Well, that escalated fast. Bye.Ozymandias wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:25 pmCurious reply from the guy who can't figure out the context for quotes on his text.chrisw wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:21 pmSurely you have come across the expression “a cipher for”? Rather than me long windedly explain it to you, you could endeavour to work it out from context.Ozymandias wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:28 amA cipher? Whatever do you mean?chrisw wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 amThe phrase “picture I made” does not contain sufficient information to be able to answer. And all I could have done was report known legal factors, but you could look those up yourself. Anyway, as it turns out, you weren’t interested in knowing about your picture, it was instead a cipher for trying to get a personal opinion, but I don’t have a personal opinion on its legal status, the status either is or isn’t, independent of anything I might think. Hope that’s enough for you now.
Fritz 17
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
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Re: Fritz 17
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Re: Fritz 17
Well, the picture was produced in a way fully mechanical, by Neural Networks, where no human creativity was involved (the only human factor of the picture was getting lots of garbage pictures and "curating" this one.)
The whole point of the exercise is that you can't tell the difference between this picture, and say, one that I imagined and spent time designing to look like what I imagined, full of human creativity and engagement, which could clearly be copyrighted.
This shows that you can't take a look at Fat Fritz's weights and figure the way in which they were constructed, claim they didn't have human creativity involved, and say that they're a bunch of numbers that can be freely distributed over the internet for free.
Piracy breaks down if it depends on trusting the author about the way they made their work, so it can't depend on how a work was produced (because, you just can't know.)
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Re: Fritz 17
What you describe is an inversion if the problem, and therefore not the problem.Ovyron wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:01 amWell, the picture was produced in a way fully mechanical, by Neural Networks, where no human creativity was involved (the only human factor of the picture was getting lots of garbage pictures and "curating" this one.)
The whole point of the exercise is that you can't tell the difference between this picture, and say, one that I imagined and spent time designing to look like what I imagined, full of human creativity and engagement, which could clearly be copyrighted.
This shows that you can't take a look at Fat Fritz's weights and figure the way in which they were constructed, claim they didn't have human creativity involved, and say that they're a bunch of numbers that can be freely distributed over the internet for free.
Piracy breaks down if it depends on trusting the author about the way they made their work, so it can't depend on how a work was produced (because, you just can't know.)
Copyright on a mechanically created set of weights would need to be actually asserted by registering the copyright at the appropriate legal office. They’re different to a book, which defaults to copyright author. Mechanical selection defaults to not copyrightable. It’s not therefore “our” problem. Weights would need to have attached a notice giving registration point and reference number. Then human can consult and make a decision about status.
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Re: Fritz 17
Why do we keep talking about copyright here?
Over 17 pages
That is the problem of Chessbase alone!
We buy FatFritz and everything else is not our problem.
It's that simple.
Over 17 pages
That is the problem of Chessbase alone!
We buy FatFritz and everything else is not our problem.
It's that simple.
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Re: Fritz 17
I don’t buy fritz. The software is not what I understand under a useful chess gui.
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....
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Re: Fritz 17
Fully agree. Private Enterprise should be rewarded, not criticized.
If someone wants to make some money out of computer chess, what's the harm ?
I'm sure even if some ideas were some borrowed from lc0, the Fat Fritz Authors put in a lot of effort and time of their own.
No harm if they want to get paid for it.
In any case, they are not forcing anyone to buy their Products.
The people over at lczero.org are just doing it as a Hobby and for love of the Game of Chess, which is fine, but I'm sure they have other sources of Income in the Real World.
Sometimes, Money is a good Motivator, and if the Result is better Chess Engines, then Computer Chess gains as a whole.
So, live and let live !
i7 5960X @ 4.1 Ghz, 64 GB G.Skill RipJaws RAM, Twin Asus ROG Strix OC 11 GB Geforce 2080 Tis
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Re: Fritz 17
Let's Check database has now support for 7-piece syzygy support. It list won endgames (from white perspective) as "1" and win for black as "-1"
Nalimov is still there if 6 pieces remain on the board.
Yeah i'm going to buy Fritz 17.
Nalimov is still there if 6 pieces remain on the board.
Yeah i'm going to buy Fritz 17.
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Re: Fritz 17
Is there a download (for full DVD, databases, opening books, engines of course, etc) option available from Chessbase or only DVD one?Nordlandia wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:19 pm Let's Check database has now support for 7-piece syzygy support. It list won endgames (from white perspective) as "1" and win for black as "-1"
Nalimov is still there if 6 pieces remain on the board.
Yeah i'm going to buy Fritz 17.
I can't wait so long
After his son's birth they've asked him:
"Is it a boy or girl?"
YES! He replied.....
"Is it a boy or girl?"
YES! He replied.....
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Re: Fritz 17
Everything available as download. Have you been to their online shop and looked?
Just choose 'Download' instead of 'Post'.
Just choose 'Download' instead of 'Post'.