ChessBase's prophecy of 2004 fulfilled in 2019

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Laskos
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Re: ChessBase's prophecy of 2004 fulfilled in 2019

Post by Laskos » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:50 am

Milos wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:06 pm
Laskos wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:48 pm
I myself was surprised, but Texel 1.07 at 4000 nodes/ move I speculated pretty firmly to be in 2000-2100 FIDE Elo range at 45min + 15s. Can you beat or draw consistently Texel at 4000 nodes/move at this TC? If not, then the result might be an artifact due to Texel's inability to capitalize on tactics and endgame. Also, 42580 with a bit less than 100 nodes/move beat Fruit 2.1 at blitz. Fruit at blitz is about 2800 FIDE blitz level, a very tough nut. Again, Fruit level might not translate into human level against Lc0.
I haven't tried Texel, but what I tried is SF with QS only i.e. depth=1 and I know I have struggled most of the time to even hold a draw (SF with QS only would punish each of my tactical blunders ruthlessly). And Lc0 with 11xxx net and no search was slightly better than SF with only QS.
Well, just checked, 42580 at 1 node is equal to SF_dev (1 thread) depth = 8 :shock: .
SF depth 3 easily beats me (I think I am ~1700 FIDE or so), so the result is outstanding, pointing to above 2000 Fide level of 42580 1 node. Maybe you played the first run of Leela with those much weaker 15x192 nets? I remember "KingCrusher" (2200 FIDE blitz?) on YouTube playing those, and progressively he started to have difficulties against them, but at some 100 nodes, not 1. There seem some intransitivity, human players might have more difficulties against tactically astute AB engines of similar level than against Kimo's positional play, but tactical misses.

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Laskos
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Re: ChessBase's prophecy of 2004 fulfilled in 2019

Post by Laskos » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:57 am

corres wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:37 pm
Please, see:
2004 APRIL FIRST!
It was a joke only...
(and nothing prophecy)
No, "Kimo" was a very serious project, it is said that for security considerations they had to keep it secret, and only when this field of research became mainstream in the open, did they release it in 2019. Here are further explanations from ChessBase (soon after the authors had to retract the project for security reasons, some of them went to jail):

https://en.chessbase.com/post/kimo-unma ... ach-to-che

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Ovyron
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Re: ChessBase's prophecy of 2004 fulfilled in 2019

Post by Ovyron » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:11 pm

Laskos wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:57 am
No, "Kimo" was a very serious project, it is said that for security considerations they had to keep it secret, and only when this field of research became mainstream in the open, did they release it in 2019. Here are further explanations from ChessBase (soon after the authors had to retract the project for security reasons, some of them went to jail):

https://en.chessbase.com/post/kimo-unma ... ach-to-che
You didn't pay attention :)

Look at this part:
The diagram positions included in the article actually occurred in test games played between Kimo and the programs mentioned (Deep Junior, Deep Fritz). Kimo played two matches in January and November 2003 and actually did hold each of these rival products to a draw. Further information on the matches may be found here and here.
Meaning Kimo was in reality Gary Kasparov :mrgreen:
Make someone happy today.

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Laskos
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Re: ChessBase's prophecy of 2004 fulfilled in 2019

Post by Laskos » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:32 am

Ovyron wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:11 pm
Laskos wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:57 am
No, "Kimo" was a very serious project, it is said that for security considerations they had to keep it secret, and only when this field of research became mainstream in the open, did they release it in 2019. Here are further explanations from ChessBase (soon after the authors had to retract the project for security reasons, some of them went to jail):

https://en.chessbase.com/post/kimo-unma ... ach-to-che
You didn't pay attention :)

Look at this part:
The diagram positions included in the article actually occurred in test games played between Kimo and the programs mentioned (Deep Junior, Deep Fritz). Kimo played two matches in January and November 2003 and actually did hold each of these rival products to a draw. Further information on the matches may be found here and here.
Meaning Kimo was in reality Gary Kasparov :mrgreen:
Why spoiling an idea with a truth? Everybody knows by now that Kasparov received help from Kimo during those matches. He himself acknowledges that (albeit jokingly) in his book of 2007. But jokes aside, people were jailed (then released) for trying to release "Kimo" in 2004.

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Ovyron
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Re: ChessBase's prophecy of 2004 fulfilled in 2019

Post by Ovyron » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:11 pm

Laskos wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:32 am
Everybody knows by now that Kasparov received help from Kimo during those matches.
Not really, it turns out Kasparov has never cheated by using a program like Kimo while playing chess, and the positions mentioned in the article were outside Kasparov's preparation so Kimo couldn't have anything to do with them (unless they're the same entity, but we know Kasparov is not Leela, so Kimo couldn't be Leela.)

It seems to me you need to start using [Joke]tags[/Joke], as it seems in this thread you were really serious about Kimo being Leela 15 years ago.
Make someone happy today.

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Laskos
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Re: ChessBase's prophecy of 2004 fulfilled in 2019

Post by Laskos » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:27 pm

Ovyron wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:11 pm
Laskos wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:32 am
Everybody knows by now that Kasparov received help from Kimo during those matches.
Not really, it turns out Kasparov has never cheated by using a program like Kimo while playing chess, and the positions mentioned in the article were outside Kasparov's preparation so Kimo couldn't have anything to do with them (unless they're the same entity, but we know Kasparov is not Leela, so Kimo couldn't be Leela.)

It seems to me you need to start using [Joke]tags[/Joke], as it seems in this thread you were really serious about Kimo being Leela 15 years ago.
Man, the prophecy was great, why spoiling it with useless truths?

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Re: ChessBase's prophecy of 2004 fulfilled in 2019

Post by supersharp77 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:09 pm

Laskos wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:32 am
Everybody knows by now that Kasparov received help from Kimo during those matches.
Not really, it turns out Kasparov has never cheated by using a program like Kimo while playing chess, and the positions mentioned in the article were outside Kasparov's preparation so Kimo couldn't have anything to do with them (unless they're the same entity, but we know Kasparov is not Leela, so Kimo couldn't be Leela.)

It seems to me you need to start using [Joke]tags[/Joke], as it seems in this thread you were really serious about Kimo being Leela 15 years ago.
[/quote]

Man, the prophecy was great, why spoiling it with useless truths?
[/quote]

[/quote]
https://en.chessbase.com/post/kimo-unma ... ach-to-che

Eric Smith, MO
I don't care how much it costs, I must have this program! Plus the 1 year membership to playchess is a real bargain. You will find a blank cashier's check enclosed, just fill in the price. Next-day Air is preferable. I am currently tearing apart my CD-ROM drive to modify it to fit Garry Kimovich inside. I am ordering a year's supply of Russian cuisine to be piped to my home, as well as downloading all ethnic Russian music in mp3 format from the year 1804 to present. Must make him happy in order to get maximum chess playing ability. You got me last year with the mouse implant thing (I was like "Honey, come look at this! This is amazing!"). I was even telling the guys at work about it the other night, and wondering what you would come up with this year. I'll confess that I read the whole article and was on my way to work before I went "Hey, I know where I've seen those games before!" Sweet!

Sunny Nahata, USA
Well, looks like this is the April Fools joke this year. Does Kimo stand for Kasparov? All games shown are from Kasparov vs. Deep Junior or Fritz. If this is a joke, this better be your last one coz I am coming to bash you guys

Adam Smith, Denver, USA
I would really like a copy of Kimo, it sounds like a computer program that would do exceptionally well against top humans. A program that would perform consistently at the top of the super GM touraments with maybe one ocassional lose to the young generation and missed wins turned into draws here and there. But why stop at using the program just for chess playing. I bet it could write some great books, and I think it might be able to use its resources in Russian politics (but we might have to wait and see how that turns out).

Stephan Taylor, Australia
Great news on KIMO. Maybe on April 2nd, you can get Kasparovs' opinion on this.

We did. He thought it was hilarious. (Kimo has advanced humour heuristics).[/quote]

Hahahaha..... Hilarious!! :D :wink:

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