I heard this second hand, so it seems I am wrong.
Maybe there is an even newer Fizbo, I don't know.
Sorry for the inaccuracy.
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
I heard this second hand, so it seems I am wrong.
The problem is Lc0 is really bad at endgames.Gary Internet wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:19 am They need to implement tablebase adjudication for this tournament to cut down o the number of times we end up watching engines messing about for 100+ moves of pointless crap.
At least 6 man if not 7 man adjudication
I know Alpha Zero adjudicated the games it played versus Stockfish. Looking at a few of the 10 games they published, they do seem like losses for Stockfish. But I if Alpha Zero would have been able to finish the game. If you play until ahead some amount, will a nn engine be able to play to the end accurately all the time? I suppose this could be tested, but maybe this weakness might have not been found without playing to the actual end. Perhaps nn engine should be trained to the end of the game, or until they see mate or at least a draw score for a while.jp wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:44 pmThe problem is Lc0 is really bad at endgames.Gary Internet wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:19 am They need to implement tablebase adjudication for this tournament to cut down o the number of times we end up watching engines messing about for 100+ moves of pointless crap.
At least 6 man if not 7 man adjudication
Lc0 now has a training run using tablebase rescoring for training, rather soon we should be able to see improvements in endgame play from this.mjlef wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:23 pmI know Alpha Zero adjudicated the games it played versus Stockfish. Looking at a few of the 10 games they published, they do seem like losses for Stockfish. But I if Alpha Zero would have been able to finish the game. If you play until ahead some amount, will a nn engine be able to play to the end accurately all the time? I suppose this could be tested, but maybe this weakness might have not been found without playing to the actual end. Perhaps nn engine should be trained to the end of the game, or until they see mate or at least a draw score for a while.jp wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:44 pmThe problem is Lc0 is really bad at endgames.Gary Internet wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:19 am They need to implement tablebase adjudication for this tournament to cut down o the number of times we end up watching engines messing about for 100+ moves of pointless crap.
At least 6 man if not 7 man adjudication
And you still keep "0" in the name, what a joke...jkiliani wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:33 pmLc0 now has a training run using tablebase rescoring for training, rather soon we should be able to see improvements in endgame play from this.mjlef wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:23 pmI know Alpha Zero adjudicated the games it played versus Stockfish. Looking at a few of the 10 games they published, they do seem like losses for Stockfish. But I if Alpha Zero would have been able to finish the game. If you play until ahead some amount, will a nn engine be able to play to the end accurately all the time? I suppose this could be tested, but maybe this weakness might have not been found without playing to the actual end. Perhaps nn engine should be trained to the end of the game, or until they see mate or at least a draw score for a while.jp wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:44 pmThe problem is Lc0 is really bad at endgames.Gary Internet wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:19 am They need to implement tablebase adjudication for this tournament to cut down o the number of times we end up watching engines messing about for 100+ moves of pointless crap.
At least 6 man if not 7 man adjudication
I know you're just trolling, but (even if I don't like) TBs don't break the zero rule. It's not "human knowledge", it's perfect chess.Milos wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:10 pmAnd you still keep "0" in the name, what a joke...jkiliani wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:33 pmLc0 now has a training run using tablebase rescoring for training, rather soon we should be able to see improvements in endgame play from this.mjlef wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:23 pmI know Alpha Zero adjudicated the games it played versus Stockfish. Looking at a few of the 10 games they published, they do seem like losses for Stockfish. But I if Alpha Zero would have been able to finish the game. If you play until ahead some amount, will a nn engine be able to play to the end accurately all the time? I suppose this could be tested, but maybe this weakness might have not been found without playing to the actual end. Perhaps nn engine should be trained to the end of the game, or until they see mate or at least a draw score for a while.jp wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:44 pmThe problem is Lc0 is really bad at endgames.Gary Internet wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:19 am They need to implement tablebase adjudication for this tournament to cut down o the number of times we end up watching engines messing about for 100+ moves of pointless crap.
At least 6 man if not 7 man adjudication
So perfect chess knowledge is equal to zero knowledge, lol. Your logic is really irrefutable .CMCanavessi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:28 pmI know you're just trolling, but (even if I don't like) TBs don't break the zero rule. It's not "human knowledge", it's perfect chess.Milos wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:10 pmAnd you still keep "0" in the name, what a joke...jkiliani wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:33 pmLc0 now has a training run using tablebase rescoring for training, rather soon we should be able to see improvements in endgame play from this.mjlef wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:23 pmI know Alpha Zero adjudicated the games it played versus Stockfish. Looking at a few of the 10 games they published, they do seem like losses for Stockfish. But I if Alpha Zero would have been able to finish the game. If you play until ahead some amount, will a nn engine be able to play to the end accurately all the time? I suppose this could be tested, but maybe this weakness might have not been found without playing to the actual end. Perhaps nn engine should be trained to the end of the game, or until they see mate or at least a draw score for a while.jp wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:44 pmThe problem is Lc0 is really bad at endgames.Gary Internet wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:19 am They need to implement tablebase adjudication for this tournament to cut down o the number of times we end up watching engines messing about for 100+ moves of pointless crap.
At least 6 man if not 7 man adjudication
But I think Lc0 with TB or syzygy support would solve this problem easily.jp wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:44 pmThe problem is Lc0 is really bad at endgames.Gary Internet wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:19 am They need to implement tablebase adjudication for this tournament to cut down o the number of times we end up watching engines messing about for 100+ moves of pointless crap.
At least 6 man if not 7 man adjudication