Alphazero news

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main line
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Re: Alphazero news

Post by main line » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:32 pm

Jouni wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:00 pm
I only looked so far for TCEC opening games. AO seems to be sometimes like patzer and loses in 22 moves to outdated SF :o .

And what is this: (Who is patzer here)

http://view.chessbase.com/cbreader/2018 ... 26031.html

jhellis3
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Re: Alphazero news

Post by jhellis3 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:48 pm

Well, I am most amused..... :D

matthewlai
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Re: Alphazero news

Post by matthewlai » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 pm

Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:48 pm
Were other settings ever considered, notably 0.5 or parent?
Yes and 0 seems to work best. Assumption being that most positions have 1 or at most a few good moves. All other moves are akin to passing or worse. In most equal-ish positions, passing will give the opponent a big advantage.
Disclosure: I work for DeepMind on the AlphaZero project, but everything I say here is personal opinion and does not reflect the views of DeepMind / Alphabet.

Gian-Carlo Pascutto
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Re: Alphazero news

Post by Gian-Carlo Pascutto » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:25 pm

matthewlai wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 pm
Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:48 pm
Were other settings ever considered, notably 0.5 or parent?
Yes and 0 seems to work best. Assumption being that most positions have 1 or at most a few good moves. All other moves are akin to passing or worse. In most equal-ish positions, passing will give the opponent a big advantage.
I think this ends up explaining why FPU reductions as implemented by both LZ and lc0 work though :-)

glennsamuel32
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Re: Alphazero news

Post by glennsamuel32 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:21 am

Hello Matthew, nice to see you back after so long !!

Does this mean Giraffe will get some updates in the future ? :D

Dann Corbit
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Re: Alphazero news

Post by Dann Corbit » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:57 am

glennsamuel32 wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:21 am
Hello Matthew, nice to see you back after so long !!

Does this mean Giraffe will get some updates in the future ? :D
I think giraffe is called "AlphaZero" or "DeepMind" now.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

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Re: Alphazero news

Post by matthewlai » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:17 am

glennsamuel32 wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:21 am
Hello Matthew, nice to see you back after so long !!

Does this mean Giraffe will get some updates in the future ? :D
Thanks!

Afraid not! AlphaZero is taking up all my time these days, and it's a very exciting project with lots of uncharted territory ahead :). AlphaZero is basically what I ever wanted Giraffe to become... and then a lot more. I have never been this excited about computer chess my whole life.
Disclosure: I work for DeepMind on the AlphaZero project, but everything I say here is personal opinion and does not reflect the views of DeepMind / Alphabet.

Albert Silver
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Re: Alphazero news

Post by Albert Silver » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:59 am

matthewlai wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:17 am
glennsamuel32 wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:21 am
Hello Matthew, nice to see you back after so long !!

Does this mean Giraffe will get some updates in the future ? :D
Thanks!

Afraid not! AlphaZero is taking up all my time these days, and it's a very exciting project with lots of uncharted territory ahead :). AlphaZero is basically what I ever wanted Giraffe to become... and then a lot more. I have never been this excited about computer chess my whole life.
Warmest congrats. I find that heartwarming to the extreme. :D :D :D
"Tactics are the bricks and sticks that make up a game, but positional play is the architectural blueprint."

yanquis1972
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Re: Alphazero news

Post by yanquis1972 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:42 am

Laskos wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:47 pm
OneTrickPony wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:13 am

I am not convinced the newest SF would win against it. The ELO is calculated against a pool of similar engines. It's not clear if 50 or 100 ELO more against this pool is equal to 50-100 ELO more against an opponent of a different type.
While that's true, Lc0 with the best nets on my powerful GPU and average CPU ("Leela Ratio" of say 2.5) beats heavily SF8, but loses slightly to SF10, from regular openings. Against SF8, it's similar to what happens in this paper. My guess is that this particular "old" A0 in those TCEC conditions is somewhat weaker than SF10.
Lc0 needs a "Leela Ratio" of 2.5 to have similar results to A0 ("Leela Ratio" 1 by definition), so Lc0 (with the best nets) is still lagging pretty significantly behind A0.
In some games it becomes apparent that they are fairly similar in playing style, strengths and weaknesses.
but have you tried the deepmind openings? it seems clear that the Zeros lose elo playing prescribed openings. Test30 already has excellent results against SF10 in my tests so far (https://lichess.org/study/FHjaPySh) i would expect the strongest test10 net to score better, but i believe it's gotten very close.

glennsamuel32
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Re: Alphazero news

Post by glennsamuel32 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:27 am

Matthew, could you divulge the size of the network file that A0 used ?

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