B strategy is the future.

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mclane
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B strategy is the future.

Post by mclane » Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:47 pm

The race is not anymore about strength. The race is about b strategy and c strategy.
Komodo, Houdini and Stockfish showed that a strategy works. Or ab strategy.

But the future is not about this. It is about b strategy (no brute force)
and about c strategy (Computing like the humans do, with patterns).

Strength is not the target anymore. But PLANS.

Chess engines need to PLAN chess.
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Uri Blass
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Re: B strategy is the future.

Post by Uri Blass » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:26 pm

humans clearly use brute force.

brute force does not contradict memorizing patterns or plans.

brute force is trying to look at all options of yourself and all options of your opponent and I found that doing it in part of my time(at least one ply forward) can help me to get better results in chess.

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mclane
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Re: B strategy is the future.

Post by mclane » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:13 pm

I know NO human being playing chess doing brute force. What a nonsense.
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Dicaste
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Re: B strategy is the future.

Post by Dicaste » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:58 pm

I am not using brute force. I'm just using some strict rules/patterns. Altho i am only 1850+ elo. I select the best(which is optimal for my pattern) and calculate only next 3 move btw i am obsessed to place my minor pieces to behind pawns for example instead of e4 e5 Nf3 i prefer to play e4 e5 f4?? or i prefer to play d4 d5 c4 then Nc3. I won't explain them all but they are working fine(for positional chess) until sharp deep tactics.

brianr
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Re: B strategy is the future.

Post by brianr » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:01 am

FWIW Chess programs have been characterized as Type A and Type B since Shannon's historic paper:

https://vision.unipv.it/IA1/aa2009-2010 ... gChess.pdf

chrisw
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Re: B strategy is the future.

Post by chrisw » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:12 am

This human just knows what to do. Fast blitz can’t be played any other way.
For slower play it’s more or less the same, except one has time to think of the consequences, and during that process other ideas often emerge.
Is all entirely intuition.

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mclane
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Re: B strategy is the future.

Post by mclane » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:10 am

The AB strategy programs have reached the top limit.
Imo we should now concentrate on b strategy or even c strategy. Because you cannot earn anything anymore with AB.
We need new paths to walk on.
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Look
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Re: B strategy is the future.

Post by Look » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:24 pm

Hi,

I think new paths should be examined. But I have my own doubts about these methods in Chess:
  • Artificial neural networks (ANN): Can you consider chess board as continuous ?
  • Monte carlo algorithm (MCA): Is a forced line same as other lines ?

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mclane
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Re: B strategy is the future.

Post by mclane » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:33 pm

What is the sense when the NEW PATH is only another race like the usual race between Stockfish, Komodo and Houdini ?
That’s boring.

Before we had 3 bean counters, and then we have 4.

Sorry but I don’t see any news in this,

Chess is not about strength by computation,
Chess is about plans. About ideas and even art .
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....

tmokonen
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Re: B strategy is the future.

Post by tmokonen » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:55 am

You are such a romantic. :D

Do you find self learning programs such as AlphaZero and Leela Zero to be an interesting development? They definitely play an different style of chess than typical AB searchers, closer to artistic than a typical alpha beta searcher.

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