Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

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Ovyron
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Re: Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

Post by Ovyron » Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:33 pm

Raphexon wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:46 am
I obviously can't formally prove the game theoretic value.
But regardless I am 99.8% sure it's a loss.
That's basically what people were saying about 1.g4, and the reason this game is taking place.

Uri Blass
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Re: Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

Post by Uri Blass » Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:25 pm

Ovyron wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:23 pm
zullil wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:15 pm
According to Stockfish-dev, this game is over. Evaluation is -3.21 for 31. Bf4 (and Stockfish thinks that's the better of the two options you just had).
But this isn't new info, this was posted 4 days before the game started:
Zenmastur wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:51 am
With proper hardware (proper meaning very powerful) and sufficient time I believe it's possible to “prove beyond a reasonable doubt” that moves like 1.g4 are in fact losses. I'm not saying they can be calculated all the way to mate, but that they can be calculated to +7/-7 or better/worse. I tried this with 1.g4 right after I started playing CC and couldn't quite get there. IIRC the best I could get after about a week of analysis was -3.xx or so. This was on 5M-6M nps machine with 16 GB of TT and 6-man EGTBes. I plan on trying this again when I build my new system and, before I increase my ICCF game load significantly. I think this is just a matter of how powerful a machine you use. If I had a dual EPYC 7742 machine with 2 or more TB or RAM, 7-man EGTBs and a week of spare time (2 at the most) I think 1.g4 would be history!
(emphasis mine)

According to this, no matter what white played, it can't stop some -3.xx eval. So you can't say the game was over before it started, unless you claim you couldn't defend 1.g4 yourself.

I did not see a proof that 1.g4 is -3.xx
It may be interesting if somebody post a tree together with analysis that prove it meaning something like

1)stockfish's analysis shows -3.xx against white or worse at all leaves of the tree.
2)If white choose something that is not in the moves of the tree then stockfish's analysis show at least 3.xx for black.

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Harvey Williamson
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Re: Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

Post by Harvey Williamson » Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:34 pm


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Ovyron
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Re: Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

Post by Ovyron » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:33 pm

1. g4 d5 2. g5 e5 3. d4 exd4 4. Nf3 c5 5. Bg2 Ne7 6. c3 dxc3 7. Nxc3 Nbc6 8. O-O d4 9. Ne4 Ng6 10. a3 Bg4 11. Bd2 Bd6 12. Rc1 O-O 13. Nxc5 Bxc5 14. Rxc5 Qd7 15. Qb3 Rad8 16. Re1 Be6 17. Qd3 Rfe8 18. e4 b6 19. Rcc1 Bg4 20. Rxc6 Qxc6 21. Nxd4 Qc5 22. Be3 Ne5 23. Qc3 Qxc3 24. bxc3 Rc8 25. f3 Be6 26. Nb5 Red8 27. Bd4 Nc6 28. Be3 a6 29. Nd4 Ne5 30. Rc1 Nc4 31. Bf4 Nxa3 32. Bf1 a5 33. Ba6


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Harvey Williamson
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Re: Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

Post by Harvey Williamson » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:27 pm


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Ovyron
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Re: Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

Post by Ovyron » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:49 pm

1. g4 d5 2. g5 e5 3. d4 exd4 4. Nf3 c5 5. Bg2 Ne7 6. c3 dxc3 7. Nxc3 Nbc6 8. O-O d4 9. Ne4 Ng6 10. a3 Bg4 11. Bd2 Bd6 12. Rc1 O-O 13. Nxc5 Bxc5 14. Rxc5 Qd7 15. Qb3 Rad8 16. Re1 Be6 17. Qd3 Rfe8 18. e4 b6 19. Rcc1 Bg4 20. Rxc6 Qxc6 21. Nxd4 Qc5 22. Be3 Ne5 23. Qc3 Qxc3 24. bxc3 Rc8 25. f3 Be6 26. Nb5 Red8 27. Bd4 Nc6 28. Be3 a6 29. Nd4 Ne5 30. Rc1 Nc4 31. Bf4 Nxa3 32. Bf1 a5 33. Ba6 Rc5 34. Be3


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Re: Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

Post by zullil » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:39 pm

Ovyron wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:49 pm
1. g4 d5 2. g5 e5 3. d4 exd4 4. Nf3 c5 5. Bg2 Ne7 6. c3 dxc3 7. Nxc3 Nbc6 8. O-O d4 9. Ne4 Ng6 10. a3 Bg4 11. Bd2 Bd6 12. Rc1 O-O 13. Nxc5 Bxc5 14. Rxc5 Qd7 15. Qb3 Rad8 16. Re1 Be6 17. Qd3 Rfe8 18. e4 b6 19. Rcc1 Bg4 20. Rxc6 Qxc6 21. Nxd4 Qc5 22. Be3 Ne5 23. Qc3 Qxc3 24. bxc3 Rc8 25. f3 Be6 26. Nb5 Red8 27. Bd4 Nc6 28. Be3 a6 29. Nd4 Ne5 30. Rc1 Nc4 31. Bf4 Nxa3 32. Bf1 a5 33. Ba6 Rc5 34. Be3

Ovyron wrote: A thing Harvey and me have in common is our dislike for people that drag lost games on and on and on ...]
According to Stockfish-dev, both players have recently been playing best moves. But the eval is now -4.12, and is slowly falling with each move.

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Ovyron
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Re: Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

Post by Ovyron » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:51 pm

I hope you're saving those PVs or this game is going back to private :P

jp
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Re: Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

Post by jp » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:22 pm

zullil wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:39 pm
According to Stockfish-dev ... the eval is now -4.12, and is slowly falling with each move.
"Falling" I assume means from White's perspective it's going left on the real line.

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Re: Dylan Sharp Vs. Harvey Williamson (G4)

Post by zullil » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:43 pm

Ovyron wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:51 pm
I hope you're saving those PVs or this game is going back to private :P
I did save the most recent PV. But, in any case, resignation is best done in public. :P

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