buying a new computer

[Daniel Shawul]

I am going to try and build the pc myself -- never built one before but watching lots of youtube videos has given me confidence. Fingers crossed I don't toast one of the components since i seem to be highly charged.

The 3900x was out of stock yesterday but managed to buy one today on newegg. Based on pc part picker i need to spend atleast 1500$ before tax if I pair it with an RTX 2070 super. I am going for a cheap X570 motherboard but maybe i should go for a solid X470 without PCIe 4.0 since i probably will not have any use for the extra SSD speed. 16GB 3200 ram.

Daniel

Daniel, would you please post some performance data on your new machine when it's up and running. i.e stockfish NPS and Lc0 speeds on the 2070 super. I'm sure everyone here would like to see how both the CPU and GPU perform!

And if you need any help/info to complete the build let us know.

Best regards and thanks in advance,

Zenmastur

I am working on on the cpu (GPU will arrive this week ). I have everything plugged in where it needs to be but having some issues
with getting it to post. The motherboard doesn't beep, it also doesn't show bios or anything on the monitor.
But the on-board cpu fans and rgb fans do turn on, i see led lights turned on M.2 ssds and hard disk seem to spin as well.
See picture:

https://ibb.co/NT6q9Yw

I tried to trouble shoot by taking out the RAMs and it still doesn't beep..don't know what the issue is.
I will dissassemble and get the motherboard out of the case and try again. Hopefully everything works out, but I am loving the experience anyway!

Daniel

[MikeB]

I am going to try and build the pc myself -- never built one before but watching lots of youtube videos has given me confidence. Fingers crossed I don't toast one of the components since i seem to be highly charged.

The 3900x was out of stock yesterday but managed to buy one today on newegg. Based on pc part picker i need to spend atleast 1500$ before tax if I pair it with an RTX 2070 super. I am going for a cheap X570 motherboard but maybe i should go for a solid X470 without PCIe 4.0 since i probably will not have any use for the extra SSD speed. 16GB 3200 ram.

Daniel

Daniel, would you please post some performance data on your new machine when it's up and running. i.e stockfish NPS and Lc0 speeds on the 2070 super. I'm sure everyone here would like to see how both the CPU and GPU perform!

And if you need any help/info to complete the build let us know.

Best regards and thanks in advance,

Zenmastur

I am working on on the cpu (GPU will arrive this week ). I have everything plugged in where it needs to be but having some issues
with getting it to post. The motherboard doesn't beep, it also doesn't show bios or anything on the monitor.
But the on-board cpu fans and rgb fans do turn on, i see led lights turned on M.2 ssds and hard disk seem to spin as well.
See picture:

https://ibb.co/NT6q9Yw

I tried to trouble shoot by taking out the RAMs and it still doesn't beep..don't know what the issue is.
I will dissassemble and get the motherboard out of the case and try again. Hopefully everything works out, but I am loving the experience anyway!

Daniel

Good luck! There is nothing more satisfying than building a high end computer from the parts list at a deep discount. Built three of them like that over ten year period from '96 to around '06 - but then the prices dropped so low for built computers , there was less incentive. It seems we're seeing the reemergence of high-end and high cost CPUS and GPUs, where the DIY'er is back in business. I'm looking to build my next computer.

[Zenmastur]

I am going to try and build the pc myself -- never built one before but watching lots of youtube videos has given me confidence. Fingers crossed I don't toast one of the components since i seem to be highly charged.

The 3900x was out of stock yesterday but managed to buy one today on newegg. Based on pc part picker i need to spend atleast 1500$ before tax if I pair it with an RTX 2070 super. I am going for a cheap X570 motherboard but maybe i should go for a solid X470 without PCIe 4.0 since i probably will not have any use for the extra SSD speed. 16GB 3200 ram.

Daniel

Daniel, would you please post some performance data on your new machine when it's up and running. i.e stockfish NPS and Lc0 speeds on the 2070 super. I'm sure everyone here would like to see how both the CPU and GPU perform!

And if you need any help/info to complete the build let us know.

Best regards and thanks in advance,

Zenmastur

I am working on on the cpu (GPU will arrive this week ). I have everything plugged in where it needs to be but having some issues
with getting it to post. The motherboard doesn't beep, it also doesn't show bios or anything on the monitor.
But the on-board cpu fans and rgb fans do turn on, i see led lights turned on M.2 ssds and hard disk seem to spin as well.
See picture:

https://ibb.co/NT6q9Yw

I tried to trouble shoot by taking out the RAMs and it still doesn't beep..don't know what the issue is.
I will dissassemble and get the motherboard out of the case and try again. Hopefully everything works out, but I am loving the experience anyway!

Daniel

Hmmm....

The Ryzen 9 3900X doesn't have an integrated GPU on the CPU and I doubt that the motherboard does either. So I wouldn't expect to see much on the monitor until you install the graphics card. At least that would be my guess. I suggest you wait for the graphics card to arrive before trying to diagnose any problems. Other than that, it sounds like your making good progress!

Regards,

Zenmastur

[Zenmastur]

Well, you don't really disagree with the statement, either ("no sign so far").

I'd hope they'd get stronger in the endgame & middlegame before they get stronger in the opening.

Ok, I'll say it. I disagree! AND I hope NN engines get much stronger in the opening. In fact, I wouldn't mind it if they produced very large NN's that play nothing but the opening. My analysis is that AB engine if left to themselves play the opening mediocre at best. The primary reason for this is that the programmers have no clue and/or no motivation. So, any engines that play the opening better would be welcomed in my book!

You disagree about the future. Do you disagree about the past and present?

The NN engines are not currently playing the opening better than the humans.

Without evidence this seems like a very subjective statement. Have there been any matches between humans and top NN engines in which the humans won and which lasted long enough to determine that the opening phase was the decisive factor in the NN engine losing the match?

The problem for NN engines is that unless they play the endings better (than they do now), they may not be able to evaluate openings that depend on the resultant endings accurately. (If the openings depend on a lot of middlegame tactics, they won't be better than traditional engines either.)

Hmmm...

Then how did Lc0 win TCEC when playing against SF? Do you think it got lucky 100 games in a row?

Regards,

Zenmastur

[Daniel Shawul]

Well, you don't really disagree with the statement, either ("no sign so far").

I'd hope they'd get stronger in the endgame & middlegame before they get stronger in the opening.

Ok, I'll say it. I disagree! AND I hope NN engines get much stronger in the opening. In fact, I wouldn't mind it if they produced very large NN's that play nothing but the opening. My analysis is that AB engine if left to themselves play the opening mediocre at best. The primary reason for this is that the programmers have no clue and/or no motivation. So, any engines that play the opening better would be welcomed in my book!

You disagree about the future. Do you disagree about the past and present?

The NN engines are not currently playing the opening better than the humans.

Without evidence this seems like a very subjective statement. Have there been any matches between humans and top NN engines in which the humans won and which lasted long enough to determine that the opening phase was the decisive factor in the NN engine losing the match?

The problem for NN engines is that unless they play the endings better (than they do now), they may not be able to evaluate openings that depend on the resultant endings accurately. (If the openings depend on a lot of middlegame tactics, they won't be better than traditional engines either.)

Hmmm...

Then how did Lc0 win TCEC when playing against SF? Do you think it got lucky 100 games in a row?

Regards,

Zenmastur

Thanks! I missed that part about the need for the graphics card.

Also I confused the need for speakers for beeping sounds. I thought were regular multimedia speakers but they are just

some cheap motherboard speakers which mine don't have. Well everything may turn out fine afterall once i get my gpu card.

Daniel

[Gregory Owett]

Hi Everyone,
I am in the case of Daniel, I want to build a machine in a box Cooler Master HAF 932 advanced existing because the amd FX 8150 processor, that I had, is KO.

On a MSI X470 Gaming Pro, I want to put an AMD Rysen 9 3090X, and an MSI GeForce RTX 2060 Ventus OC graphics card.
As RAM: Corsair Vengeance RGB DDR4 2 x 8 GB 3466 MHz CASE 16. With a cooler Corsair Hydro Series - H100i Pro RGB.
All this, for about 1,500 euros.

What do you think of this configuration? Can it work properly?
Thanks for some advice!

[Hai]

It's better to buy DDR4 32 or 64 GB RAM.

[Zenmastur]

Hi Everyone,
I am in the case of Daniel, I want to build a machine in a box Cooler Master HAF 932 advanced existing because the amd FX 8150 processor, that I had, is KO.

On a MSI X470 Gaming Pro, I want to put an AMD Rysen 9 3090X, and an MSI GeForce RTX 2060 Ventus OC graphics card.
As RAM: Corsair Vengeance RGB DDR4 2 x 8 GB 3466 MHz CASE 16. With a cooler Corsair Hydro Series - H100i Pro RGB.
All this, for about 1,500 euros.

What do you think of this configuration? Can it work properly?
Thanks for some advice!

The X470 Gaming pro is OK, BUT it doesn't have Bios flashback capability so you should have your vendor flash the bios with one that is compatible with the Ryzen 3000 series of chips before they ship it to you. It would suck if you got it and it wouldn't boot your CPU due to an older bios being installed.

The ram you picked is a NON-standard speed. While it should work fine, generally non-standard speed ram is more expensive than more standard speeds like DDR4 3200 or 3600 and they will often have unusual or slower timings. So, you should double check the prices of both DDR4 3200 and 3600 ram sticks and compare their primary timings before purchasing these sticks. I found ones similar (not sure they are the exact same SKU) to yours for both $189.99 and $321.30 on Newegg both with 16-18-18-36 timings. That's a very wide price spread and both seem overpriced. DDR4 3200 with CL 14-14-14-35 timings will be as fast or faster and may be cheaper!

The HAF 932 is a huge case! It's also an older design that's built like a tank! Not sure why you need such a huge case but I'm sure it will work and it's designed with water cooling in mind.

The Corsair Hydro Series H100i PRO RGB is just OK. It's nothing special (depending on what you're paying for it.) Personally I avoid water coolers unless I'm doing below ambient cooling and even then I don't care for them much. I personally would go for a Noctua NH-D15S. I believe this will fit in your case and it's cheaper. The difference in cooling MAY be noticeable but unimportant in the long run as very little performance is gained by overclocking the 3900X.

Which leaves just the power supply unaccounted for.

Having said that, I don't see anything wrong with the components you listed. I'm sure they'll work just fine.

Regards,

Zenmastur

[jp]

The NN engines are not currently playing the opening better than the humans.

Without evidence this seems like a very subjective statement. Have there been any matches between humans and top NN engines in which the humans won and which lasted long enough to determine that the opening phase was the decisive factor in the NN engine losing the match?

You sound focused on the results of games. We're not debating whether a human can beat an engine.
Opening theory is not created by one human. It's been the collective efforts of all humans and their machines.


I'm just waiting for an NN engine to play in its game a true good opening novelty that human GMs would then adopt. I don't think it has yet. I don't think NN engines have contributed to opening theory (yet) any more than traditional engines. People get excited, but just at the NN engine reproducing old human opening theory, not anything new.

But if someone can give examples where it has happened, of course I'd be very interested to see them.

Hmmm...

Then how did Lc0 win TCEC when playing against SF? Do you think it got lucky 100 games in a row?

Again, this has nothing to do with which engine is stronger than another engine. The endless Lc vs SF debate is a topic of other threads. (Briefly, it won't be settled because there will never be agreement about what is fair hardware and what are fair openings. When you watch TCEC, you see that Lc tends to win out of certain openings and SF out of certain other openings. Then the fans of one complain about the use of the opening that doesn't favor their preferred engine.)

We're talking about opening theory. Has Lc contributed to directly to opening theory, like humans do, i.e. by playing the novelties in tournament or match games and getting other humans to adopt them?

I don't think so, unless I've missed something.

[Zenmastur]

You sound focused on the results of games. We're not debating whether a human can beat an engine.

I was just waiting for an NN engine to play in its game a true good opening novelty that human GMs would then adopt. I don't think it has yet. I don't think NN engines have contributed to opening theory (yet) any more than traditional engines.

Engines play much stronger chess than humans so why does it matter if humans fail to adopt engine novelties. I think it's completely irrelevant. When I play ICCF games I don't look at GM games to help me with opening theory. I used to, but found so many errors that I started ignoring human played games. When I use any games as references (which isn't often) they are high level ICCF games and even then I double check every move before I consider following a line of play because many of these have errors in them.

Hmmm...

Then how did Lc0 win TCEC when playing against SF? Do you think it got lucky 100 games in a row?

Again, this has nothing to do with which engine is stronger than another engine. The endless Lc vs SF debate is a topic of other threads. (Briefly, it won't be settled because there will never be agreement about what is fair hardware and what are fair openings.)

I think it has everything to do with who plays stronger chess and I don't care what hardware they use. I don't care if they use an Intel 4004 or a 100 Exaflop supercomputer with a 1,000,000,000 cores running 1Thz. That part of it is irrelevant if you ask me!

We're talking about opening theory. Has Lc contributed to directly to opening theory, like humans do, i.e. by playing the novelties in tournament or match games and getting other humans to adopt them?

Human opening theory is almost irrelevant to modern engine play even though I think engines suck at opening play as compared to their middle game play. AND human opening theory could be made completely irrelevant if learning books were widely used in engines.

I don't think so, unless I've missed something.

I don't know if you missed something or not. I just don't think human play is relevant. I don't care if GM's adopt engine opening novelties. Engines play much stronger than any humans do and I don't see any engines voluntarily adopting human novelties.

Regards,

Zenmastur