Et Mortuus Est Rex

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

It's always interesting to see what the engine will come up with on its own, but positionally-deficient 2400-level programs usually tend to play crummy, exploitable openings on their own. Even stronger A-B engines will struggle in that phase. Dr Deeb's job probably won't get any harder that way.

An excellent point and fully agreed ....

It will make my life much easier people

Cheers,
Dr.D

[carldaman]

Dr. Deeb, if you're ever lacking for a real challenge, you're welcome to take on Nezh, the ultimate attacking anti-human (and anti-computer!) genius -- just click on the link in my sig below.

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Dr. Deeb, if you're ever lacking for a real challenge, you're welcome to take on Nezh, the ultimate attacking anti-human (and anti-computer!) genius -- just click on the link in my sig below.

Thanks,I'll give a run ....

Right now I am clashing with Tigran 2.4n leading the black army

Cheers

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Hi

Unfortunately I didn't manage to hold Tigran 2.4n x64 with the black pieces playing a variation of the Old Indian defense ....

Tigran is extremely territorial and quite aggressive which resulted is a series of minor blunders from my side accumulating to distorted position for black and losing the game ....

30... Bxf6 was a critical weak move that if played 30...gxf6 whould have saved the game,maybe

BTW,I listened to Larry and doubled the time control for the chess engines from 40 minutes + 20 seconds increment to 80 Minutes and kept the same increment ....

I will try to punish Tigran with the white pieces but no promises from my side ....

Enjoy

[pgn][Event "Et Mortuus Est Rex"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2020.07.05"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Tigran 2.4n x64 q"]
[Black "Dr.Deeb"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A54"]
[WhiteElo "2402"]
[BlackElo "2032"]
[Annotator "Stockfish NNUE run (halfkp-256x2-32-32) 30062"]
[PlyCount "83"]
[EventDate "2020.??.??"]

{A54: Old Indian Defence with Nf3, but without e4} 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 d6 3. c4
Nbd7 4. Nc3 e5 5. Bg5 Be7 6. e3 O-O 7. Be2 c6 8. O-O Re8 9. Qc2 Qc7 10. Rfd1 a6
11. Rac1 b6 {last book move} 12. b4 Bb7 13. Bh4 exd4 14. Nxd4 c5 15. bxc5 bxc5
16. Nf5 Bf8 17. Rb1 Rab8 18. Bg5 (18. Qd2 Re6 19. Qc2 Ree8 $16) 18... h6 {
Black threatens to win material: h6xg5} 19. Bf4 {The pressure on the backward
pawn d6 grows} Ne5 20. a4 Bc8 21. Rxb8 Qxb8 22. e4 (22. Bf1 Qb6 $14) 22... Qc7
23. Nd5 Nxd5 (23... Qd8 24. Nde3 $14) 24. cxd5 $14 Bxf5 (24... Bd7 25. Ne3 (25.
Bxa6 $143 Qa5 26. Bb5 Bxb5 27. axb5 Qxb5 $14) 25... Qa5 26. Ra1 $16) 25. exf5
$16 c4 26. Bxe5 Rxe5 27. Qxc4 Qxc4 28. Bxc4 Re4 (28... a5 $5 $14) 29. Rc1 $16
Be7 30. f6 (30. g3 $5 $16) 30... Bxf6 (30... gxf6 $5 31. Bxa6 Rxa4 $11) 31. Bd3
$14 {White threatens to win material: Bd3xe4} Re8 32. Bxa6 Re5 {Black
threatens to win material: Re5xd5} 33. Bc4 Re7 $2 (33... Bd8 $142 $5 $14 {
and Black has air to breath}) 34. a5 $18 Bd4 35. a6 Ba7 $2 (35... Rc7 36. Kf1
$18) 36. Bd3 (36. Bb5 {makes it even easier for White} f5 $18) 36... Bc5 $2 (
36... g5 $142 $18) 37. Kf1 g6 (37... Kf8 38. Bb5 Ra7 $18) 38. Rxc5 $1 {it's
all over} dxc5 39. d6 (39. Bb5 $5 {seems even better} Ra7 40. d6 Ra8 $18) 39...
Rd7 40. Ke2 Kf8 41. Bb5 Ra7 42. Kd3 1-0[/pgn]

[carldaman]

Among the 2400 CCRL level engines, Romichess, Gaia, Gosu and Ares GB 1.1 are reputed to have more interesting styles, with some knowledge built-in. Perhaps, Tigran belongs in that group as well.

[lkaufman]

Hi

Unfortunately I didn't manage to hold Tigran 2.4n x64 with the black pieces playing a variation of the Old Indian defense ....

Tigran is extremely territorial and quite aggressive which resulted is a series of minor blunders from my side accumulating to distorted position for black and losing the game ....

30... Bxf6 was a critical weak move that if played 30...gxf6 whould have saved the game,maybe

BTW,I listened to Larry and doubled the time control for the chess engines from 40 minutes + 20 seconds increment to 80 Minutes and kept the same increment ....

I will try to punish Tigran with the white pieces but no promises from my side ....

Enjoy

[pgn][Event "Et Mortuus Est Rex"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2020.07.05"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Tigran 2.4n x64 q"]
[Black "Dr.Deeb"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A54"]
[WhiteElo "2402"]
[BlackElo "2032"]
[Annotator "Stockfish NNUE run (halfkp-256x2-32-32) 30062"]
[PlyCount "83"]
[EventDate "2020.??.??"]

{A54: Old Indian Defence with Nf3, but without e4} 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 d6 3. c4
Nbd7 4. Nc3 e5 5. Bg5 Be7 6. e3 O-O 7. Be2 c6 8. O-O Re8 9. Qc2 Qc7 10. Rfd1 a6
11. Rac1 b6 {last book move} 12. b4 Bb7 13. Bh4 exd4 14. Nxd4 c5 15. bxc5 bxc5
16. Nf5 Bf8 17. Rb1 Rab8 18. Bg5 (18. Qd2 Re6 19. Qc2 Ree8 $16) 18... h6 {
Black threatens to win material: h6xg5} 19. Bf4 {The pressure on the backward
pawn d6 grows} Ne5 20. a4 Bc8 21. Rxb8 Qxb8 22. e4 (22. Bf1 Qb6 $14) 22... Qc7
23. Nd5 Nxd5 (23... Qd8 24. Nde3 $14) 24. cxd5 $14 Bxf5 (24... Bd7 25. Ne3 (25.
Bxa6 $143 Qa5 26. Bb5 Bxb5 27. axb5 Qxb5 $14) 25... Qa5 26. Ra1 $16) 25. exf5
$16 c4 26. Bxe5 Rxe5 27. Qxc4 Qxc4 28. Bxc4 Re4 (28... a5 $5 $14) 29. Rc1 $16
Be7 30. f6 (30. g3 $5 $16) 30... Bxf6 (30... gxf6 $5 31. Bxa6 Rxa4 $11) 31. Bd3
$14 {White threatens to win material: Bd3xe4} Re8 32. Bxa6 Re5 {Black
threatens to win material: Re5xd5} 33. Bc4 Re7 $2 (33... Bd8 $142 $5 $14 {
and Black has air to breath}) 34. a5 $18 Bd4 35. a6 Ba7 $2 (35... Rc7 36. Kf1
$18) 36. Bd3 (36. Bb5 {makes it even easier for White} f5 $18) 36... Bc5 $2 (
36... g5 $142 $18) 37. Kf1 g6 (37... Kf8 38. Bb5 Ra7 $18) 38. Rxc5 $1 {it's
all over} dxc5 39. d6 (39. Bb5 $5 {seems even better} Ra7 40. d6 Ra8 $18) 39...
Rd7 40. Ke2 Kf8 41. Bb5 Ra7 42. Kd3 1-0[/pgn]

It is hard to believe that this engine could have almost the same rating as the Simplex engine you beat. This one plays like I would expect a 2400 rated engine to play, meaning that it doesn't make errors that are obvious to a human master without even having to think. It is my belief that in general the engines rated 2400 on the CCRL list, when running on a good computer like yours, should be evenly matched with humans well above 2400 FIDE, probably above 2500. If I'm right, it's no surprise that it would beat you, and Simplex must somehow be an aberration.

[Ovyron]

Among the 2400 CCRL level engines, Romichess, Gaia, Gosu and Ares GB 1.1 are reputed to have more interesting styles, with some knowledge built-in. Perhaps, Tigran belongs in that group as well.

I'm waiting for Dr.Wael Deeb Vs. Romichess. It could be the engine that stops the run cold, and not specially because of strength (or she'd be higher on the list), but style alone. If not, the game where he beats Romi would be amazing!

I hope it happens without book, but learning on, imagine if on future tries Romi plays Dr.Wael Deeb's moves against him

[carldaman]

Yes, Romi could then play the Old Indian, too!

[carldaman]

Hi

Unfortunately I didn't manage to hold Tigran 2.4n x64 with the black pieces playing a variation of the Old Indian defense ....

Tigran is extremely territorial and quite aggressive which resulted is a series of minor blunders from my side accumulating to distorted position for black and losing the game ....

30... Bxf6 was a critical weak move that if played 30...gxf6 whould have saved the game,maybe

BTW,I listened to Larry and doubled the time control for the chess engines from 40 minutes + 20 seconds increment to 80 Minutes and kept the same increment ....

I will try to punish Tigran with the white pieces but no promises from my side ....

Enjoy

[pgn][Event "Et Mortuus Est Rex"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2020.07.05"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Tigran 2.4n x64 q"]
[Black "Dr.Deeb"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A54"]
[WhiteElo "2402"]
[BlackElo "2032"]
[Annotator "Stockfish NNUE run (halfkp-256x2-32-32) 30062"]
[PlyCount "83"]
[EventDate "2020.??.??"]

{A54: Old Indian Defence with Nf3, but without e4} 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 d6 3. c4
Nbd7 4. Nc3 e5 5. Bg5 Be7 6. e3 O-O 7. Be2 c6 8. O-O Re8 9. Qc2 Qc7 10. Rfd1 a6
11. Rac1 b6 {last book move} 12. b4 Bb7 13. Bh4 exd4 14. Nxd4 c5 15. bxc5 bxc5
16. Nf5 Bf8 17. Rb1 Rab8 18. Bg5 (18. Qd2 Re6 19. Qc2 Ree8 $16) 18... h6 {
Black threatens to win material: h6xg5} 19. Bf4 {The pressure on the backward
pawn d6 grows} Ne5 20. a4 Bc8 21. Rxb8 Qxb8 22. e4 (22. Bf1 Qb6 $14) 22... Qc7
23. Nd5 Nxd5 (23... Qd8 24. Nde3 $14) 24. cxd5 $14 Bxf5 (24... Bd7 25. Ne3 (25.
Bxa6 $143 Qa5 26. Bb5 Bxb5 27. axb5 Qxb5 $14) 25... Qa5 26. Ra1 $16) 25. exf5
$16 c4 26. Bxe5 Rxe5 27. Qxc4 Qxc4 28. Bxc4 Re4 (28... a5 $5 $14) 29. Rc1 $16
Be7 30. f6 (30. g3 $5 $16) 30... Bxf6 (30... gxf6 $5 31. Bxa6 Rxa4 $11) 31. Bd3
$14 {White threatens to win material: Bd3xe4} Re8 32. Bxa6 Re5 {Black
threatens to win material: Re5xd5} 33. Bc4 Re7 $2 (33... Bd8 $142 $5 $14 {
and Black has air to breath}) 34. a5 $18 Bd4 35. a6 Ba7 $2 (35... Rc7 36. Kf1
$18) 36. Bd3 (36. Bb5 {makes it even easier for White} f5 $18) 36... Bc5 $2 (
36... g5 $142 $18) 37. Kf1 g6 (37... Kf8 38. Bb5 Ra7 $18) 38. Rxc5 $1 {it's
all over} dxc5 39. d6 (39. Bb5 $5 {seems even better} Ra7 40. d6 Ra8 $18) 39...
Rd7 40. Ke2 Kf8 41. Bb5 Ra7 42. Kd3 1-0[/pgn]

It is hard to believe that this engine could have almost the same rating as the Simplex engine you beat. This one plays like I would expect a 2400 rated engine to play, meaning that it doesn't make errors that are obvious to a human master without even having to think. It is my belief that in general the engines rated 2400 on the CCRL list, when running on a good computer like yours, should be evenly matched with humans well above 2400 FIDE, probably above 2500. If I'm right, it's no surprise that it would beat you, and Simplex must somehow be an aberration.

Again, I think the lower you go down the rating list, engines will have vastly different strengths and weaknesses and the earned Elo is just an average figure of those. Not all 2400-level engines are cut from the same cloth, we can be sure of that.

Just as there are human players who are good anti-computer specialists, and others who are not, but who may otherwise be of similar strength, we also have engines that are more susceptible to anti-computer strategies and others that are less so.

[Ovyron]

Yes, that could also explain the "Elo collapse" observed the more you go up the list. It's because engines didn't get better Elo because they played better chess, but because they got increasingly better at exploiting engine's mistakes (mainly, the mistakes of the old version of the same engine.)