CPU vs GPU...fair play...keep it simple

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mirek
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:18 pm

Re: CPU vs GPU...fair play...keep it simple

Post by mirek » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:59 pm

Milos wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:36 pm
AMD Threadripper 1950x vs 1080Ti
AMD Threadripper 1920x vs 1080
AMD Ryzen 7 1800x vs 1070
AMD Ryzen 7 1700 vs 1060
Soon nvidia line will get updated for RTX 20xx (which should cost about the same as 10xx cards today), so I am wondering how much better for example 2080Ti will be compared to 1080Ti. I.e will leela be able to take advantage of the tensor cores or (maybe) fp16 computation for playing strength? Or will the improvement for leela consist mainly from higher clocks / more CUDA cores? Does anyone have any idea?

Werewolf
Posts: 1198
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: CPU vs GPU...fair play...keep it simple

Post by Werewolf » Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:19 pm

mirek wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:59 pm
Milos wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:36 pm
AMD Threadripper 1950x vs 1080Ti
AMD Threadripper 1920x vs 1080
AMD Ryzen 7 1800x vs 1070
AMD Ryzen 7 1700 vs 1060
Soon nvidia line will get updated for RTX 20xx (which should cost about the same as 10xx cards today), so I am wondering how much better for example 2080Ti will be compared to 1080Ti. I.e will leela be able to take advantage of the tensor cores or (maybe) fp16 computation for playing strength? Or will the improvement for leela consist mainly from higher clocks / more CUDA cores? Does anyone have any idea?
Well apparently Lc0 can already take advantage of half precision. But I'm not sure if the new gaming cards will support it very well. The fp16 of the current gen is a lot slower than single precision. But cards like Titan show a 2x speedup.

Werewolf
Posts: 1198
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: CPU vs GPU...fair play...keep it simple

Post by Werewolf » Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:19 pm

mirek wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:59 pm
Milos wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:36 pm
AMD Threadripper 1950x vs 1080Ti
AMD Threadripper 1920x vs 1080
AMD Ryzen 7 1800x vs 1070
AMD Ryzen 7 1700 vs 1060
Soon nvidia line will get updated for RTX 20xx (which should cost about the same as 10xx cards today), so I am wondering how much better for example 2080Ti will be compared to 1080Ti. I.e will leela be able to take advantage of the tensor cores or (maybe) fp16 computation for playing strength? Or will the improvement for leela consist mainly from higher clocks / more CUDA cores? Does anyone have any idea?
Well apparently Lc0 can already take advantage of half precision. But I'm not sure if the new gaming cards will support it very well. The fp16 of the current gen is a lot slower than single precision. But cards like Titan V show a 2x speedup.

Milos
Posts: 3387
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:47 am

Re: CPU vs GPU...fair play...keep it simple

Post by Milos » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:21 pm

mirek wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:59 pm
Milos wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:36 pm
AMD Threadripper 1950x vs 1080Ti
AMD Threadripper 1920x vs 1080
AMD Ryzen 7 1800x vs 1070
AMD Ryzen 7 1700 vs 1060
Soon nvidia line will get updated for RTX 20xx (which should cost about the same as 10xx cards today), so I am wondering how much better for example 2080Ti will be compared to 1080Ti. I.e will leela be able to take advantage of the tensor cores or (maybe) fp16 computation for playing strength? Or will the improvement for leela consist mainly from higher clocks / more CUDA cores? Does anyone have any idea?
Consumer(gaming) cards will never have real fp16 support or tensor cores. NVIDIA is not crazy to ruin themselves the chance to earn more by selling "AI tergeted" cards for much more money.
For consumer cards 20xx will be roughly 15% faster than 10xx. That is the same kind of speedup compared to difference between Ryzen/Threadripper 1xxx and 2xxx. So difference between price optimal CPU and GPU machines will remain the same.

mirek
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:18 pm

Re: CPU vs GPU...fair play...keep it simple

Post by mirek » Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:27 am

Milos wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:21 pm
mirek wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:59 pm
Milos wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:36 pm
AMD Threadripper 1950x vs 1080Ti
AMD Threadripper 1920x vs 1080
AMD Ryzen 7 1800x vs 1070
AMD Ryzen 7 1700 vs 1060
Soon nvidia line will get updated for RTX 20xx (which should cost about the same as 10xx cards today), so I am wondering how much better for example 2080Ti will be compared to 1080Ti. I.e will leela be able to take advantage of the tensor cores or (maybe) fp16 computation for playing strength? Or will the improvement for leela consist mainly from higher clocks / more CUDA cores? Does anyone have any idea?
Consumer(gaming) cards will never have real fp16 support or tensor cores. NVIDIA is not crazy to ruin themselves the chance to earn more by selling "AI tergeted" cards for much more money.
For consumer cards 20xx will be roughly 15% faster than 10xx. That is the same kind of speedup compared to difference between Ryzen/Threadripper 1xxx and 2xxx. So difference between price optimal CPU and GPU machines will remain the same.
Makes sense that they are not crazy to compete with their enterprise grade cards. At the same time though they have been pushing some AI based image post-processing - of which the most important is the AI based denoising of ray traced scenes. And since ray tracing should be a feature of the new consumer cards (otherwise why to call them RTX - and the RTX naming instead of GTX seems very strongly hinted atm) therefore I was thinking that from this point of view it makes sense for them to have at least some of the tensor cores unlocked even on the consumer grade hardware.

I guess we will know for sure after 20xx series reveal on Monday, for now I take it that the plain 15% speedup to 1080Ti (for lc0) may be the most likely thing to happen but I think that the possibility of the speed up being more serious thanks to some of the tensor cores being unlocked isn't completely off the table yet.

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