Winning after Qf6+!

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Spliffjiffer
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Re: Winning after Qf6+!

Post by Spliffjiffer » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:55 am

yes, sure i have some variations stored...to provide a clear.pgn though i would need some hours to collect the stuff...if u have a specific question though i should be able to help probably without much trouble id suppose but of course: certain is nothing ;-)...concerning the Bd2-line though (instead of Ng5?!) i just provided the exact same line one year ago (original thread) as Louis' SF.dev nowadays and i have no further insight there !
Wahrheiten sind Illusionen von denen wir aber vergessen haben dass sie welche sind.

jp
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Re: Winning after Qf6+!

Post by jp » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:29 am

So does this mean you are better than SF-dev? :wink:

Spliffjiffer
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Re: Winning after Qf6+!

Post by Spliffjiffer » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:46 am

:-)...no...if i remember well i analysed this Bd2 line with SF.dev from 1 year ago !...so nothing special ;-)...ok, i did some forward, backward and choose probably a "most-human" line from my pov but the first moves (if i remember well) are pretty much forced (with filled hash-tables SF gave quite significant worse evaluations for other moves than Qa5!? , after Bd2, so i gave Qa5 the shot and i think its pretty much forced after that but not sure anymore)...actually i did not spend much time into Bd2 (instead of Ng5) because at this time the the main discussion was about "is Ng5 really winning if i play this or that" and i had much trouble to come to a conclusion !..no, im not better than SF, im a bad player for sure but i know how to use (different) engines after many years of practice :-)
Wahrheiten sind Illusionen von denen wir aber vergessen haben dass sie welche sind.

jp
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Re: Winning after Qf6+!

Post by jp » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:15 am

Well, the human POV is interesting, because I believe all reasonable humans will think about Qf6+, but humans will also all want to follow up with Ng5. So when an engine gives Qf6+ and Ng5(?), it's not so great from a human POV.

zullil
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Re: Winning after Qf6+!

Post by zullil » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:30 am

Spliffjiffer wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:46 am
:-)...no...if i remember well i analysed this Bd2 line with SF.dev from 1 year ago !...so nothing special ;-)...ok, i did some forward, backward and choose probably a "most-human" line from my pov but the first moves (if i remember well) are pretty much forced (with filled hash-tables SF gave quite significant worse evaluations for other moves than Qa5!? , after Bd2, so i gave Qa5 the shot and i think its pretty much forced after that but not sure anymore)...actually i did not spend much time into Bd2 (instead of Ng5) because at this time the the main discussion was about "is Ng5 really winning if i play this or that" and i had much trouble to come to a conclusion !..no, im not better than SF, im a bad player for sure but i know how to use (different) engines after many years of practice :-)
Here it is: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54487&start=130#p772911

Jouni
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Re: Winning after Qf6+!

Post by Jouni » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:35 am

I confused this position with Arasan 132 with same kind of queen sacrifice :oops: :


Much easier, but not trivial!
Jouni

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Master Om
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Re: Winning after Qf6+!

Post by Master Om » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:53 pm

zullil wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:24 pm
Master Om wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:19 pm

Can u give the pgn of all the winning lines? I am not getting the results as discussed. hence I will be analyzing deeply now.
I don't have any pgn files. Others do.

From the original position, here is a PV that might to be winning. You could start with this and either refute or improve it!


info depth 69 seldepth 183 multipv 1 score cp 392 nodes 1310302373631 nps 37939606 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 34536530 pv f4f6 e7f6 g5f6 g7g8 e1d2 b6a5 d2h6 a5c3 b2c3 b3b2 h6f8 b8f8 d1b1 f8b8 f3g5 c2a3 h3h7 c6e8 h7g7 g8h8 b1b2 b8b2 g7h7 h8g8 e2g4 a3c2 g4e6 f7e6 h7g7 g8h8 g7a7 b2b8 g5e6 c2e1 h2h3 e1f3 h1g2 f3h4 g2f2 h8g8 e6g5 b8b2 f2g3 h4f5 g3f3 b2b1 f3f2 b1b2 f2e1 b2b1 e1d2 b1f1 h3h4 g8f8 g5e6 f8g8 a7a8 g8f7 e6g5 f7f8 f6f7 f5g7 f7e8q g7e8 a8a4 f1f2 d2e1 f2h2 a4a7 e8g7 g5h7 f8g8 h7f6 g8f8 f6d5 g7e6 d5f6 e6f4 e1d1 h2f2 d4d5 f4d3 a7a8 f8g7 f6g4 d3b2 d1c1 b2d3 c1b1 f2b2 b1a1 b2g2 d5d6 g2g1 a1a2 d3c1 a2b1 c1d3 b1c2 g1g2 c2d1 d3b2 d1e1 g2g1 e1d2 g1g2 d2e3 g2g4 d6d7 b2d1 e3d2
ya sure I will. But your pgn is not compatible to copy paste :(
Always Expect the Unexpected

zullil
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Re: Winning after Qf6+!

Post by zullil » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:15 pm

Master Om wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:53 pm
zullil wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:24 pm
Master Om wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:19 pm

Can u give the pgn of all the winning lines? I am not getting the results as discussed. hence I will be analyzing deeply now.
I don't have any pgn files. Others do.

From the original position, here is a PV that might to be winning. You could start with this and either refute or improve it!


info depth 69 seldepth 183 multipv 1 score cp 392 nodes 1310302373631 nps 37939606 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 34536530 pv f4f6 e7f6 g5f6 g7g8 e1d2 b6a5 d2h6 a5c3 b2c3 b3b2 h6f8 b8f8 d1b1 f8b8 f3g5 c2a3 h3h7 c6e8 h7g7 g8h8 b1b2 b8b2 g7h7 h8g8 e2g4 a3c2 g4e6 f7e6 h7g7 g8h8 g7a7 b2b8 g5e6 c2e1 h2h3 e1f3 h1g2 f3h4 g2f2 h8g8 e6g5 b8b2 f2g3 h4f5 g3f3 b2b1 f3f2 b1b2 f2e1 b2b1 e1d2 b1f1 h3h4 g8f8 g5e6 f8g8 a7a8 g8f7 e6g5 f7f8 f6f7 f5g7 f7e8q g7e8 a8a4 f1f2 d2e1 f2h2 a4a7 e8g7 g5h7 f8g8 h7f6 g8f8 f6d5 g7e6 d5f6 e6f4 e1d1 h2f2 d4d5 f4d3 a7a8 f8g7 f6g4 d3b2 d1c1 b2d3 c1b1 f2b2 b1a1 b2g2 d5d6 g2g1 a1a2 d3c1 a2b1 c1d3 b1c2 g1g2 c2d1 d3b2 d1e1 g2g1 e1d2 g1g2 d2e3 g2g4 d6d7 b2d1 e3d2
ya sure I will. But your pgn is not compatible to copy paste :(
Because it's not a pgn. It's raw output from Stockfish. :)

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Master Om
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Re: Winning after Qf6+!

Post by Master Om » Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:07 pm

zullil wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:15 pm
Master Om wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:53 pm
zullil wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:24 pm
Master Om wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:19 pm

Can u give the pgn of all the winning lines? I am not getting the results as discussed. hence I will be analyzing deeply now.
I don't have any pgn files. Others do.

From the original position, here is a PV that might to be winning. You could start with this and either refute or improve it!


info depth 69 seldepth 183 multipv 1 score cp 392 nodes 1310302373631 nps 37939606 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 34536530 pv f4f6 e7f6 g5f6 g7g8 e1d2 b6a5 d2h6 a5c3 b2c3 b3b2 h6f8 b8f8 d1b1 f8b8 f3g5 c2a3 h3h7 c6e8 h7g7 g8h8 b1b2 b8b2 g7h7 h8g8 e2g4 a3c2 g4e6 f7e6 h7g7 g8h8 g7a7 b2b8 g5e6 c2e1 h2h3 e1f3 h1g2 f3h4 g2f2 h8g8 e6g5 b8b2 f2g3 h4f5 g3f3 b2b1 f3f2 b1b2 f2e1 b2b1 e1d2 b1f1 h3h4 g8f8 g5e6 f8g8 a7a8 g8f7 e6g5 f7f8 f6f7 f5g7 f7e8q g7e8 a8a4 f1f2 d2e1 f2h2 a4a7 e8g7 g5h7 f8g8 h7f6 g8f8 f6d5 g7e6 d5f6 e6f4 e1d1 h2f2 d4d5 f4d3 a7a8 f8g7 f6g4 d3b2 d1c1 b2d3 c1b1 f2b2 b1a1 b2g2 d5d6 g2g1 a1a2 d3c1 a2b1 c1d3 b1c2 g1g2 c2d1 d3b2 d1e1 g2g1 e1d2 g1g2 d2e3 g2g4 d6d7 b2d1 e3d2
ya sure I will. But your pgn is not compatible to copy paste :(
Because it's not a pgn. It's raw output from Stockfish. :)
Depends on the GUI. IN chessbase and Aquarium output is not like that notation.
Always Expect the Unexpected

zullil
Posts: 5684
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:31 pm
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: Winning after Qf6+!

Post by zullil » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:51 pm

Master Om wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:07 pm
zullil wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:15 pm
Master Om wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:53 pm
zullil wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:24 pm
Master Om wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:19 pm

Can u give the pgn of all the winning lines? I am not getting the results as discussed. hence I will be analyzing deeply now.
I don't have any pgn files. Others do.

From the original position, here is a PV that might to be winning. You could start with this and either refute or improve it!


info depth 69 seldepth 183 multipv 1 score cp 392 nodes 1310302373631 nps 37939606 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 34536530 pv f4f6 e7f6 g5f6 g7g8 e1d2 b6a5 d2h6 a5c3 b2c3 b3b2 h6f8 b8f8 d1b1 f8b8 f3g5 c2a3 h3h7 c6e8 h7g7 g8h8 b1b2 b8b2 g7h7 h8g8 e2g4 a3c2 g4e6 f7e6 h7g7 g8h8 g7a7 b2b8 g5e6 c2e1 h2h3 e1f3 h1g2 f3h4 g2f2 h8g8 e6g5 b8b2 f2g3 h4f5 g3f3 b2b1 f3f2 b1b2 f2e1 b2b1 e1d2 b1f1 h3h4 g8f8 g5e6 f8g8 a7a8 g8f7 e6g5 f7f8 f6f7 f5g7 f7e8q g7e8 a8a4 f1f2 d2e1 f2h2 a4a7 e8g7 g5h7 f8g8 h7f6 g8f8 f6d5 g7e6 d5f6 e6f4 e1d1 h2f2 d4d5 f4d3 a7a8 f8g7 f6g4 d3b2 d1c1 b2d3 c1b1 f2b2 b1a1 b2g2 d5d6 g2g1 a1a2 d3c1 a2b1 c1d3 b1c2 g1g2 c2d1 d3b2 d1e1 g2g1 e1d2 g1g2 d2e3 g2g4 d6d7 b2d1 e3d2
ya sure I will. But your pgn is not compatible to copy paste :(
Because it's not a pgn. It's raw output from Stockfish. :)
Depends on the GUI. IN chessbase and Aquarium output is not like that notation.
It's raw output from Stockfish. No GUI.

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