The Bryntse Gambit

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Dann Corbit
Posts: 12538
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Post by Dann Corbit »

bm is what is supposed to be the best move.
pm means the predicted move.
I do something really naughty and use pm in a way not defined by the standard.
This is what the EPD standard says:
"The "pm" opcode is used to provide a single predicted move for the indicated position. It has exactly one operand, a move playable from the position. This move is judged by the EPD writer to represent the best move available to the active player.

If a non-empty "pv" (predicted variation) line of play is also present in the same EPD record, the first move of the predicted variation is the same as the predicted move.

The "pm" opcode is intended for use as a general "display hint" mechanism."

However, that's downright silly. If the pm is just the first node of the pv, then it is utterly useless, since we already have it in the pv.
So I use the pm as follows:
If I do not have any statistics for the position, then I use the standard's definition of the pm, the first node of the pv.
But if I have data for the position, I provide all likely moves and the number of times that they occurred in actual games.
I also use the pm to hold all possible mating positions (if I have them).
For instance, Chest319 by Heiner Marxen will generate ALL mating moves of the minimum distance. So, if I have a position that is a direct mate in 6 moves and if I have 5 moves that all will lead to checkmate in 6, I put all 5 of them into the pm field.
Yes, pv is the principle variation. I just call it "the current plan" because that is what it is.

[d]rnbqkbnr/pp2pppp/8/2pp4/4PP2/8/PPPP2PP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - acd 42; bm exd5; c3 "Nf3"; cce -30; ce 3; pm exd5 {1567} Nc3 {495} e5 {229} d3 {152} Nf3 {49} Bb5+ {21}; white_wins 808; black_wins 971; draws 655; Opening ECO:B21i; Sicilian: Grand Prix, Tal Defence; 1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 *;
The field acd of 42 means that a computer searched to a depth of 42 plies.
The field c3 of Nf3 means that a recent game I was analyzing chose that move, or it was proposed as a best move by someone.
The field cce is my invention, and it approximates the ce of the engine search but it is calculated as a function of the wins, losses and draws for the position.
The field ce of 3 means that the computer thought the side to move (white in this case) was 3/100ths of a pawn ahead (basically a dranw position).
The field pm breaks down this way
exd5 was the most common move, occurring 1567 times in my database of high quality filtered games.
Nc3 was the next most common move, occurring 495 in my database.
etc. down to Bb5+ which was played on 21 times.

cce is invented by me.
pm is abused by me.
But that is what this stuff means.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
jp
Posts: 1470
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:54 am

Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Post by jp »

Nordlandia wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 9:50 am There is a very similar line.
[pgn] 1. f4 d5 2. Nf3 g6 3. e4 dxe4 4. Ng5 Nf6 5. Bc4 Bg4 6. Bxf7+ Kd7 7. Qxg4+ Nxg4 8. Be6+ Kc6 9. Bxg4 *[/pgn]
Yes, this looks like it might have some chance of appearing OTB.
SF, depth=27, evaluates this as (-1.99) with PV 9...Bg7 10. Nc3 h6, etc.

Nordlandia wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 4:15 pm Or by playing the scandinavian:
[pgn] 1. e4 d5 2. Nf3 dxe4 3. Ng5 Nf6 4. Bc4 Bg4 5. Bxf7+ Kd7 6. Qxg4+ Nxg4 7. Be6+ Kc6 8. Bxg4 * [/pgn]
This may not, though. e.g. after 3.Ng5, SF prefers all of 3... Bf5, 3...e5, 3...Nc6 and 3...e6, with advantage for Black.

If the line is followed to 5... Kd7, then White can get an advantage without sacrificing by playing 6.f3 exf3 7.gxf3 Bf5 8.Bb3. SF, depth=40, evaluates this as (+0.95).
Dann Corbit
Posts: 12538
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Post by Dann Corbit »

jp wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 3:50 pm This may not, though. e.g. after 3.Ng5, SF prefers all of 3... Bf5, 3...e5, 3...Nc6 and 3...e6, with advantage for Black.

If the line is followed to 5... Kd7, then White can get an advantage without sacrificing by playing 6.f3 exf3 7.gxf3 Bf5 8.Bb3. SF, depth=40, evaluates this as (+0.95).
[d]rnbqkbnr/ppp1pppp/8/6N1/4p3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - acd 36; bm e5; c3 "Nf6"; cce 187; ce 110; pm Bf5 {7} e5 {6} Nf6 {5} Qd5 {1}; pv e5; white_wins 4; black_wins 12; draws 3;

I have Nf6 as a plausible alternative that happens in real games.
Bf5 and e5 are safer responses in this position, but gambit players like risk.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
Dann Corbit
Posts: 12538
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Post by Dann Corbit »

Here are all the correspondence chess games I have involving the Bryntse Gambit:

[pgn] [Event "Western States Open, Reno 2006"] [Site "?"] [Date "2006.??.??"] [Round "?"] [White "Mackenzie, Dana N"] [Black "Pruess, David"] [Result "1-0"] [WhiteElo "2117"] [BlackElo "2391"] [ECO "A03"] [Variation "Sicilian"] [Annotator "Tim Harding"] [PlyCount "91"] [WhiteTeamCountry "CZE"] [BlackTeamCountry "NED"] 1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 3.Nf3 dxe4 4.Ng5 Nf6 5.Bc4 Bg4 6.Qxg4 Nxg4 7.Bxf7+ Kd7 8. Be6+ Kc6 9.Bxg4 e6 10.Nc3 Na6 11.a3 Bd6 12.O-O Nc7 13.Ncxe4 Qe7 14.Nxd6 Qxd6 15.d3 Raf8 16.Bf3+ Kd7 17.c3 Nd5 18.g3 h6 19.Ne4 Qc7 20.b4 cxb4 21. axb4 b6 22.Bd2 Rf7 23.c4 Nf6 24.Bc3 Ke7 25.Be5 Qd7 26.Nd6 Rd8 27.Nxf7 Kxf7 28.d4 Kg6 29.g4 Rc8 30.c5 Qb5 31.Rxa7 Qd3 32.h4 h5 33.g5 Ne8 34.Kg2 b5 35. Re1 Kf5 36.Be4+ Qxe4+ 37.Rxe4 Kxe4 38.Ra5 Nc7 39.Bxg7 Kxf4 40.Be5+ Kg4 41. g6 Kxh4 42.g7 Rg8 43.Ra7 Nd5 44.Rf7 Ne3+ 45.Kf3 Ng4 46.c6 1-0 [Event "GB/Si2015"] [Site "ICCF"] [Date "2015.10.23"] [Round "?"] [White "Wilkinson, David (Birmingham)"] [Black "Sherwood, Russell"] [Result "0-1"] [BlackElo "2310"] [ECO "A03"] [EventDate "2015.??.??"] [PlyCount "70"] [EventType "schev"] [EventRounds "1"] [EventCountry "ENG"] [SourceTitle "OM Corr 201802"] [Source "Opening Master"] [SourceDate "2018.03.06"] [SourceVersion "2"] [SourceVersionDate "2018.03.06"] [SourceQuality "1"] [WhiteTeam "Warwickshire C"] [BlackTeam "West Wales A"] 1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 3.Nf3 dxe4 4.Ng5 Nf6 5.Bc4 Bg4 6.Qxg4 Nxg4 7.Bxf7+ Kd7 8. Be6+ Kc6 9.Bxg4 e5 10.Nf7 Qe8 11.Nxh8 exf4 12.Nc3 Nd7 13.O-O Nf6 14.Be2 a6 15.d3 Bd6 16.dxe4 g5 17.g3 Kb6 18.Nf7 Qxf7 19.gxf4 Qg6 20.Kh1 Rg8 21.Bd2 gxf4 22.Rg1 Qe8 23.Rxg8 Qxg8 24.Bf3 Be5 25.Nd5+ Nxd5 26.exd5 Qg6 27.Re1 Qxc2 28.Rxe5 Qxd2 29.Re2 Qd3 30.Kg2 c4 31.Kf2 Kc5 32.Kg2 b5 33.Kf2 b4 34. a3 bxa3 35.bxa3 c3 0-1 [Event "RA-2013-0-00306"] [Site "Lechenicher SchachServer"] [Date "2013.12.30"] [Round "?"] [White "Krol, Wladyslaw"] [Black "Husemann, Andreas"] [Result "0-1"] [WhiteElo "1967"] [BlackElo "2072"] [ECO "A03"] [EventDate "2013.12.06"] [PlyCount "72"] [EventType "swiss"] [SourceTitle "OM Corr 201802"] [Source "Opening Master"] [SourceDate "2018.03.06"] [SourceVersion "2"] [SourceVersionDate "2018.03.06"] [SourceQuality "1"] 1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 3.Nf3 dxe4 4.Ng5 Nf6 5.Bc4 Bg4 6.Qxg4 Nxg4 7.Bxf7+ Kd7 8. Be6+ Kc6 9.Bxg4 e6 10.Nc3 Bd6 11.O-O Nd7 12.Nxe6 Qe7 13.b4 Nf6 14.b5+ Kb6 15.a4 a5 16.Bh3 c4 17.Re1 Bc5+ 18.Nxc5 Qxc5+ 19.d4 Qb4 20.Bd2 Rhe8 21.Nd5+ Nxd5 22.Bxb4 axb4 23.g3 Nc3 24.Bf1 Rac8 25.Kf2 Ka5 26.Re3 Nd5 27.Bg2 b3 28.c3 Rcd8 29.Bf1 Rd6 30.Rc1 Rh6 31.Re2 Rxh2+ 32.Bg2 Nxc3 33.Rxc3 Kb4 34. Rc1 c3 35.a5 b2 36.Rce1 e3+ 0-1 [Event "POL MP 47. corr"] [Site "Poland"] [Date "2004.??.??"] [Round "?"] [White "Krol, Wladyslaw"] [Black "Zielinski, Miroslaw"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] [ECO "A03"] [EventDate "2004.01.15"] [PlyCount "85"] [EventType "tourn (corr)"] [EventRounds "13"] [EventCountry "POL"] [SourceTitle "OM Corr 201802"] [Source "Opening Master"] [SourceDate "2018.03.06"] [SourceVersion "2"] [SourceVersionDate "2018.03.06"] [SourceQuality "1"] 1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 3.Nf3 dxe4 4.Ng5 Nf6 5.Bc4 Bg4 6.Qxg4 Nxg4 7.Bxf7+ Kd7 8. Be6+ Kc6 9.Bxg4 e6 10.Nc3 Na6 11.a3 Qf6 12.O-O h5 13.Be2 Be7 14.Ncxe4 Qf5 15.b4 Kb6 16.Bc4 Bxg5 17.Nxg5 Rhe8 18.d3 Nc7 19.Be3 Kc6 20.Nf3 b6 21.bxc5 bxc5 22.Ne5+ Kd6 23.d4 Nd5 24.Bd3 Qf8 25.dxc5+ Kc7 26.Bd4 Ne7 27.c3 Rab8 28.Rae1 h4 29.Rf2 Qg8 30.a4 Nf5 31.Bb5 Nxd4 32.cxd4 a6 33.Bxa6 Rb4 34.Nf3 Qf8 35.Bb5 Re7 36.Nxh4 Qf6 37.Nf3 Rxd4 38.Nxd4 Qxd4 39.Re5 Rf7 40.g3 Rf5 41.Rxf5 exf5 42.c6 Kb6 43.h3 1/2-1/2 [Event "CL3"] [Site "IECC"] [Date "2003.12.28"] [Round "?"] [White "Evans, Craig"] [Black "Tew, Paul"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] [WhiteElo "1952"] [BlackElo "1980"] [ECO "A03"] [EventDate "2003.??.??"] [PlyCount "49"] [EventType "game"] [SourceTitle "OM Corr 201802"] [Source "Opening Master"] [SourceDate "2018.03.06"] [SourceVersion "2"] [SourceVersionDate "2018.03.06"] [SourceQuality "1"] 1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 3.Nf3 dxe4 4.Ng5 Nf6 5.Bc4 Bg4 6.Qxg4 Nxg4 7.Bxf7+ Kd7 8. Be6+ Kc6 9.Bxg4 e6 10.Nc3 Bd6 11.O-O Rf8 12.d3 Na6 13.Nxe6 Qh4 14.Be2 Nb4 15.dxe4 a6 16.e5 Be7 17.Be3 Qh6 18.Nxf8 Rxf8 19.Rad1 Nxc2 20.Bf3+ Kc7 21. Bf2 Qe6 22.Nd5+ Kb8 23.b4 Nxb4 24.Nxe7 Qxe7 25.e6 1/2-1/2 [Event "EM/H/069"] [Site "ICCF Email"] [Date "2001.10.20"] [Round "?"] [White "Krol, Wladyslaw"] [Black "Hueser, Udo"] [Result "1-0"] [WhiteElo "2106"] [BlackElo "2049"] [ECO "A03"] [EventDate "2001.??.??"] [PlyCount "75"] [SourceTitle "OM Corr 201802"] [Source "Opening Master"] [SourceDate "2018.03.06"] [SourceVersion "2"] [SourceVersionDate "2018.03.06"] [SourceQuality "1"] 1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 3.Nf3 dxe4 4.Ng5 Nf6 5.Bc4 Bg4 6.Qxg4 Nxg4 7.Bxf7+ Kd7 8. Be6+ Kc7 9.Bxg4 Qe8 10.Ne6+ Kb6 11.Na3 a6 12.d3 exd3 13.Be3 Ka7 14.O-O-O Qg6 15.Bh3 dxc2 16.Rd8 Qe4 17.Re1 b6 18.Nxc5 Qc6 19.Nd7 e5 20.Nxf8 Qf6 21. Rc8 Kb7 22.Nc4 Rxf8 23.fxe5 Qe7 24.Nd6+ Qxd6 25.exd6 Rxc8 26.Bxc8+ Kxc8 27.Rf1 Nc6 28.Rf7 Ra7 29.Rxa7 Nxa7 30.Bxb6 Nc6 31.Kxc2 Kd7 32.Bc7 Nd4+ 33. Kc3 Nb5+ 34.Kc4 Nxc7 35.dxc7 Kxc7 36.Kc5 Kb7 37.b4 g6 38.a4 1-0 [Event "EM/H/069"] [Site "ICCF Email"] [Date "2001.10.20"] [Round "?"] [White "Krol, Wladyslaw"] [Black "Stroeher, Rudolf (OST)"] [Result "1-0"] [WhiteElo "2106"] [BlackElo "2092"] [ECO "A03"] [EventDate "2001.??.??"] [PlyCount "33"] [SourceTitle "OM Corr 201802"] [Source "Opening Master"] [SourceDate "2018.03.06"] [SourceVersion "2"] [SourceVersionDate "2018.03.06"] [SourceQuality "1"] 1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 3.Nf3 dxe4 4.Ng5 Nf6 5.Bc4 Bg4 6.Qxg4 Nxg4 7.Bxf7+ Kd7 8. Be6+ Kc6 9.Bxg4 Qd6 10.d3 exd3 11.Nc3 Qg6 12.f5 Qe8 13.Ne6 dxc2 14.Bf3+ Kd7 15.Bxb7 Nc6 16.Ne4 Rb8 17.N4xc5+ 1-0 [Event "NPSF/M/19"] [Site "corr Norway"] [Date "2000.??.??"] [Round "?"] [White "Fagerbekk, Egil"] [Black "Jernberg, Karl-Petter"] [Result "1-0"] [ECO "A03"] [EventDate "2000.??.??"] [PlyCount "53"] [SourceTitle "OM Corr 201802"] [Source "Opening Master"] [SourceDate "2018.03.06"] [SourceVersion "2"] [SourceVersionDate "2018.03.06"] [SourceQuality "1"] 1.f4 c5 2.Nf3 d5 3.e4 dxe4 4.Ng5 Nf6 5.Bc4 Bg4 6.Qxg4 Nxg4 7.Bxf7+ Kd7 8. Be6+ Kc6 9.Bxg4 Qe8 10.Nc3 e5 11.O-O exf4 12.Rxf4 Qe5 13.Rxe4 Qxg5 14.d4 Qd8 15.Bf4 cxd4 16.Rd1 g5 17.Re6+ Bd6 18.Bf3+ Kc7 19.Bxd6+ Kc8 20.Nd5 h5 21.Be4 Qa5 22.Bf5 Nd7 23.Rxd4 Qxa2 24.Re7 Rd8 25.Nb4 Qa1+ 26.Kf2 b5 27.Rd5 1-0 [Event "Corr SWE-28ch"] [Site "?"] [Date "1968.??.??"] [Round "?"] [White "Bryntse Arne (SWE)"] [Black "Osterling Gosta (SWE)"] [Result "1-0"] [ECO "A03"] [Classes "0"] [TimeControl "?"] 1.f4 d5 2.Nf3 c5 3.e4 dxe4 4.Ng5 Nf6 5.Bc4 Bg4 6.Qxg4 Nxg4 7.Bxf7+ Kd7 8. Be6+ Kc6 9.Bxg4 e6 10.Nc3 Bd6 11.O-O Rf8 12.d3 Na6 13.Nxe6 Qh4 14.Be2 Nb4 15.dxe4 a6 16.Bd1 Rf6 17.g3 Rg6 18.Kg2 Qe7 19.f5 Rxe6 20.fxe6 a5 21.a3 Na6 22.e5 Qxe6 23.exd6 Kb6 24.Bf3 h6 25.Bf4 g5 26.Rae1 Qg6 27.Re7 Rb8 28.d7 Rd8 29.Be4 Qg8 30.Be5 1-0 [Event "Corr SWE-31ch"] [Site "?"] [Date "1971.??.??"] [Round "?"] [White "Bryntse Arne (SWE)"] [Black "Osterling Gosta (SWE)"] [Result "1-0"] [ECO "A03"] [Classes "0"] [TimeControl "?"] 1.f4 d5 2.Nf3 c5 3.e4 dxe4 4.Ng5 Nf6 5.Bc4 Bg4 6.Qxg4 Nxg4 7.Bxf7+ Kd7 8. Be6+ Kc6 9.Bxg4 e6 10.Nc3 Nd7 11.Bxe6 Nf6 12.Nf7 Qe8 13.Bc4 a6 14.Nxh8 b5 15.Bf7 Qc8 16.Nxe4 Nxe4 17.Bh5 Qe6 18.Nf7 Kc7 19.Ne5 Qf5 20.Bf3 Re8 21.d3 Ng5 22.O-O Bd6 23.Bg4 Qf6 24.Bd2 h5 25.Bxh5 Rh8 26.Bg4 Qh6 27.h3 Bxe5 28. fxg5 Qd6 29.Rae1 Bd4+ 30.Kh1 Rf8 31.Ba5+ Kb8 32.Rxf8+ Qxf8 33.Bf3 Qf7 34. c3 Bf2 35.g6 Qxg6 36.Re7 Bg3 37.Rd7 Bh4 38.Rb7+ Kc8 39.Rb6 Qxd3 40.Bg4+ Kc7 41.Rf6+ Kb8 42.Rf8+ Ka7 43.Bf3 1-0 [Event "RA.2001.0.00006"] [Site "IECG"] [Date "2001.09.23"] [Round "?"] [White "Krol, Wladyslaw"] [Black "Fabri Peter"] [Result "1-0"] [WhiteElo "2106"] [ECO "A03"] [Classes "0"] [TimeControl "?"] 1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 3.Nf3 dxe4 4.Ng5 Nf6 5.Bc4 Bg4 6.Qxg4 Nxg4 7.Bxf7+ Kd7 8. Be6+ Kc6 9.Bxg4 e6 10.Nc3 Na6 11.Ncxe4 Nb4 12.Kd1 Kb6 13.d3 Qe8 14.Re1 Be7 15.Nc3 a6 16.Nxe6 Qf7 17.Be3 Rae8 18.a3 Nc6 19.Ne4 Ka7 20.N6xc5 b6 21.Ne6 Bh4 22.g3 Rxe6 23.Bxe6 Qxe6 24.gxh4 Ne7 25.Rg1 g6 26.a4 Qh3 27.Bf2 a5 28. Bg3 Qg4+ 29.Kc1 Nd5 30.Nc3 Nxc3 31.bxc3 Rc8 32.Kb2 Qd7 33.Rge1 Ka6 34.Re5 h5 35.Ra3 Re8 36.Bf2 Rxe5 37.fxe5 Kb7 38.Rb3 Qxa4 39.Rxb6+ Kc7 40.e6 Qe8 41.Bc5 a4 42.e7 1-0 [Event "RA.2001.0.00006"] [Site "IECG"] [Date "2001.09.23"] [Round "?"] [White "Krol, Wladyslaw"] [Black "Sakai, Kiyotaka"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] [WhiteElo "2106"] [BlackElo "2367"] [ECO "A03"] [Classes "0"] [TimeControl "?"] 1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 3.Nf3 dxe4 4.Ng5 Nf6 5.Bc4 Bg4 6.Qxg4 Nxg4 7.Bxf7+ Kd7 8. Be6+ Kc6 9.Bxg4 Qd6 10.d3 Na6 11.dxe4 Qg6 12.O-O e5 13.Nc3 Nb4 14.Be6 Nxc2 15.Bd5+ Kc7 16.Rb1 Be7 17.Bf7 Qc6 18.Nd5+ Kd7 19.Be6+ Ke8 20.fxe5 c4 21. Rf7 Qc5+ 22.Be3 Nxe3 23.b4 cxb3 24.Rxe7+ Qxe7 25.Nxe7 Kxe7 26.Rxb3 b5 27. Rxe3 h6 28.Bd5 hxg5 29.Bxa8 Rxa8 30.Rc3 Ke6 31.Kf2 b4 32.Rc6+ Kxe5 33.Ke3 a5 34.Rc5+ Ke6 35.Rb5 g4 36.g3 Kd6 37.Kd4 Rh8 38.Rxa5 Rxh2 39.Ra6+ Ke7 40. Ke5 Rf2 41.Ra7+ Kf8 42.Ra4 Rf3 43.Ke6 1/2-1/2 [Event "CA.2001.0.00020"] [Site "IECG"] [Date "2001.10.01"] [Round "?"] [White "Krol, Wladyslaw"] [Black "Monasterio Manuel Gerardo (ARG)"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] [WhiteElo "2106"] [BlackElo "1919"] [ECO "A03"] [Classes "0"] [TimeControl "?"] 1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 3.Nf3 dxe4 4.Ng5 Nf6 5.Bc4 Bg4 6.Qxg4 Nxg4 7.Bxf7+ Kd7 8. Be6+ Kc6 9.Bxg4 e6 10.Nc3 Bd6 11.g3 Nd7 12.Nf7 Qe7 13.Nxh8 Nf6 14.Bh3 Rxh8 15.Bg2 Kc7 16.Nxe4 Nxe4 17.Bxe4 h5 18.d3 h4 19.Bd2 hxg3 1/2-1/2 [/pgn]
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
Dann Corbit
Posts: 12538
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Post by Dann Corbit »

I currently have 2146 positions for this opening in my main EPD database.
Might grow, with some more investigation.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
jp
Posts: 1470
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:54 am

Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Post by jp »

Dann Corbit wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 11:06 pm rnbqkbnr/ppp1pppp/8/6N1/4p3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - acd 36; bm e5; c3 "Nf6"; cce 187; ce 110; pm Bf5 {7} e5 {6} Nf6 {5} Qd5 {1}; pv e5; white_wins 4; black_wins 12; draws 3;

I have Nf6 as a plausible alternative that happens in real games.
Bf5 and e5 are safer responses in this position, but gambit players like risk.
Gambit players like risk, but Black is not the gambit player!

White is the gambit player, but I don't know it makes sense to refuse to play 6.f3 when you get a pawn advantage, and Black's King on d7, for free.
jp
Posts: 1470
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:54 am

Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Post by jp »

Dann Corbit wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 11:06 pm
jp wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 3:50 pm e.g. after 3.Ng5, SF prefers all of 3... Bf5, 3...e5, 3...Nc6 and 3...e6, with advantage for Black.
pm Bf5 {7} e5 {6} Nf6 {5} Qd5 {1};

I have Nf6 as a plausible alternative that happens in real games.
I guess Black players who don't know or care what SF thinks may play 3...Nf6, but how many Black players will play 4...Bg4 here?

[d]rnbqkb1r/ppp1pppp/5n2/6N1/2B1p3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQK2R b KQkq - 3 4

SF prefers 4...e6, (-0.35), depth=31, but Black doesn't need SF to see that f6 is a move that makes Bg4 dubious.
Dann Corbit
Posts: 12538
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Post by Dann Corbit »

If we only play optimally, we only get to 1.c4
So I guess the assumption is that we get to the gambit position, by hook or by crook.
It's all the way out here:
[d]rn1qkb1r/pp2pppp/8/2p3N1/2B1pPn1/8/PPPP2PP/RNB1K2R w KQkq -
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
jp
Posts: 1470
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:54 am

Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Post by jp »

I don't disagree that the assumption is we get there. It's just that some hooks and crooks look much more likely than others. The first two routes look more likely than the Scandinavian one, which requires some dubious moves by both sides (apart from whether the sacrifice itself is dubious).
jp
Posts: 1470
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:54 am

Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Post by jp »

[d]rnbqkb1r/ppp2ppp/4pn2/6N1/2B1p3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQK2R w KQkq - 0 5

Here's a game with 1... d5, 2...dxe4, 3...Nf6, 4...e6 that White drew with a GM:

[pgn][Event "Dortmund open"] [Site "Dortmund op"] [Round "2"] [Date "1995.7.??"] [White "Opalka, Guido"] [Black "Smagin, Sergey"] [WhiteElo "2220"] [BlackElo "2545"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] 1.e4 d5 2.Nf3 dxe4 3.Ng5 Nf6 4.Bc4 e6 5.Nc3 Bd7 6.Ngxe4 Bc6 7.Qe2 Nbd7 8.Ng5 Qe7 9.f4 Nb6 10.Bb3 a5 11.a4 Nbd5 12.d3 h6 13.Nf3 Qb4 14.Qd2 Qb6 15.Qe2 Bb4 16.Bd2 O-O 17.Ne5 Rfe8 18.Rf1 Bc5 19.Nc4 Qa6 20.Ne4 Bb4 21.c3 Bf8 22.g4 Nxe4 23.dxe4 Nf6 24.Bc2 b5 25.Ne5 b4 26.Qxa6 Rxa6 27.Bd3 Bb7 28.Bxa6 Bxa6 29.Rf3 Nxe4 30.cxb4 axb4 31.Rc1 c5 32.Be3 Be7 33.Rh3 Rc8 34.Rd1 Nf6 35.Bc1 c4 36.g5 Nd5 37.gxh6 gxh6 38.Rxh6 c3 39.Rxd5 Bf8 40.Ra5 Bxh6 41.bxc3 Bb7 42.Rb5 Bd5 43.Rxb4 Bf8 44.Rb5 Rxc3 45.Bb2 Rc8 46.Nd7 Be7 47.Nb6 Rc2 48.Nxd5 exd5 49.a5 Rc4 50.Rxd5 Rxf4 51.Bd4 Bb4+ 52.Ke2 Bxa5 53.Ke3 Bc7 54.Rd7 Rxd4 55.Kxd4 Bxh2 1/2-1/2[/pgn]