Question on current LC0 development

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Peter Berger
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:56 pm

Question on current LC0 development

Post by Peter Berger » Tue May 14, 2019 10:04 am

The 40000 design is easy to understand in a +very+ general way setup-wise from a lay viewpoint: it will lead to an extremely strong engine on current top nodge hardware.

But I fail to understand what the 50000 series really is about. The resulting engines are very easy to use for me ( I can only use the BLAS versions anyway, as my computer is old), and it is easy to perceive that it is hitting at *something*. But what is it? Is there some discussion group or BLOG that explains the test design and goals? Can someone provide a link? I failed to find it for myself.

Btw - and on a sidenode: the discussion in this other thread is meaningless IMHO. Maybe Magnus Carlsen could come up with a definition of "tactical" and "positional" that would be relevant when it is about the difference between LCO and Stockfish chesswise. For ordinary earthlings the only sensible thing to say is that LCO plays stronger in some positions, Stockfish in others. LC0 is certainly very competent in +some+ tactical situations.

brianr
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:01 pm

Re: Question on current LC0 development

Post by brianr » Tue May 14, 2019 10:36 am

The 4xxxx series is the main line of nets. The 5xxxx series is for testing changes on smaller nets that can be trained and evaluated in test matches much faster as they are smaller (although able to hold less information). See:
https://github.com/LeelaChessZero/lc0/w ... ct-History

dkappe
Posts: 235
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:52 pm
Full name: Dietrich Kappe

Re: Question on current LC0 development

Post by dkappe » Tue May 14, 2019 8:33 pm

Also, if you are running on blas on old hardware, you may want to check out the distilled nets.

https://github.com/dkappe/leela-chess-w ... d-Networks

jp
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:54 am

Re: Question on current LC0 development

Post by jp » Tue May 14, 2019 10:14 pm

Peter Berger wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:04 am
I can only use the BLAS versions anyway, as my computer is old
dkappe wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:33 pm
Also, if you are running on blas on old hardware, you may want to check out the distilled nets.
How old is "old" with respect to needing to use BLAS or distilled nets?

MikeB
Posts: 3389
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:34 am
Location: Pen Argyl, Pennsylvania

Re: Question on current LC0 development

Post by MikeB » Thu May 16, 2019 4:13 am

jp wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:14 pm
Peter Berger wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:04 am
I can only use the BLAS versions anyway, as my computer is old
dkappe wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:33 pm
Also, if you are running on blas on old hardware, you may want to check out the distilled nets.
How old is "old" with respect to needing to use BLAS or distilled nets?
Blas generally means any CPU, doesn't have to be old. They are also excellent nets for run of the mill video cards using OpenCL that cam see 700-1000 nps. Much better than any of the big nets that really require a high end GPU to run effectively. My run of the mill AMD card does use Open CL and can see about 700 to 1000 noded per second - using one the smaller nets referenced by dkappe plays above World Champion level , except for the long drawn out endgame play and it plays better with the smaller nets than the bigger nets. The speed referenced above of 700 to 1000 nps is for the big nets, with the smaller nets it's about 3000 nps or higher - much more effective with the smaller nets. About equal to Stockfish playing about 80,000 nps =- which is WC level.

Peter Berger
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:56 pm

Re: Question on current LC0 development

Post by Peter Berger » Sat May 25, 2019 11:45 am

dkappe wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:33 pm
Also, if you are running on blas on old hardware, you may want to check out the distilled nets.

https://github.com/dkappe/leela-chess-w ... d-Networks
I have checked them out. I am only running games at very slow time controls ( like game in 2 hours 10 sec increment), and though the speed of LC0 on my computer is like 60-70NPS only, the latest networks appear to be stronger stronger than the distilled ones for me.

Peter

Peter Berger
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:56 pm

Re: Question on current LC0 development

Post by Peter Berger » Sat May 25, 2019 11:45 am

jp wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:14 pm
Peter Berger wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:04 am
I can only use the BLAS versions anyway, as my computer is old
dkappe wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:33 pm
Also, if you are running on blas on old hardware, you may want to check out the distilled nets.
How old is "old" with respect to needing to use BLAS or distilled nets?
My laptop doesn't have a graphic card at all :D .

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