Et Mortuus Est Rex

[BrendanJNorman]

Among the 2400 CCRL level engines, Romichess, Gaia, Gosu and Ares GB 1.1 are reputed to have more interesting styles, with some knowledge built-in. Perhaps, Tigran belongs in that group as well.

+1

Also there's...

-Gromit 2.0/2.13/2.20
- Phalanx XXII
- Trace
- WChess 1.06
- Queen 2.36
-Baron 1.6.1
- Rebel 6.0
- Comet A90
- Horizon 4.3/4.4
- LambChop 7.0
- Kiwi 0.6
- Terra 3.4

All of the above are 2300-2400ish and have beautiful playing styles for a reasonably strong human to train against.

In fact, I think to set up a beautiful Rosewood DGT board and play against these guys at LTC (simulating real tournament play)- combined with perhaps a nice glass of wine and some classical cello music - would indeed be one of life's pleasures.

[Ovyron]

- Rebel 6.0

I think some Benjamin 1.0 setting could outdo Rebel 6.0. The idea would be to use its Master.eng setting to create a personality that disregards material to make it sacrifice it to keep the position open and tactical and after this is achieved switch to ProDeo 2.2 at full strength to finish the human off, while keeping an average of 2400 elo (which would be achieved by just sacrificing more material).

Some Anti-Dr.Wael Deeb setting

[BrendanJNorman]

- Rebel 6.0

I think some Benjamin 1.0 setting could outdo Rebel 6.0. The idea would be to use its Master.eng setting to create a personality that disregards material to make it sacrifice it to keep the position open and tactical and after this is achieved switch to ProDeo 2.2 at full strength to finish the human off, while keeping an average of 2400 elo (which would be achieved by just sacrificing more material).

Some Anti-Dr.Wael Deeb setting

Actually, yes, it would be very easy to create a VERY aggressive Benjamin/ProDeo 2.2 personality which plays at 2400 level.

You shave off 300 Elo (engine Elo), but make it impossible for humans to survive.

In fact, I did this before in creating the Rodent II Henny personality years ago.

It was 2400ish but sometimes would cut the head off a 2800 like Frenzee 3.5.19 with sheer aggression and crazy sacrifices.

Talking about this stuff makes me want to make more time for this hobby....I really love it.

O well...in due time...in due time.

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Hi

Unfortunately I didn't manage to hold Tigran 2.4n x64 with the black pieces playing a variation of the Old Indian defense ....

Tigran is extremely territorial and quite aggressive which resulted is a series of minor blunders from my side accumulating to distorted position for black and losing the game ....

30... Bxf6 was a critical weak move that if played 30...gxf6 whould have saved the game,maybe

BTW,I listened to Larry and doubled the time control for the chess engines from 40 minutes + 20 seconds increment to 80 Minutes and kept the same increment ....

I will try to punish Tigran with the white pieces but no promises from my side ....

Enjoy

[pgn][Event "Et Mortuus Est Rex"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2020.07.05"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Tigran 2.4n x64 q"]
[Black "Dr.Deeb"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A54"]
[WhiteElo "2402"]
[BlackElo "2032"]
[Annotator "Stockfish NNUE run (halfkp-256x2-32-32) 30062"]
[PlyCount "83"]
[EventDate "2020.??.??"]

{A54: Old Indian Defence with Nf3, but without e4} 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 d6 3. c4
Nbd7 4. Nc3 e5 5. Bg5 Be7 6. e3 O-O 7. Be2 c6 8. O-O Re8 9. Qc2 Qc7 10. Rfd1 a6
11. Rac1 b6 {last book move} 12. b4 Bb7 13. Bh4 exd4 14. Nxd4 c5 15. bxc5 bxc5
16. Nf5 Bf8 17. Rb1 Rab8 18. Bg5 (18. Qd2 Re6 19. Qc2 Ree8 $16) 18... h6 {
Black threatens to win material: h6xg5} 19. Bf4 {The pressure on the backward
pawn d6 grows} Ne5 20. a4 Bc8 21. Rxb8 Qxb8 22. e4 (22. Bf1 Qb6 $14) 22... Qc7
23. Nd5 Nxd5 (23... Qd8 24. Nde3 $14) 24. cxd5 $14 Bxf5 (24... Bd7 25. Ne3 (25.
Bxa6 $143 Qa5 26. Bb5 Bxb5 27. axb5 Qxb5 $14) 25... Qa5 26. Ra1 $16) 25. exf5
$16 c4 26. Bxe5 Rxe5 27. Qxc4 Qxc4 28. Bxc4 Re4 (28... a5 $5 $14) 29. Rc1 $16
Be7 30. f6 (30. g3 $5 $16) 30... Bxf6 (30... gxf6 $5 31. Bxa6 Rxa4 $11) 31. Bd3
$14 {White threatens to win material: Bd3xe4} Re8 32. Bxa6 Re5 {Black
threatens to win material: Re5xd5} 33. Bc4 Re7 $2 (33... Bd8 $142 $5 $14 {
and Black has air to breath}) 34. a5 $18 Bd4 35. a6 Ba7 $2 (35... Rc7 36. Kf1
$18) 36. Bd3 (36. Bb5 {makes it even easier for White} f5 $18) 36... Bc5 $2 (
36... g5 $142 $18) 37. Kf1 g6 (37... Kf8 38. Bb5 Ra7 $18) 38. Rxc5 $1 {it's
all over} dxc5 39. d6 (39. Bb5 $5 {seems even better} Ra7 40. d6 Ra8 $18) 39...
Rd7 40. Ke2 Kf8 41. Bb5 Ra7 42. Kd3 1-0[/pgn]

It is hard to believe that this engine could have almost the same rating as the Simplex engine you beat. This one plays like I would expect a 2400 rated engine to play, meaning that it doesn't make errors that are obvious to a human master without even having to think. It is my belief that in general the engines rated 2400 on the CCRL list, when running on a good computer like yours, should be evenly matched with humans well above 2400 FIDE, probably above 2500. If I'm right, it's no surprise that it would beat you, and Simplex must somehow be an aberration.

Extremely well said ....

Tigran is a 2400 chess playing monster and maybe doubling the time control did it merit too ....

With white pieces I strongly hesitated to play 1. e4 or 1. b3 then I went for the Larsen attack and it produced an epic battle which will end with the defeat of Tigran

Just a several more moves to nail my victory in full glory ....

I will post the game later and beside the Stockfish NNUE I will high light some interesting moments of the game and why I played these moves in that particular position ....

Cheers,
Dr.D

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Among the 2400 CCRL level engines, Romichess, Gaia, Gosu and Ares GB 1.1 are reputed to have more interesting styles, with some knowledge built-in. Perhaps, Tigran belongs in that group as well.

I'm waiting for Dr.Wael Deeb Vs. Romichess. It could be the engine that stops the run cold, and not specially because of strength (or she'd be higher on the list), but style alone. If not, the game where he beats Romi would be amazing!

Tell Romichess to prepare itself against the Larsen attack with 1. b3


I hope it happens without book, but learning on, imagine if on future tries Romi plays Dr.Wael Deeb's moves against him

I always give the engine an opening book till the 12th move usually
and will let it leran switched on ....


BTW,with all due respect,who punches his two hands on the table and says that the different chess engines doesn't have a style is either too naive or he doesn't understand the game of chess in it's essence or both ....

Cheers
Dr.D

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Among the 2400 CCRL level engines, Romichess, Gaia, Gosu and Ares GB 1.1 are reputed to have more interesting styles, with some knowledge built-in. Perhaps, Tigran belongs in that group as well.

We'll see when I catch them cold handed on the chess board or vise versa

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Yes, Romi could then play the Old Indian, too!

Let it push 1.d4 and I will serve it a nice variation of the Old Indian Defense that will remember me for it for the rest of existence

Cheers

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Hi

Unfortunately I didn't manage to hold Tigran 2.4n x64 with the black pieces playing a variation of the Old Indian defense ....

Tigran is extremely territorial and quite aggressive which resulted is a series of minor blunders from my side accumulating to distorted position for black and losing the game ....

30... Bxf6 was a critical weak move that if played 30...gxf6 whould have saved the game,maybe

BTW,I listened to Larry and doubled the time control for the chess engines from 40 minutes + 20 seconds increment to 80 Minutes and kept the same increment ....

I will try to punish Tigran with the white pieces but no promises from my side ....

Enjoy

[pgn][Event "Et Mortuus Est Rex"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2020.07.05"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Tigran 2.4n x64 q"]
[Black "Dr.Deeb"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A54"]
[WhiteElo "2402"]
[BlackElo "2032"]
[Annotator "Stockfish NNUE run (halfkp-256x2-32-32) 30062"]
[PlyCount "83"]
[EventDate "2020.??.??"]

{A54: Old Indian Defence with Nf3, but without e4} 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 d6 3. c4
Nbd7 4. Nc3 e5 5. Bg5 Be7 6. e3 O-O 7. Be2 c6 8. O-O Re8 9. Qc2 Qc7 10. Rfd1 a6
11. Rac1 b6 {last book move} 12. b4 Bb7 13. Bh4 exd4 14. Nxd4 c5 15. bxc5 bxc5
16. Nf5 Bf8 17. Rb1 Rab8 18. Bg5 (18. Qd2 Re6 19. Qc2 Ree8 $16) 18... h6 {
Black threatens to win material: h6xg5} 19. Bf4 {The pressure on the backward
pawn d6 grows} Ne5 20. a4 Bc8 21. Rxb8 Qxb8 22. e4 (22. Bf1 Qb6 $14) 22... Qc7
23. Nd5 Nxd5 (23... Qd8 24. Nde3 $14) 24. cxd5 $14 Bxf5 (24... Bd7 25. Ne3 (25.
Bxa6 $143 Qa5 26. Bb5 Bxb5 27. axb5 Qxb5 $14) 25... Qa5 26. Ra1 $16) 25. exf5
$16 c4 26. Bxe5 Rxe5 27. Qxc4 Qxc4 28. Bxc4 Re4 (28... a5 $5 $14) 29. Rc1 $16
Be7 30. f6 (30. g3 $5 $16) 30... Bxf6 (30... gxf6 $5 31. Bxa6 Rxa4 $11) 31. Bd3
$14 {White threatens to win material: Bd3xe4} Re8 32. Bxa6 Re5 {Black
threatens to win material: Re5xd5} 33. Bc4 Re7 $2 (33... Bd8 $142 $5 $14 {
and Black has air to breath}) 34. a5 $18 Bd4 35. a6 Ba7 $2 (35... Rc7 36. Kf1
$18) 36. Bd3 (36. Bb5 {makes it even easier for White} f5 $18) 36... Bc5 $2 (
36... g5 $142 $18) 37. Kf1 g6 (37... Kf8 38. Bb5 Ra7 $18) 38. Rxc5 $1 {it's
all over} dxc5 39. d6 (39. Bb5 $5 {seems even better} Ra7 40. d6 Ra8 $18) 39...
Rd7 40. Ke2 Kf8 41. Bb5 Ra7 42. Kd3 1-0[/pgn]

It is hard to believe that this engine could have almost the same rating as the Simplex engine you beat. This one plays like I would expect a 2400 rated engine to play, meaning that it doesn't make errors that are obvious to a human master without even having to think. It is my belief that in general the engines rated 2400 on the CCRL list, when running on a good computer like yours, should be evenly matched with humans well above 2400 FIDE, probably above 2500. If I'm right, it's no surprise that it would beat you, and Simplex must somehow be an aberration.

Again, I think the lower you go down the rating list, engines will have vastly different strengths and weaknesses and the earned Elo is just an average figure of those. Not all 2400-level engines are cut from the same cloth, we can be sure of that.

I am sure that I'll discover a lot Elo distortion above and below the 2400 Elo level ....
Simplex was the first one to be exposed as an extremely overrated chess engine and in my opinion should go down at least 300 Elo in the rating list .....

Just as there are human players who are good anti-computer specialists, and others who are not, but who may otherwise be of similar strength, we also have engines that are more susceptible to anti-computer strategies and others that are less so.

Well,I don't consider myself to be an anti-computer specialist because of the simple fact that I don't use anti-computer techniques per say ....
Look at my game with simplex,it was an English opening that I almost know it's ins and outs perfectly and I outplayed it ....

IN my game with Tigran where I am finishing him right now with the Larsen attack,it's the same situation where I play an opening line which I am pretty much extremely familiar with ....

If I play a human master I will do the same thing over and over again ....

The so called anti-computer specialists play something like 1.e3 2.d4 3.c3 4.f4 for example trying to confuse the chess engine and closing the position early which is definitely not my cup of tea ....

Cheers
Dr.D

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Yes, that could also explain the "Elo collapse" observed the more you go up the list. It's because engines didn't get better Elo because they played better chess, but because they got increasingly better at exploiting engine's mistakes (mainly, the mistakes of the old version of the same engine.)

An excellent observation and most probably the main factor for this observed Elo distortion ....

Cheers

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Among the 2400 CCRL level engines, Romichess, Gaia, Gosu and Ares GB 1.1 are reputed to have more interesting styles, with some knowledge built-in. Perhaps, Tigran belongs in that group as well.

+1

Also there's...

-Gromit 2.0/2.13/2.20
- Phalanx XXII
- Trace
- WChess 1.06
- Queen 2.36
-Baron 1.6.1
- Rebel 6.0
- Comet A90
- Horizon 4.3/4.4
- LambChop 7.0
- Kiwi 0.6
- Terra 3.4

All of the above are 2300-2400ish and have beautiful playing styles for a reasonably strong human to train against.

In fact, I think to set up a beautiful Rosewood DGT board and play against these guys at LTC (simulating real tournament play)- combined with perhaps a nice glass of wine and some classical cello music - would indeed be one of life's pleasures.

Bring them on

I also use ROSEwood DGT board combined with the mind blowing compilations of Niccolo Paganini running on a pricey Panasonic home theater system

Cherrs,
Dr.D