Yes, I know that. But then why is the engine self-rated below 1500 playing at 3250 level? It should be playing way below 1500 level, assuming that the rating of zero for random play is fair. I actually think that random play would be rated lower than zero if CCRL or CEGT tested it. Part of the answer is my hardware, but that hardly seems like a full explanation. Somehow it seems that self-play understates rating differences up to some level, then starts to overstate them beyond that level.Werewolf wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:40 pmSadly not 3250 + 1500. The self play ratings are..."not to scale" as an architect might put it.
Lc0 51010
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
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Re: Lc0 51010
Komodo rules!
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Re: Lc0 51010
Over 3000 Elo at only half a million games? Wow, that's insane.
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Re: Lc0 51010
WOW. Then these results are very very impressive.
After his son's birth they've asked him:
"Is it a boy or girl?"
YES! He replied.....
"Is it a boy or girl?"
YES! He replied.....
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Re: Lc0 51010
It is insane. Imagine poor Larry, all he learned in dozens of years is well surclassed by this dirt quick net using dirt basic monte carlo search.nabildanial wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:02 pm Over 3000 Elo at only half a million games? Wow, that's insane.
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Re: Lc0 51010
Larry,
The self-play elo used to be determined by playing consecutive nets against each other and calculating using Bayes ELO formula (I think). That approach resulted in rating inflation over time.
Nowadays a new net plays against a plethora of past nets and the ratings are calculated by running all games (between all nets) through ordo (https://github.com/michiguel/Ordo), with the first net anchored at zero elo. This results in much less rating inflation.
Fat Titz by Stockfish, the engine with the bodaciously big net. Remember: size matters. If you want to learn more about this engine just google for "Fat Titz".
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Re: Lc0 51010
Laskos wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:57 pmIt is insane. Imagine poor Larry, all he learned in dozens of years is well surclassed by this dirt quick net using dirt basic monte carlo search.nabildanial wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:02 pm Over 3000 Elo at only half a million games? Wow, that's insane.
This is not a sad thing. This is what many people in chess have strive to achieve for many reasons. As I chess player. I know we are flawed in our thinking when it comes to chess. And are assumptions are our worst enemy in chess play. This only makes us stronger for every class of chess player.
"The worst thing that can happen to a forum is a running wild attacking moderator(HGM) who is not corrected by the community." - Ed Schröder
But my words like silent raindrops fell. And echoed in the wells of silence.
But my words like silent raindrops fell. And echoed in the wells of silence.
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Re: Lc0 51010
Well, it is good in the sense that it understands that it is better to be down a piece than to be down two pieces or a queen, which the top rated networks (except the 11xxx ones) have a problem with. So it should be much more efficient in winning a clearly won game and put up much better resistance in a clearly losing game. But presumably this is at the price of playing less precisely in positions where the result is not yet clear.
Komodo rules!
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Re: Lc0 51010
I don't think that flawed thinking and wrong assumptions are the reason I (or any strong player) lose to 3000+ rated engines. The reason is that I struggle to search even one node per second! Of course my thinking and assumptions are far from perfect, I just don't think that they are worse than what engines "think" or "assume". Although I'm not sure I could beat Lc0 in a serious match even with it set to use policy network only, i.e. one node per move, so maybe my last sentence only applies to A/B engines.mwyoung wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:35 pmLaskos wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:57 pmIt is insane. Imagine poor Larry, all he learned in dozens of years is well surclassed by this dirt quick net using dirt basic monte carlo search.nabildanial wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:02 pm Over 3000 Elo at only half a million games? Wow, that's insane.
This is not a sad thing. This is what many people in chess have strive to achieve for many reasons. As I chess player. I know we are flawed in our thinking when it comes to chess. And are assumptions are our worst enemy in chess play. This only makes us stronger for every class of chess player.
Komodo rules!
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Re: Lc0 51010
I think we make many wrong assumptions in chess. Lets start with the biggest one.lkaufman wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:55 pmI don't think that flawed thinking and wrong assumptions are the reason I (or any strong player) lose to 3000+ rated engines. The reason is that I struggle to search even one node per second! Of course my thinking and assumptions are far from perfect, I just don't think that they are worse than what engines "think" or "assume". Although I'm not sure I could beat Lc0 in a serious match even with it set to use policy network only, i.e. one node per move, so maybe my last sentence only applies to A/B engines.mwyoung wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:35 pmLaskos wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:57 pmIt is insane. Imagine poor Larry, all he learned in dozens of years is well surclassed by this dirt quick net using dirt basic monte carlo search.nabildanial wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:02 pm Over 3000 Elo at only half a million games? Wow, that's insane.
This is not a sad thing. This is what many people in chess have strive to achieve for many reasons. As I chess player. I know we are flawed in our thinking when it comes to chess. And are assumptions are our worst enemy in chess play. This only makes us stronger for every class of chess player.
Chess is played out....
"The worst thing that can happen to a forum is a running wild attacking moderator(HGM) who is not corrected by the community." - Ed Schröder
But my words like silent raindrops fell. And echoed in the wells of silence.
But my words like silent raindrops fell. And echoed in the wells of silence.