I'm not seeking donations at this point; in particular, it would seem inappropriate as long as others are donating time on really expensive hardware for free (and there is already the Lichess mirror).
Coincidentally, I see tablebase.lichess.ovh now points to a nice 7-man position
7-men Syzygy attempt
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
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Re: 7-men Syzygy attempt
We need the most important syzygy in first time. After we can put others important syzygy. But we don't need useless 7 men syzygy like QQQQKvPK or so.
SSD for the most important 7 men syzygy is about 2 Tb
SSD for the most important 7 men syzygy is about 2 Tb
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Re: 7-men Syzygy attempt
Please come back when you have something to contribute (and not earlier).
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Re: 7-men Syzygy attempt
3 and 4-men probably add close to nothing, among the top 3 engines. 5-men has been cheap to enable form the get go, so the only thing I ever tested was 6-men against 5. This was years ago, before investing in fast NVMe SSDs I wanted to know if it was worth it. It fluctuates a lot depending on the engine, but I recall H4 tactical version, at the very low depth of 10, to give a very sizeable increase in strength. I don't expect results to hold for H6.
Under fixed depth testing conditions, it's my believe that more time equals smaller gaps; I never really tested it, but seeing who asks I'll give it a shot.
Engine tested: asmFish 9 (April 10th version with correct default contempt value)
Parameters: everything at default except for SyzygyProbeLimit, which was given the values 0, 5 and 6
Openings: Hert500
Book: 46 plies deep, very wide book (more than 10 million positions at ply 36)
6-men Syzygy adjudication
Resign at cp=300
Draw if score of 0 found for 5 moves, starting at the 25th
Ordo calculations done with version 1.2.4, using the -W and -s 1000 switches
2 round robins played at depth 12 and 15, plus a connecting match between the strongest depth 12 and the weakest depth 15 engine.
Code: Select all
# PLAYER : RATING ERROR POINTS PLAYED (%) CFS(%) W D L D(%) OppAvg OppErr OppN OppDiv
1 6a9d15 : 2454.9 14.4 1045.0 2000 52 99 469 1152 379 58 2438.9 13.0 2 2.0
2 5a9d15 : 2440.9 14.6 986.0 2000 49 73 407 1158 435 58 2445.9 12.9 2 2.0
3 0a9d15 : 2436.8 11.4 1789.5 3000 60 100 1070 1439 491 48 2354.3 13.5 3 3.0
4 6a9d12 : 2167.3 11.6 1228.0 3000 41 97 620 1216 1164 41 2245.7 13.5 3 3.0
5 5a9d12 : 2155.6 14.4 999.0 2000 50 95 529 940 531 47 2155.9 13.1 2 2.0
6 0a9d12 : 2144.5 14.6 952.5 2000 48 --- 486 933 581 47 2161.4 13.0 2 2.0
White advantage = 41.83 +/- 3.06
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 50.00 % +/- 0.00
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Re: 7-men Syzygy attempt
Testing TBs at fixed depth will not give a complete picture. On the one hand, they take time to probe. On the other hand, they allow the search to go deeper. By fixing the depth you eliminate these two important components from the equation.
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Re: 7-men Syzygy attempt
What do you mean by "time to probe"? CPU throttle? There isn't.
As for allowing the search to go deeper... well, yes, under regular TCs engines will search (much) deeper, but that only masks the effect TBs really have. As the test shows, more depth equals less of a gap, if you increase said depth you'll hardly register any differences at all. Just because it's the more chosen time control, it doesn't mean you should jump onboard blindly.
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Re: 7-men Syzygy attempt
Time to probe is simply time to probe. It takes many cpu cycles to probe a position, and data may have to be read from SSD.Ozymandias wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 11:44 amWhat do you mean by "time to probe"? CPU throttle? There isn't.
It masks their effect? On the contrary, the ability to search deeper is one of the main benefits of using TBs.As for allowing the search to go deeper... well, yes, under regular TCs engines will search (much) deeper, but that only masks the effect TBs really have.
No, your test artificially limits the depth reached by the engine playing with TBs. At the same time, it artificially removes the speed penalty of probing.As the test shows, more depth equals less of a gap, if you increase said depth you'll hardly register any differences at all.
Playing with fixed depth is simply not a time control at all.Just because it's the more chosen time control, it doesn't mean you should jump onboard blindly.
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Re: 7-men Syzygy attempt
OK, what you meant is that playing with a time control as opposed to fixed depth lets both engines search deeper in endgame positions. That is indeed true and fixing depth indeed artificially lowers the level of endgame play of both engines.syzygy wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 11:56 amIt masks their effect? On the contrary, the ability to search deeper is one of the main benefits of using TBs.Ozymandias wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 11:44 am As for allowing the search to go deeper... well, yes, under regular TCs engines will search (much) deeper, but that only masks the effect TBs really have.
But what I way saying is that searching with TBs allows an engine to search late middlegame and endgame positions deeper than without TBs. This is because each probe cuts a branch of the tree, so the tree becomes smaller. Fixing depth removes this benefit.
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Re: 7-men Syzygy attempt
Oh boy. Please look at this http://tablebase.lichess.ovh/tables/standard/7/
What if some child come here and sees what you are doing, what will you answer him???
What is this KQQQQQvK.rtbw and this KQQQQQvK.rtbz???
I don't know how to set 5 white queens on the board and black king still isn't checkmated.
What is this KRNNNNvK.rtbz or this KRBBBBvK.rtbz? Where did you find chessboard with 4 bishops and 4 knights ???
Please delete all those tablebase and stay only these:
KBBNNvKQ KQBBvKQB KQBBvKQN KQBBvKQQ KQBBvKQR KQBNvKQB KQBNvKQN KQBNvKQQ KQBNvKQR KQNNvKQB KQNNvKQN KQNNvKQQ KQNNvKQR KQQBvKQQ KQQNvKQQ KQRBvKQQ KQRBvKQR KQRNvKQQ KQRNvKQR KQRRvKQQ KRBBNvKQ KRBNNvKQ KRBNvKQN KRRBvKQB KRRBvKQN KRRBvKQR
These tablebases are 2-3% of all others useless bases. It means we need maximum 2 Tb for all useful 3-4-5-6-7 men.
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Re: 7-men Syzygy attempt
A child already came here.main line wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 1:01 pmOh boy. Please look at this http://tablebase.lichess.ovh/tables/standard/7/
What if some child come here and sees what you are doing, what will you answer him???
Why do you feel the need to expose your ignorance?What is this KQQQQQvK.rtbw and this KQQQQQvK.rtbz???
I don't know how to set 5 white queens on the board and black king still isn't checkmated.
Feel free to write your own generator.