The Last Survivor of AB engine, Stockfish! What position will Stockfish stand?

[mwyoung]

All I see is Leela times 3.
It's kinda sketchy that 3 basically the same engines are allowed like that.
If you add Brainfish, ASMfish, Thothfish with exchanging turned up and Sugar then the top 4 would probably be populated by AB engines again, but really it's just Stockfish with a different flavour times 4. Just like it's now Leela with a different flavour times 3.

And I think team Komodo shouldn't be allowed 2 participants either.

haha - you might as well have McCain, asmfish, matefinder, Sugar and Sting plays as well. LOL ( just kidding btw, I would not be in favor in that) I do agree with your point that this is getting a little ridiculous - meaning that it looks more like how I run my tournaments in my basement LOL

It is even worst then this. This is such a lopsided tournament in favor of the NN engines. I looked up the benchmark for the $6000 Intel Xeon Platinum 8168. And what a piece of dog crap for 6 grand. And they bought 2 pieces of dog crap. Below is my benchmark for my $800 2950x. For a extra $5000 you get a whopping 1.9% speed increase.

I test with 2950x vs 2080ti. And Lc0 already wins. In this tournament this would be like me adding x2 2080 ti.

This tournament is a total hardware mismatch for the NN engines.

Xeon Platinum 8168 @ 2.7Ghz.jpg

2950x @ 2.25ghz.jpg

[mwyoung]

2950x @ 2.25ghz.jpg

[corres]

During the match they use for AB engines a server with 90 threads (HT = on) CPUs clock frequency 2.7 GHz and for NN engines 4xRTX 2080 Ti and a server with 36 physical cores (HT = off).
The main issues for AB engines the short TC (5 min + 2sec) and they no use opening book.
It would be a wonder if Stockfish can win the race.
Obviously it is not the aim of the organizing.

[Modern Times]

It is even worst then this. This is such a lopsided tournament in favor of the NN engines.

Lc0 is very strong on insanely expensive hardware, no doubt about that. But in the real world, take an 8-core Ryzen at around £300 and an RTX 2060 at about £300 also - which is going to be the stronger engine ? Probably Stockfish ? And don't forget, Lc0 needs the CPU as well as the GPU !!

I take all of this "Lc0 is the strongest engine in the world, and A/B engines are dead" thing with a grain of salt.

[Nay Lin Tun]

During the match they use for AB engines a server with 90 threads (HT = on) CPUs clock frequency 2.7 GHz and for NN engines 4xRTX 2080 Ti and a server with 36 physical cores (HT = off).
The main issues for AB engines the short TC (5 min + 2sec) and they no use opening book.
It would be a wonder if Stockfish can win the race.
Obviously it is not the aim of the organizing.

They use 6 ply opening book in final.
( They dont use opening book in earlier stages)

FYI, there were previous tournments with exactly same hardware, similar blitz time control and similar opening books and SF won Leela marginally in last ccc6.

The main point is newer T40 is approximately +30,+40elo stronger ( stronger engine+ better network) than the previous one meanwhile SF gained 0 elo in the last 6 weeks.( LS is also improving, I dont know much about AF though)

I bet SF will likely be dethrone in TCEC final as well.

[mwyoung]

During the match they use for AB engines a server with 90 threads (HT = on) CPUs clock frequency 2.7 GHz and for NN engines 4xRTX 2080 Ti and a server with 36 physical cores (HT = off).
The main issues for AB engines the short TC (5 min + 2sec) and they no use opening book.
It would be a wonder if Stockfish can win the race.
Obviously it is not the aim of the organizing.

This is a testament to how really good Stockfish plays. With such obvious handicaps.

And when you split AB engine's work load 90 times to 90 threads. You are causing major overhead to the AB engine's real speed on this hardware. But it will look good to the public. When they see 90 CPU's, and huge NPS counts. And again this hardware is no match for 4x RTX 2080ti.

Was this done due to ignorance, or something else.

It looks to me the AB engines were setup to fail by the organizers.

[corres]

During the match they use for AB engines a server with 90 threads (HT = on) CPUs clock frequency 2.7 GHz and for NN engines 4xRTX 2080 Ti and a server with 36 physical cores (HT = off).
The main issues for AB engines the short TC (5 min + 2sec) and they no use opening book.
It would be a wonder if Stockfish can win the race.
Obviously it is not the aim of the organizing.

They use 6 ply opening book in final.
( They dont use opening book in earlier stages)
FYI, there were previous tournments with exactly same hardware, similar blitz time control and similar opening books and SF won Leela marginally in last ccc6.
The main point is newer T40 is approximately +30,+40elo stronger ( stronger engine+ better network) than the previous one meanwhile SF gained 0 elo in the last 6 weeks.( LS is also improving, I dont know much about AF though)

O.K.
So this is a demonstration of Elo enhancement of Leela.
That is all.

[jp]

It is even worst then this. This is such a lopsided tournament in favor of the NN engines. I looked up the benchmark for the $6000 Intel Xeon Platinum 8168. And what a piece of dog crap for 6 grand. And they bought 2 pieces of dog crap. Below is my benchmark for my $800 2950x. For a extra $5000 you get a whopping 1.9% speed increase.

This tournament is a total hardware mismatch for the NN engines.

What do you think is the best CPU performance they could have got for $6000 or $12000?

[Nay Lin Tun]

Update, after 36 games! My prediction is correct!! ( with more and more game, the gap between LCO and SF become larger and larger)!

[Leo]

During the match they use for AB engines a server with 90 threads (HT = on) CPUs clock frequency 2.7 GHz and for NN engines 4xRTX 2080 Ti and a server with 36 physical cores (HT = off).
The main issues for AB engines the short TC (5 min + 2sec) and they no use opening book.
It would be a wonder if Stockfish can win the race.
Obviously it is not the aim of the organizing.

This is a testament to how really good Stockfish plays. With such obvious handicaps.

And when you split AB engine's work load 90 times to 90 threads. You are causing major overhead to the AB engine's real speed on this hardware. But it will look good to the public. When they see 90 CPU's, and huge NPS counts. And again this hardware is no match for 4x RTX 2080ti.

Was this done due to ignorance, or something else.

It looks to me the AB engines were setup to fail by the organizers.

You make an interesting point about AB engines being split to much. How many cores do you recommend for optimal performance for a AB engine?