/2pP4/1nP3N1/1B4PP/6K1 w - - 0 34

Stockfish_x64_modern_170724_savehash:
1/1 00:00 29 15k +M42 Ba3
2/2 00:00 89 45k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3
3/3 00:00 154 77k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5
4/4 00:00 225 113k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5
5/6 00:00 298 149k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8
6/8 00:00 384 192k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8
7/10 00:00 469 235k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8
8/11 00:00 558 279k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3
9/12 00:00 850 425k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4
10/15 00:00 1k 598k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2
11/17 00:00 2k 797k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3
12/24 00:00 2k 1,099k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6
13/25 00:00 3k 1,033k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5
14/26 00:00 4k 1,296k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6
15/27 00:00 5k 1,258k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4
16/31 00:00 6k 1,246k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7
17/35 00:00 9k 1,476k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5
18/37 00:00 12k 1,441k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4
19/37 00:00 15k 1,623k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4
20/42 00:00 19k 1,693k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5
21/43 00:00 23k 1,792k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5
22/44 00:00 29k 1,814k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4
23/44 00:00 35k 1,957k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4
24/45 00:00 43k 1,946k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6
25/46 00:00 52k 1,919k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3
26/47 00:00 63k 1,907k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4
27/47 00:00 74k 1,951k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4
28/48 00:00 87k 1,923k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4 Kg4
29/51 00:00 100k 1,917k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4 Kg4 Kg6 Kf3 c5
30/53 00:00 115k 1,890k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4 Kg4 Kg6 Kf3 c5 Ke4 Kh7
31/55 00:00 133k 1,893k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4 Kg4 Kg6 Kf3 c5 Ke4 Kh7 Kf3 c6
32/57 00:00 153k 1,869k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4 Kg4 Kg6 Kf3 c5 Ke4 Kh7 Kf3 c6 Ke2 c7
33/58 00:00 176k 1,868k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4 Kg4 Kg6 Kf3 c5 Ke4 Kh7 Kf3 c6 Ke2 c7 Kf1
34/59 00:00 202k 1,910k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4 Kg4 Kg6 Kf3 c5 Ke4 Kh7 Kf3 c6 Ke2 c7 Kf1 Kh6
35/59 00:00 229k 1,955k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4 Kg4 Kg6 Kf3 c5 Ke4 Kh7 Kf3 c6 Ke2 c7 Kf1 Kh6
36/59 00:00 259k 2,004k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4 Kg4 Kg6 Kf3 c5 Ke4 Kh7 Kf3 c6 Ke2 c7 Kf1 Kh6
37/59 00:00 288k 2,070k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4 Kg4 Kg6 Kf3 c5 Ke4 Kh7 Kf3 c6 Ke2 c7 Kf1 Kh6
38/60 00:00 318k 2,117k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4 Kg4 Kg6 Kf3 c5 Ke4 Kh7 Kf3 c6 Ke2 c7 Kf1 Kh6 Ke2
39/60 00:00 355k 2,136k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4 Kg4 Kg6 Kf3 c5 Ke4 Kh7 Kf3 c6 Ke2 c7 Kf1 Kh6 Ke2
40/60 00:00 388k 2,169k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4 Kg4 Kg6 Kf3 c5 Ke4 Kh7 Kf3 c6 Ke2 c7 Kf1 Kh6 Ke2
41/60 00:00 425k 2,189k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4 Kg4 Kg6 Kf3 c5 Ke4 Kh7 Kf3 c6 Ke2 c7 Kf1 Kh6 Ke2
42/60 00:00 461k 2,215k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4 Kg4 Kg6 Kf3 c5 Ke4 Kh7 Kf3 c6 Ke2 c7 Kf1 Kh6 Ke2
43/60 00:00 496k 2,244k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4 Kg4 Kg6 Kf3 c5 Ke4 Kh7 Kf3 c6 Ke2 c7 Kf1 Kh6 Ke2
44/60 00:00 538k 2,270k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4 Kg4 Kg6 Kf3 c5 Ke4 Kh7 Kf3 c6 Ke2 c7 Kf1 Kh6 Ke2
45/60 00:00 586k 2,272k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4 Kg4 Kg6 Kf3 c5 Ke4 Kh7 Kf3 c6 Ke2 c7 Kf1 Kh6 Ke2
46/61 00:00 880k 2,206k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4 Kg4 Kg6 Kf3 c5 Ke4 Kh7 Kf3 c6 Ke2 c7 Kf1 Kh6 Ke2 Kg5
47/62 00:00 1,049k 2,209k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4 Kg4 Kg6 Kf3 c5 Ke4 Kh7 Kf3 c6 Ke2 c7 Kf1 Kh6 Ke2 Kg5 Ke3
48/62 00:23 51,441k 2,234k +M42 Ba3 Qxa3 Nh5+ gxh5 Qg5+ Kf8 Qxf6+ Kg8 Qf7+ Kh8 g3 Nxd4 e7 Qc1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ Qxf5 Nxf5 e8Q+ Kg7 Qe5+ Kg6 Qxd5 Kf6 Qxc4 h6 Qc7 b5 Qxa7 Nd6 Qe3 Nf5 Qc5 Ng7 Kh4 Kg6 Qxb5 Nf5+ Qxf5+ Kxf5 Kxh5 Ke4 Kxh6 Kf3 c4 Kg4 Kg6 Kf3 c5 Ke4 Kh7 Kf3 c6 Ke2 c7 Kf1 Kh6 Ke2 Kg5 Ke3
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Nay Lin Tun
Posts: 708
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:34 am

Re: No progress part I

Post by Nay Lin Tun »

1. Ba3, why Qxa3? instead why not play Nc5. Black still lose but wont mate in 42. (Nc5 was advised by both SF and Komodo)

P.S I remember this position from a book "Combination, the heart of chess" and white player is Botvinik . I read that book when I was 12-13yrs. I still remember that white played two critical moves Ba3, and Nh5+. So surprised and happy how memory of 25+ years ago still work.
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MonteCarlo
Posts: 188
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:59 pm

Re: No progress part I

Post by MonteCarlo »

Nay Lin Tun wrote:1. Ba3, why Qxa3? instead why not play Nc5. Black still lose but wont mate in 42. (Nc5 was advised by both SF and Komodo)

P.S I remember this position from a book "Combination, the heart of chess" and white player is Botvinik . I read that book when I was 12-13yrs. I still remember that white played two critical moves Ba3, and Nh5+. So surprised and happy how memory of 25+ years ago still work.
Indeed, then it is not mate in 41 anymore (white already played Ba3).

Then it's mate in 37 8-)

FEN: 8/p3q1kp/1p2Pnp1/2npQ3/2pP4/B1P3N1/6PP/6K1 w - - 2 35

Stockfish_x64_modern_170724_savehash:
1/1 00:00 42 21k +M38 dxc5
2/2 00:00 130 65k +M38 dxc5 a5
3/3 00:00 240 120k +M38 dxc5 a5 cxb6
4/4 00:00 427 214k +M38 dxc5 a5 cxb6 Qxa3
5/5 00:00 636 318k +M38 dxc5 a5 cxb6 Qxa3 b7
6/7 00:00 896 448k +M38 dxc5 a5 cxb6 Qxa3 b7 Qa1+ Nf1
7/8 00:00 1k 608k +M38 dxc5 a5 cxb6 Qxa3 b7 Qa1+ Nf1 Qb2
8/9 00:00 2k 774k +M38 dxc5 a5 cxb6 Qxa3 b7 Qa1+ Nf1 Qb2 b8Q
9/10 00:00 2k 937k +M38 dxc5 a5 cxb6 Qxa3 b7 Qa1+ Nf1 Qb2 b8Q Qxb8
10/13 00:00 6k 1,971k +M38 dxc5 h5 cxb6 Qxa3 b7 Qc5+ Kf1 Qb6 b8Q Qxb8 Qxb8 d4
11/14 00:00 7k 2,371k +M38 dxc5 h5 cxb6 Qxa3 b7 Qc5+ Kf1 Qb6 b8Q Qxb8 Qxb8 d4 Qxa7+ Kh6
12/16 00:00 9k 2,213k +M39 dxc5 h5 cxb6 Qxa3 b7 Qc5+ Kf1 Qb6 b8Q Qxb8 Qxb8 d4 Qxa7+ Kh6 Qxd4 Kh7
13/18 00:00 17k 2,881k +M38 dxc5 a5 cxb6 Qxa3 b7 Qa1+ Nf1 Qb2 b8Q Qxb8 Qxb8 a4 Qc7+ Kh6 Qe5 Ng4 Qf4+ Kg7
14/19 00:00 20k 3,261k +M38 dxc5 a5 cxb6 Qxa3 b7 Qa1+ Nf1 Qb2 b8Q Qxb8 Qxb8 a4 Qc7+ Kh6 Qe5 Ng4 Qf4+ Kg7 Qxg4
15/22 00:00 24k 3,449k +M38 dxc5 a5 cxb6 Qxa3 b7 Qa1+ Nf1 Qb2 b8Q Qxb8 Qxb8 a4 Qc7+ Kh6 Qe5 Ng4 Qf4+ Kg7 Qxg4 Kf6 Ne3
16/26 00:00 32k 3,523k +M38 dxc5 a5 cxb6 Qxa3 b7 Qa1+ Nf1 Qb2 b8Q Qxb8 Qxb8 a4 Qc7+ Kh6 Qe5 Ng4 Qf4+ Kg7 Qxg4 Kf6 Ne3 Ke7
17/26 00:00 94k 4,263k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5
18/30 00:00 97k 4,235k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6
19/31 00:00 113k 4,349k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7
20/34 00:00 127k 4,393k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5
21/39 00:00 143k 4,475k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6
22/39 00:00 157k 4,363k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6
23/39 00:00 173k 4,329k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6
24/39 00:00 192k 4,365k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6
25/41 00:00 205k 4,457k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4
26/42 00:00 229k 4,403k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5
27/45 00:00 247k 4,419k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3
28/45 00:00 268k 4,395k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3
29/46 00:00 293k 4,436k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3 Kh5
30/49 00:00 329k 4,392k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3 Kh5 Kf4 g5+ Kf5
31/51 00:00 369k 4,241k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3 Kh5 Kf4 g5+ Kf5 Kh6 Nxc4
32/51 00:00 424k 4,327k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3 Kh5 Kf4 g5+ Kf5 Kh6 Nxc4
33/51 00:00 495k 4,379k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3 Kh5 Kf4 g5+ Kf5 Kh6 Nxc4
34/52 00:00 585k 4,369k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3 Kh5 Kf4 g5+ Kf5 Kh6 Nxc4 g4
35/52 00:00 652k 4,379k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3 Kh5 Kf4 g5+ Kf5 Kh6 Nxc4 g4
36/52 00:00 865k 4,555k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3 Kh5 Kf4 g5+ Kf5 Kh6 Nxc4 g4
37/52 00:00 1,227k 4,664k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3 Kh5 Kf4 g5+ Kf5 Kh6 Nxc4 g4
38/52 00:00 2,244k 4,694k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3 Kh5 Kf4 g5+ Kf5 Kh6 Nxc4 g4
39/52 00:00 3,044k 4,705k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3 Kh5 Kf4 g5+ Kf5 Kh6 Nxc4 g4
40/52 00:01 6,877k 4,782k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3 Kh5 Kf4 g5+ Kf5 Kh6 Nxc4 g4
41/53 00:01 9,305k 4,794k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3 Kh5 Kf4 g5+ Kf5 Kh6 Nxc4 g4 Kxg4
42/54 00:02 14,041k 4,840k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3 Kh5 Kf4 g5+ Kf5 Kh6 Nxc4 g4 Kxg4 Kg6
43/55 00:04 20,605k 4,864k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3 Kh5 Kf4 g5+ Kf5 Kh6 Nxc4 g4 Kxg4 Kg6 Nd6
44/56 00:06 29,598k 4,844k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3 Kh5 Kf4 g5+ Kf5 Kh6 Nxc4 g4 Kxg4 Kg6 Nd6 Kh6
45/56 00:08 38,959k 4,843k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3 Kh5 Kf4 g5+ Kf5 Kh6 Nxc4 g4 Kxg4 Kg6 Nd6 Kh6
46/57 00:09 46,395k 4,805k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3 Kh5 Kf4 g5+ Kf5 Kh6 Nxc4 g4 Kxg4 Kg6 Nd6 Kh6 c4
47/59 00:13 63,415k 4,663k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3 Kh5 Kf4 g5+ Kf5 Kh6 Nxc4 g4 Kxg4 Kg6 Nd6 Kh6 c4 Kh7 c5
48/59 00:24 113,951k 4,692k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Ng4 Kf5 Ne3+ Kg5 Kg3 Kh5 Kf4 g5+ Kf5 Kh6 Nxc4 g4 Kxg4 Kg6 Nd6 Kh6 c4 Kh7 c5
49/61 00:42 199,223k 4,716k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Kg3 g5 Kg4 Kd5 Kxg5 Ke6 Kg4 Kd5 Nf7 Ke4 h4 Kd3 Ne5+ Kc2 Nxc4 Kb3 Ne3 Ka4 h5 Kb3 h6
50/63 00:48 227,926k 4,695k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Ng4+ Ke7 Nxh6 Ke6 Kg3 g5 Kg4 Kd5 Kxg5 Ke6 Kg4 Kd5 Nf7 Ke4 h4 Kd3 Nd6 Kc2 Nxc4 Kb3 Ne3 Ka4 h5 Kb5 h6
51/64 00:51 242,986k 4,690k +M37 dxc5 bxc5 Ne2 Kg8 Nf4 Ne8 Nxd5 Qd6 Nf6+ Kh8 Qxd6 Nxd6 e7 Kg7 e8N+ Nxe8 Nxe8+ Kf7 Bxc5 a6 Nc7 Kf6 Bd4+ Kf5 Nxa6 Kg5 Kf2 Kf4 Nc5 h6 Nd7 Kg4 Ne5+ Kf5 Kf3 Kf6 Kf4 Kg7 Ng4+ Kf7 Nxh6+ Ke6 Ng4 Kd6 Ne5 Kd5 Kg5 Ke6 Nxc4 Kd5 Nb2 Ke6 Kxg6 Kd5 h4 Ke4 h5 Kf4 h6 Kg3 Nc4 Kxg2 Ne3+ Kf2
Top
Maarten Claessens
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 10:08 am
Location: Near Nijmegen

Re: No progress part I

Post by Maarten Claessens »

Peter Berger wrote:I have never been sure this combination is even correct.

The idea is very simple, but the details are reallly extremely complicated.

I guess someone will have studied and likely posted it here already. Can someone provide a link?

I've never understood what made Botwinnik think that this position is such a great example for the superiority of human evaluation. Yes - Ba3 and Nh5 will be chosen as candiates by humans for evaluation reasons - as they see the potential for the win.

And then the human will have to calculate like mad to find out whether this really works.

Something computers can do much better than humans.

Peter
The position is discussed by Botvinnik himself in the article "Decision Making and Computers", published in Advances in Computer Chess 3 (Pergamon Press 1982) and reprinted in Computer Chess Compendium by David Levy (B.T.Batsford 1988).
Nothing is unstable (Lawrence Krauss)
Top
Martin Hertz
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:43 pm

Re: No progress part I

Post by Martin Hertz »

[d] 8/p5kp/1p2Pnp1/3pQ3/2pP4/qnP3N1/6PP/6K1 w - - 0 36
M-Chess 5.0 switches from Qc7+ with a score of 0.00 to Nh5+ in depth 7 already with a score of +5.98 within 3 seconds at 3.3 GHz.
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Henk
Posts: 7216
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 10:31 am

Re: No progress part I

Post by Henk »

Skipper search sees no win. Even when searching deeper. Probably reduces the wrong moves. I don't know. Again waste of time.

Code: Select all

Depth  Value   Time(seconds)   Nodes
  1   -0.4600      0.06         252   g3h1 
  2   -0.4700      0.08        1117   g1f2 h7h5 
  3   -0.4600      0.12        3345   h2h4 h7h5 e5b8 
  4   -0.4600      0.15        5352   g3f1 h7h5 e5b8 e7e6 
  5   -0.4700      0.23       12128   e5e3 h7h5 g3e2 g7h8 e3h6 e7h7 
  6   -0.4900      0.28       15755   g3h1 h7h5 e5b8 e7e6 b8a7 f6d7 
  7   -0.4700      0.42       30414   e5e1 h7h5 g3h1 g7h8 h2h4 h8g8 g2g3 
  8   -0.4800      0.55       42088   g3f1 h7h5 e5b8 e7e6 b8a7 f6d7 a7a8 g7h7 
  9   -0.1000      1.13       96075   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 10    0.0000      1.39      116448   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 11    0.0000      1.62      135601   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 12    0.0000      1.91      162013   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 13    0.0000      2.17      184345   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 14    0.0200      2.57      218755   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 e7a3 
 15    0.0000      2.95      252867   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 16    0.0700      3.50      295613   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 e7a3 
 17    0.0600      3.99      336757   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 e7a3 
 18    0.0000      4.78      409825   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 19    0.0000      5.54      478039   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 20    0.0200      6.50      565996   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 e7a3 
 21    0.0500      7.60      666662   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 e7a3 
 22    0.0100      8.66      760707   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 e7a3 
 23    0.0000     10.72      909145   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 24    0.0600     12.55     1048671   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 e7a3 
 25    0.0700     16.97     1422101   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 e7a3 
 26    0.0000     21.25     1750006   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 27    0.0500     31.84     2758997   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 e7a3 
 28    0.0000     42.52     3681572   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 29    0.0000     53.34     4653008   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 30    0.0000     59.30     5081023   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 31    0.0000     73.24     6124561   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 32    0.0000     86.35     6918389   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 33    0.0000    113.43     8958475   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 34    0.0300    140.04    10627928   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 e7a3 
 35    0.0000    163.87    12360334   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 36    0.0000    213.95    16295894   b2a3 e7a3 e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
stopped
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Martin Hertz
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:43 pm

Re: No progress part I

Post by Martin Hertz »

May be Skipper is able to see a win in this position:

[d] 8/p5kp/1p2Pnp1/3pQ3/2pP4/qnP3N1/6PP/6K1 w - - 0 36
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Henk
Posts: 7216
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 10:31 am

Re: No progress part I

Post by Henk »

Martin Hertz wrote:May be Skipper is able to see a win in this position:

[d] 8/p5kp/1p2Pnp1/3pQ3/2pP4/qnP3N1/6PP/6K1 w - - 0 36

Skipper still sees no win. I see something wrong in output pv.

For instance 30 .. h5g5 h5g5. Illegal move I need to fix that.

Code: Select all

Depth  Value   Time(seconds)   Nodes
  1   -3.1300      0.00         376   e6e7 
  2   -3.0600      0.02        1417   e6e7 a3a4 
  3   -3.0100      0.04        4107   e5c7 g7h6 e6e7 
  4   -3.9400      0.11       10541   e6e7 a3a4 e5e6 a4a1 g1f2 
  5   -1.0700      0.21       20567   e5c7 g7h8 c7d8 f6e8 d8e8 h8g7 
  6   -1.0000      0.26       24756   e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 f6g8 b8e5 g8f6 
  7    0.0000      0.37       35424   e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 f6g8 b8e5 g8f6 e5b8 
  8    0.0400      0.48       45022   e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 f6g8 b8e5 g8f6 e5b8 g7h8 
  9    0.0000      1.02       99637   e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 10    0.0800      1.30      124838   e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 g7h8 
 11    0.0800      1.60      154818   e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 g7h8 
 12    0.0000      2.05      197420   e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 13    0.0200      2.39      228212   e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 g7h8 
 14    0.0000      2.82      268996   e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 15    0.0500      4.07      388451   e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 g7h8 
 16    0.0000      7.16      674250   e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 17    0.0000      8.60      805990   e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 18    0.0000     13.27     1237263   e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 19    0.0000     18.29     1677720   e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 20    0.0600     20.35     1860658   e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 g7h8 
 21    0.0000     22.79     2065869   e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 22    0.0000     27.19     2455817   e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 23    0.0700     32.73     2835243   g3h5 g7h6 e5e3 h6h5 e3h3 h5g5 h3e3 g5h5 e3h3 
 24    0.0200     36.43     3113070   e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 25    0.0800     41.76     3526996   g3h5 g7h6 e5e3 h6h5 e3h3 h5g5 h3e3 g5h5 e3h3 h5g5 h3e3 g5h5 e3h3 h5g5 h3e3 g5h5 e3h3 e3h3 e3h3 
 26    0.0800     46.72     3899922   g3h5 g7h6 e5e3 h6h5 e3h3 h5g5 h3e3 g5h5 e3h3 h5g5 h3e3 g5h5 e3h3 h5g5 h3e3 g5h5 e3h3 h5g5 h3e3 g5h5 e3h3 e3h3 e3h3 e3h3 g7h6 
 27    0.0000     54.25     4549100   g3h5 g7h6 e5e3 h6h5 e3h3 h5g5 h3e3 g5h5 e3h3 h5g5 h3e3 g5h5 e3h3 h5g5 h3e3 g5h5 e3h3 h5g5 h3e3 g5h5 e3h3 h5g5 h3e3 g5h5 e3h3 e3h3 e3h3 e3h3 e3h3 
 28    0.0800     61.68     4996214   e5c7 g7h8 c7b8 h8g7 b8c7 
 29    0.0600    119.17     9642597   g3h5 g7h6 h5f6 a3c1 g1f2 c1d2 f2g1 d2d1 g1f2 d1c2 f2g1 c2b1 g1f2 b1b2 f2g1 b2a1 g1f2 a1b2 
 30    0.0100    194.35    16154065   g3h5 g7h6 e5e3 h6h5 e3h3 h5g5 h3e3 g5h5 e3h3 h5g5 h3e3 g5h5 e3h3 h5g5 h3e3 g5h5 e3h3 h5g5 h3e3 g5h5 e3h3 h5g5 h3e3 g5h5 e3h3 h5g5 h3e3 g5h5 e3h3 h5g5 h5g5 e3h3 e3h3 e3h3 e3h3 e3h3 e3h3 
stopped
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