Is all hope gone for white here ?
[d]r4rk1/pp6/1bn1R2p/6pb/5p2/1NP2N1P/PP3PPB/3R2K1 b - - 0 6
[pgn][Event "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Site "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Date "2020.06.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "stockfish_20062822_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "lc0"]
[Result "0-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r4rk1/pp6/1bn1R2p/6pb/5p2/1NP2N1P/PP3PPB/3R2K1 b - - 0 6"]
[PlyCount "68"]
[EventDate "2020.??.??"]
[TimeControl "450+7"]
6... Rad8 {0.52/15 7.8s} 7. Rd2 {0.00/40 37} Bxf3 {0.92/13 12} 8. gxf3 {
0.00/41 5.6s} Kg7 {0.97/12 8.9s} 9. Kf1 {0.00/38 9.1s} Rfe8 {1.20/12 20} 10.
Rxd8 {0.00/40 8.7s} Rxe6 {1.28/14 18} 11. Rd5 {-0.16/41 30} Re5 {1.29/14 11}
12. Rd7+ {-0.33/40 25} Re7 {1.50/14 17} 13. Rxe7+ {-0.13/40 18} Nxe7 {1.46/16
13} 14. h4 {-0.18/40 7.4s} Ng6 {1.45/15 12} 15. hxg5 {-0.48/37 15} hxg5 {
1.43/15 9.6s} 16. Ke2 {-0.49/44 49} Ne5 {1.88/11 26} 17. Nd2 {-0.79/44 8.9s}
Bc5 {1.94/11 13} 18. Nb3 {-1.31/45 59} Bd6 {2.04/12 21} 19. Nd4 {-0.95/40 8.7s}
Kf6 {2.09/11 29} 20. Nc2 {-1.32/46 38} Ke6 {2.11/11 11} 21. b3 {-1.41/48 16}
Bc7 {2.78/10 21} 22. Nd4+ {-1.50/47 20} Kd7 {3.08/11 23} 23. b4 {-1.59/215 16}
Bd8 {4.71/9 26} 24. Nb3 {-1.61/48 9.0s} Kc6 {5.19/9 17} 25. Nc5 {-1.61/50 26}
Be7 {6.27/10 12} 26. Ne4 {-2.22/48 23} Kb5 {7.77/9 16} 27. Nd2 {-4.97/43 137s}
Ka4 {7.18/10 14} 28. Nb1 {-5.31/34 6.8s} Bd6 {6.92/10 35} 29. Nd2 {-5.80/37 26}
Ka3 {13.19/8 8.5s} 30. Kd1 {-5.98/31 10} Kxa2 {13.88/8 21} 31. Kc1 {-4.16/31 1.
4s} Be7 {14.97/8 21} 32. Kc2 {-6.87/34 21} Ka3 {15.68/8 17} 33. Kb1 {-4.55/29
2.0s} Ka4 {17.05/7 17} 34. Kb2 {-6.16/36 15} b6 {17.62/7 15} 35. Ka2 {-7.05/27
4.1s} a5 {16.84/7 17} 36. bxa5 {-6.11/33 1.2s} bxa5 {16.89/8 8.3s} 37. Ka1 {
-8.80/33 15} Kb5 {20.16/7 21} 38. Ka2 {-9.18/32 2.6s} a4 {19.80/7 20} 39. Kb1 {
-10.46/29 5.3s} Nc4 {18.31/7 17} 40. Ne4 {adjudication -8.72/29 5.7s, Black
wins by adjudication} 0-1[/pgn]
Leela crushes any resistance in this position
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
-
- Posts: 2821
- Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:38 pm
- Location: Sortland, Norway
-
- Posts: 2821
- Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:38 pm
- Location: Sortland, Norway
Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
Game duration 3.5 hours. SF contempt -24
[pgn][Event "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Site "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Date "2020.06.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "stockfish_20062822_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "lc0"]
[Result "0-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r4rk1/pp6/1bn1R2p/6pb/5p2/1NP2N1P/PP3PPB/3R2K1 b - - 0 6"]
[PlyCount "44"]
[EventDate "2020.??.??"]
[TimeControl "9000+30"]
6... Rad8 {0.49/22 99s} 7. Rd2 {-0.67/47 500s} Bxf3 {1.09/17 152s} 8. gxf3 {
-0.31/46 200s} Kg7 {1.13/17 116s} 9. Rde2 {-0.51/50 209s} Rf6 {1.19/18 178s}
10. R6e4 {-1.06/51 815s} Rf5 {1.20/18 143s} 11. h4 {-0.60/50 227s} Rd7 {
1.25/17 179s} 12. Kg2 {-0.83/45 427s} Bd8 {1.29/18 212s} 13. Rc2 {-1.12/45 398s
} Kf7 {1.72/20 405s} 14. Rce2 {-1.13/47 376s} Bf6 {1.93/15 282s} 15. Rd2 {
-1.49/58 142s} Rfd5 {2.34/16 210s} 16. Rxd5 {-1.49/49 294s} Rxd5 {2.40/16 120s}
17. Kf1 {-1.59/49 270s} Rd1+ {3.22/21 256s} 18. Kg2 {-2.85/50 878s} Rb1 {
3.98/17 209s} 19. Re2 {-2.52/46 119s} Ne5 {4.72/16 209s} 20. Rd2 {-2.38/43 60s}
b6 {4.94/16 185s} 21. a4 {-3.73/46 266s} a5 {5.11/17 197s} 22. Rd5 {-5.68/43
1017s} Rxb2 {7.62/13 291s} 23. Nd4 {-5.68/41 108s} Ke7 {8.03/12 201s} 24. Kf1 {
-5.86/39 387s} Ng6 {10.86/11 438s} 25. hxg5 {-6.55/42 414s} hxg5 {10.70/11 96s}
26. Nc6+ {-7.26/42 427s} Ke6 {12.40/11 280s} 27. c4 {-7.24/41 151s} Nh4 {
12.09/11 177s} 28. Rd3 {adjudication -7.24/39 46s, Black wins by adjudication}
0-1[/pgn]
[pgn][Event "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Site "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Date "2020.06.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "stockfish_20062822_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "lc0"]
[Result "0-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r4rk1/pp6/1bn1R2p/6pb/5p2/1NP2N1P/PP3PPB/3R2K1 b - - 0 6"]
[PlyCount "44"]
[EventDate "2020.??.??"]
[TimeControl "9000+30"]
6... Rad8 {0.49/22 99s} 7. Rd2 {-0.67/47 500s} Bxf3 {1.09/17 152s} 8. gxf3 {
-0.31/46 200s} Kg7 {1.13/17 116s} 9. Rde2 {-0.51/50 209s} Rf6 {1.19/18 178s}
10. R6e4 {-1.06/51 815s} Rf5 {1.20/18 143s} 11. h4 {-0.60/50 227s} Rd7 {
1.25/17 179s} 12. Kg2 {-0.83/45 427s} Bd8 {1.29/18 212s} 13. Rc2 {-1.12/45 398s
} Kf7 {1.72/20 405s} 14. Rce2 {-1.13/47 376s} Bf6 {1.93/15 282s} 15. Rd2 {
-1.49/58 142s} Rfd5 {2.34/16 210s} 16. Rxd5 {-1.49/49 294s} Rxd5 {2.40/16 120s}
17. Kf1 {-1.59/49 270s} Rd1+ {3.22/21 256s} 18. Kg2 {-2.85/50 878s} Rb1 {
3.98/17 209s} 19. Re2 {-2.52/46 119s} Ne5 {4.72/16 209s} 20. Rd2 {-2.38/43 60s}
b6 {4.94/16 185s} 21. a4 {-3.73/46 266s} a5 {5.11/17 197s} 22. Rd5 {-5.68/43
1017s} Rxb2 {7.62/13 291s} 23. Nd4 {-5.68/41 108s} Ke7 {8.03/12 201s} 24. Kf1 {
-5.86/39 387s} Ng6 {10.86/11 438s} 25. hxg5 {-6.55/42 414s} hxg5 {10.70/11 96s}
26. Nc6+ {-7.26/42 427s} Ke6 {12.40/11 280s} 27. c4 {-7.24/41 151s} Nh4 {
12.09/11 177s} 28. Rd3 {adjudication -7.24/39 46s, Black wins by adjudication}
0-1[/pgn]
-
- Posts: 6442
- Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:31 am
- Location: PA USA
- Full name: Louis Zulli
Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
Well, White's bishop seems rather useless.
Doesn't move in either of your playouts.
-
- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:54 am
Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
Umm... you've posted this position before, right?Nordlandia wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:23 am Is all hope gone for white here ?
r4rk1/pp6/1bn1R2p/6pb/5p2/1NP2N1P/PP3PPB/3R2K1 b - - 0 6
It looks very much like a draw. (i.e. the analysis from last time, not the first impression.) Sure, White has to grovel but he gets the draw with accurate play. I don't think short TC games help much. With little time, White will go astray.
-
- Posts: 9773
- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:44 pm
- Location: Amman,Jordan
Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
White is practically one piece down ....Nordlandia wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:23 am Is all hope gone for white here ?
[d]r4rk1/pp6/1bn1R2p/6pb/5p2/1NP2N1P/PP3PPB/3R2K1 b - - 0 6
[pgn][Event "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Site "i7-5960X 4.5GHz / 2x 2080 Supe"]
[Date "2020.06.29"]
[Round "?"]
[White "stockfish_20062822_x64_bmi2"]
[Black "lc0"]
[Result "0-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r4rk1/pp6/1bn1R2p/6pb/5p2/1NP2N1P/PP3PPB/3R2K1 b - - 0 6"]
[PlyCount "68"]
[EventDate "2020.??.??"]
[TimeControl "450+7"]
6... Rad8 {0.52/15 7.8s} 7. Rd2 {0.00/40 37} Bxf3 {0.92/13 12} 8. gxf3 {
0.00/41 5.6s} Kg7 {0.97/12 8.9s} 9. Kf1 {0.00/38 9.1s} Rfe8 {1.20/12 20} 10.
Rxd8 {0.00/40 8.7s} Rxe6 {1.28/14 18} 11. Rd5 {-0.16/41 30} Re5 {1.29/14 11}
12. Rd7+ {-0.33/40 25} Re7 {1.50/14 17} 13. Rxe7+ {-0.13/40 18} Nxe7 {1.46/16
13} 14. h4 {-0.18/40 7.4s} Ng6 {1.45/15 12} 15. hxg5 {-0.48/37 15} hxg5 {
1.43/15 9.6s} 16. Ke2 {-0.49/44 49} Ne5 {1.88/11 26} 17. Nd2 {-0.79/44 8.9s}
Bc5 {1.94/11 13} 18. Nb3 {-1.31/45 59} Bd6 {2.04/12 21} 19. Nd4 {-0.95/40 8.7s}
Kf6 {2.09/11 29} 20. Nc2 {-1.32/46 38} Ke6 {2.11/11 11} 21. b3 {-1.41/48 16}
Bc7 {2.78/10 21} 22. Nd4+ {-1.50/47 20} Kd7 {3.08/11 23} 23. b4 {-1.59/215 16}
Bd8 {4.71/9 26} 24. Nb3 {-1.61/48 9.0s} Kc6 {5.19/9 17} 25. Nc5 {-1.61/50 26}
Be7 {6.27/10 12} 26. Ne4 {-2.22/48 23} Kb5 {7.77/9 16} 27. Nd2 {-4.97/43 137s}
Ka4 {7.18/10 14} 28. Nb1 {-5.31/34 6.8s} Bd6 {6.92/10 35} 29. Nd2 {-5.80/37 26}
Ka3 {13.19/8 8.5s} 30. Kd1 {-5.98/31 10} Kxa2 {13.88/8 21} 31. Kc1 {-4.16/31 1.
4s} Be7 {14.97/8 21} 32. Kc2 {-6.87/34 21} Ka3 {15.68/8 17} 33. Kb1 {-4.55/29
2.0s} Ka4 {17.05/7 17} 34. Kb2 {-6.16/36 15} b6 {17.62/7 15} 35. Ka2 {-7.05/27
4.1s} a5 {16.84/7 17} 36. bxa5 {-6.11/33 1.2s} bxa5 {16.89/8 8.3s} 37. Ka1 {
-8.80/33 15} Kb5 {20.16/7 21} 38. Ka2 {-9.18/32 2.6s} a4 {19.80/7 20} 39. Kb1 {
-10.46/29 5.3s} Nc4 {18.31/7 17} 40. Ne4 {adjudication -8.72/29 5.7s, Black
wins by adjudication} 0-1[/pgn]
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
-
- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:54 am
Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
... but it's not enough for Black to win against best play (it seems).
-
- Posts: 9773
- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:44 pm
- Location: Amman,Jordan
Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
Definitely,Black has to play accurate moves to get to the finish line ....
Cheers
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
-
- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:54 am
Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
I don't think it's enough for Black to play accurately. White has also to play inaccurately for Black to win.Dr.Wael Deeb wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:34 am Definitely,Black has to play accurate moves to get to the finish line ....
-
- Posts: 2821
- Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:38 pm
- Location: Sortland, Norway
Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
Then we can ask how can white address the problem bishop on h2 without compromising the stability of the position. In order for white to being able to hold, it has to be addressed. Otherwise all indications suggest white will remain a piece down practially speaking.jp wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:59 amI don't think it's enough for Black to play accurately. White has also to play inaccurately for Black to win.Dr.Wael Deeb wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:34 am Definitely,Black has to play accurate moves to get to the finish line ....
-
- Posts: 4556
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:30 am
Re: Leela crushes any resistance in this position
This is the easiest thing to do. Change the white bishop on h2 for a pawn, creating an alternative position were black is winning. Compare the best lines from the real and this new position ignoring those where white advances this pawn. There will be a point at which white can save itself because it can move the bishop, while on the new position the pawn can't save white because it's a pawn.Nordlandia wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:06 pm Then we can ask how can white address the problem bishop on h2 without compromising the stability of the position. In order for white to being able to hold, it has to be addressed. Otherwise all indications suggest white will remain a piece down practially speaking.
Too bad nothing is at stake because no actual game is being played, so the truth will never be known.