What are Stockfish and Komodo estimated rating for these 5 depths ?

[Chessqueen]

I see. I find really strange that the lowest FIDE rating that can be achieved is 1000 and starting people get higher than that already. My students stop dropping pieces after a few games and have no problem getting to a higher level than Stockfish's depth 1, it's surprising 800 elo players at chess.com keep dropping pieces and never improve beyond depth 1's strength. Maybe mentoring is necessary and what I observe isn't typical (because nobody is there to explain to them why they lost.)

Here is my Other game where I decided to take the Bishop on Move 28... instead of Taking the Rook with Check, the first I lost on time, because I was looking for a way to beat Komodo with my Rook for Komodo's Bishop plus 3 extra pawns advantage. BAsed on your statement that you gave a Queen Plus a Knight to one of your beginner student, you seems to be around 2100 thru 2175. Anyway you should try to play Komodo13.3 or 14 at Depth 5 with the same time control 10 + 5 sec increment and let us know how you did.

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2020.07.24"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Komodo-13.3-64bit"]
[Black "ChessQueen"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "1900"]
[ECO "A45"]
[Opening "Queen's Pawn"]
[Time "10:44:26"]
[Variation "Indian"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "78"]


1. d4 {(d2-d4 d7-d5 Nb1-c3 Nb8-c6) +0.42/4 0} Nf6 2. Qd3 {(Qd1-d3 d7-d5
Nb1-c3 Nb8-c6 Ng1-f3) +0.40/4 0} d6 3. e4 {(e2-e4 c7-c6 Ng1-f3 Qd8-c7)
+1.02/4 0} e5 4. Nf3 {(Ng1-f3 e5xd4 Nf3xd4 c7-c6) +0.72/4 0} exd4 5. Be2
{(Bf1-e2 Bc8-d7 Nf3xd4 Nb8-c6 Nd4xc6) +0.72/4} c5 6. c3 {(c2-c3 Nb8-c6
c3xd4 Ra8-b8) +0.66/4 0} d5 7. e5 {(e4-e5 Nf6-e4 O-O Nb8-c6 c3xd4) +0.49/4
0} Ne4 8. O-O {(O-O Nb8-c6 c3xd4 Ra8-b8) +0.49/4} dxc3 9. Nxc3 {(Nb1xc3
Ne4xc3 b2xc3 c5-c4) +0.43/4 0} Nxc3 10. bxc3 {(b2xc3 c5-c4 Qd3-d2 Nb8-c6)
+0.43/4} Nc6 11. Rd1 {(Rf1-d1 c5-c4 Qd3-d2 Bf8-c5) +0.90/4 0} Be6 12. Qe3
{(Qd3-e3 Be6-f5 Be2-b5 Bf5-c2) +0.53/4 0} Be7 13. Rb1 {(Ra1-b1 Qd8-d7
Be2-b5 O-O) +0.16/4 0} Qc7 14. Bd3 {(Be2-d3 O-O Bd3-c2 Ra8-e8) +0.14/4 0}
Rd8 15. Bb5 {(Bd3-b5 O-O Bb5-d3 Rf8-e8) -0.11/4 0} a6 16. Bd3 {(Bb5-d3
d5-d4 c3xd4 c5xd4 Qe3-e4) -0.67/4 0} d4 17. Qd2 {(Qe3-d2 d4xc3 Qd2xc3 O-O)
-0.67/4} Bg4 18. Qf4 {(Qd2-f4 Bg4xf3 Qf4xf3 d4xc3) -1.02/4 0} Bxf3 19. Qxf3
{(Qf4xf3 Nc6xe5 Qf3xb7) -1.02/4} dxc3 20. e6 {(e5-e6 f7xe6 Qf3-g4 O-O)
-0.63/4 0} fxe6 21. Qh5+ {(Qf3-h5+ Ke8-f8 Bc1-e3 Rd8-d5 Qh5-g4) -0.63/4}
Kf8 22. Be3 {(Bc1-e3 Rd8-d5 Qh5-g4 Nc6-e5) -0.63/4} Rd5 23. Qf3+ {(Qh5-f3+
Kf8-g8 Qf3-g4 Kg8-f7 Be3-f4) -0.63/4} Bf6 24. Bf4 {(Be3-f4 Rd5xd3 Rd1xd3)
-1.46/4 0} Qd7 25. Be4 {(Bd3-e4 Rd5xd1+ Rb1xd1 Qd7-e7 Bf4-g3) -0.18/4 0}
Nd4 26. Rxd4 {(Rd1xd4 c5xd4 Bf4-g3 Kf8-e8) -2.70/4 0} Rxd4 27. Be5 {(Bf4-e5
Rd4-b4 Be5xc3 Rb4xb1+ Be4xb1) -1.74/4 0} Rb4 28. Bxf6 {(Be5xf6 Rb4xb1+
Be4xb1 g7xf6 Qf3xf6+ Kf8-g8) -1.74/4 0} gxf6 29. Qxf6+ {(Qf3xf6+ Kf8-g8
Qf6-g5+ Kg8-f7 Qg5-h5+ Kf7-f6 Qh5-f3+ Kf6-e7) -1.45/4 0} Kg8 30. Qg5+
{(Qf6-g5+ Kg8-f7 Qg5-h5+ Kf7-f6 Qh5-f3+ Kf6-e7 Qf3xc3) -1.45/4} Qg7 31.
Qd8+ {(Qg5-d8+ Qg7-f8 Qd8-g5+ Kg8-f7 Rb1-e1 Qf8-d6) -0.89/4 0} Qf8 32. Qg5+
{(Qd8-g5+ Kg8-f7 Rb1-e1 Qf8-d6 Qg5-h5+ Kf7-e7 Be4xh7) -0.89/4} Qg7 33. Qd8+
{(Qg5-d8+ Qg7-f8 Qd8-g5+) 0.00/4 0} Qf8 34. Qg5+ {(Qd8-g5+ Kg8-f7 Rb1-e1
Qf8-d6 Qg5-h5+ Kf7-e7) 0.00/4} Qg7 {3-fold repetition} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

[Uri Blass]

I see. I find really strange that the lowest FIDE rating that can be achieved is 1000 and starting people get higher than that already. My students stop dropping pieces after a few games and have no problem getting to a higher level than Stockfish's depth 1, it's surprising 800 elo players at chess.com keep dropping pieces and never improve beyond depth 1's strength. Maybe mentoring is necessary and what I observe isn't typical (because nobody is there to explain to them why they lost.)

Are your students adults, teenagers, or kids? I know few adults with ratings like 800 (these would have to be USCF or online ratings since FIDE doesn't go that low); when I was actively teaching lots of elementary school kids a decade ago an 800 rating was usually typical of maybe the third best kid in the school, someone who needed about queen and knight odds from me for a fair game. What is the lowest FIDE-rated student you have who has actually beaten Stockfish at depth 1, and what age?

I believe
even for most adults it is not easy not to drop pieces.

Unfortunately I know many adults who do mistakes and drop pieces.

In most cases they are not interested in learning chess but it is because people are more interested in things that they are better in them.

I doubt if it is possible to teach most adults who are new to the game to beat me with odds of Queen and 2 rooks in less than a week.

[Ovyron]

Are your students adults, teenagers, or kids?

Of all ages, from 4 years old to +60.

What is the lowest FIDE-rated student you have who has actually beaten Stockfish at depth 1, and what age?

None of them have FIDE-ratings, the ratings I were talking about are just guesses by me, and since I've taught them chess from scratch (they come as a blank state), I see their evolution from lowest possible elo to the point they'd beat Stockfish depth 1.

So I thought Stockfish depth 1 was really weak, but maybe people can improve really fast when mentored, and the students were hundreds of points stronger than I thought. After the current world situation this has come to a halt, but if I ever train someone from scratch again I'll take actual notes, my impression is that training someone to beat Stockfish depth 1 is very easy, threat recognition is all it takes, but all I have is anecdotal evidence from memory.

[Uri Blass]

Are your students adults, teenagers, or kids?

Of all ages, from 4 years old to +60.

What is the lowest FIDE-rated student you have who has actually beaten Stockfish at depth 1, and what age?

None of them have FIDE-ratings, the ratings I were talking about are just guesses by me, and since I've taught them chess from scratch (they come as a blank state), I see their evolution from lowest possible elo to the point they'd beat Stockfish depth 1.

So I thought Stockfish depth 1 was really weak, but maybe people can improve really fast when mentored, and the students were hundreds of points stronger than I thought. After the current world situation this has come to a halt, but if I ever train someone from scratch again I'll take actual notes, my impression is that training someone to beat Stockfish depth 1 is very easy, threat recognition is all it takes, but all I have is anecdotal evidence from memory.

How much time did it take you to teach them to beat stockfish depth 1?

What is your method?
Did you play with them when you gave them instructions?
Did you give them tactical exercises?

Edit: another question:
What is the percentage of students that started with you and did not quit chess before beating stockfish depth 1.

I ask it because it is possible that you teach only strong students and the weak students who fail to follow your instructions do not want to learn with you.

[Milos]

1. For Depth 1 ply, the choice of engine doesn't matter much, I usually quote 1200 as a rough guide for Komodo 1 ply, but I could be off 200 elo either way, this is not carefully measured. But for players with ratings below 1000, we have to weaken it further to give them a chance, so I think it's at least in the right ballpark..

You don't seems to have a clue. SF depth 1 is above 1500. It's not really depth 1, it has full qs included. Try playing open games against it and you'd see.

[Milos]

None of them have FIDE-ratings, the ratings I were talking about are just guesses by me, and since I've taught them chess from scratch (they come as a blank state), I see their evolution from lowest possible elo to the point they'd beat Stockfish depth 1.

So I thought Stockfish depth 1 was really weak, but maybe people can improve really fast when mentored, and the students were hundreds of points stronger than I thought. After the current world situation this has come to a halt, but if I ever train someone from scratch again I'll take actual notes, my impression is that training someone to beat Stockfish depth 1 is very easy, threat recognition is all it takes, but all I have is anecdotal evidence from memory.

Considering you have an extremely long history of unsubstantiated claims I wouldn't trust you even when claiming the grass is green. I simply call BS on your claims about weak SF at depth 1 and I'm pretty sure none of your "students" can really beat it. As a matter of fact I doubt you even know how to set up GUI to play SF at depth 1. You are probably playing nodes=1.

[Uri Blass]

1. For Depth 1 ply, the choice of engine doesn't matter much, I usually quote 1200 as a rough guide for Komodo 1 ply, but I could be off 200 elo either way, this is not carefully measured. But for players with ratings below 1000, we have to weaken it further to give them a chance, so I think it's at least in the right ballpark..

You don't seems to have a clue. SF depth 1 is above 1500. It's not really depth 1, it has full qs included. Try playing open games against it and you'd see.

Rating is dependent on the time control.

[Milos]

1. For Depth 1 ply, the choice of engine doesn't matter much, I usually quote 1200 as a rough guide for Komodo 1 ply, but I could be off 200 elo either way, this is not carefully measured. But for players with ratings below 1000, we have to weaken it further to give them a chance, so I think it's at least in the right ballpark..

You don't seems to have a clue. SF depth 1 is above 1500. It's not really depth 1, it has full qs included. Try playing open games against it and you'd see.

Rating is dependent on the time control.

How can fixed depth rating depend on TC? If you mean human time control, I am not even aware of a GUI where you can have fixed depth for one opponent and time w/wo increment for another. So how do you even think that could be measured, with clock on human side playing OTB against an engine with operator? How realistic is something like that?
In absolute terms ofc you are right. Not even Carlsen or any other human would be able to avoid loss against SF depth 1 at for example 10s a game.
Still that is human rating, not engine rating. Simply all humans have rating against engines well below 0 Elo (actually unmeasurably low Elo) at 1s per game. And below 1000Elo at 10s a game.

[Ovyron]

How much time did it take you to teach them to beat stockfish depth 1?

About a week.

What is your method?

Nothing special: Teach them the rules. Play some games against them, just to make sure they know the rules. In the games explain their blunders and give them the option to continue playing or to revert them. Give them general advice about piece development and how to think after the opponent has made moves that make threats. Make punishing moves against wrong moves that they play. Play more games with them and make them play against each other.

Did you play with them when you gave them instructions?

Yes.

Did you give them tactical exercises?

No.

What is the percentage of students that started with you and did not quit chess before beating stockfish depth 1.

Let's say that 95% quit chess before reaching that level, and most of the remaining ones quit chess afterwards. Chess is not very popular around here, the sad thing is seeing great talent being unused (one of my students had a mate in 2 against me that she missed, and then she quit so that was the last game of her life...)

[Ovyron]

As a matter of fact I doubt you even know how to set up GUI to play SF at depth 1. You are probably playing nodes=1.

Are we even in the same world? Around here Stockfish 8 Depth 1 gets its queen trapped with ease:

[pgn][Date "2020.07.24"]
[White "Ovyron"]
[Black "Stockfish 8 Depth 1"]
[Result "1-0"]

1. Nc3 {0s} d5 {-0.47/1 0s} 2. e4 {2s} e6 {-0.18/1 0s}
3. d4 {3s} Bb4 {+0.27/1 0s} 4. e5 {1s} Qh4 {-0.01/1 0s}
5. Nf3 {3s} Qe4+ {+0.43/1 0s} 6. Be2 {1s} Ne7 {-0.05/1 0s}
7. O-O {1s} Bxc3 {+1.57/1 0s} 8. bxc3 {1s} O-O {+1.01/1 0s}
9. Re1 {1s} Nbc6 {+0.72/1 0s} 10. Bd3 {4s} Qg4 {+0.95/1 0s}
11. h3 {2s} Qh5 {+1.33/1 0s} 12. Be2 {7s} Qg6 {+0.62/1 0s}
13. g4 {5s} Bd7 {+0.30/1 0s} 14. Nh4 {3s} Qe4 {+0.23/1 0s}
15. Bf3 {7s} Qxe1+ {+5.28/1 0s} 16. Qxe1 {1s} h6 {+5.21/1
0s} 17. g5 {6s} Ng6 {+5.16/1 0s} 18. Nxg6 {2s} fxg6
{+5.16/1 0s} 19. Qe2 {1s} Kh7 {+5.45/1 0s} 20. gxh6 {1s}
gxh6 {+5.44/1 0s} 21. Qe3 {5s} Kg8 {+5.54/1 0s} 22. Kg2
{2s} g5 {+5.14/1 0s} 23. h4 {1s} Rxf3 {+5.43/1 0s} 24. Qxf3
{1s} Rf8 {+5.16/1 0s} 25. Qg4 {1s} Ne7 {+6.06/1 0s}
26. hxg5 {1s} Nf5 {+6.65/1 0s} 27. gxh6+ {4s} Kh7 {+6.65/1
0s} 28. Kh3 {7s} Rg8 {+6.19/1 0s} 29. Qf3 {4s} Bb5 {+5.57/1
0s} 30. Bf4 {3s} b6 {+6.06/1 0s} 31. a4 {5s} Bc6 {+6.22/1
0s} 32. Qh5 {21s} Be8 {+5.74/1 0s} 33. Qe2 {3s} c5 {+6.17/1
0s} 34. dxc5 {16s} bxc5 {+6.08/1 0s} 35. Qa6 {10s} Bd7
{+7.41/1 0s} 36. Qxa7 {1s} Rd8 {+7.92/1 0s} 37. Qxc5 {6s}
Rg8 {+7.64/1 0s} 38. a5 {3s} Ra8 {+8.14/1 0s} 39. a6 {1s}
Rg8 {+8.87/1 0s} 40. a7 {1s} Ra8 {+9.44/1 0s} 41. Qc7 {7s}
Rxa7 {+12.72/1 0s} 42. Rxa7 {2s} Kg6 {+20.58/1 0s} 43. Qxd7
{3s} Ne7 {+26.46/1 0s} 44. Qxe7 {1s} Kf5 {+25.09/1 0s}
45. Qf6+ {1s} Ke4 {+26.52/1 0s} 46. Bg3 {6s} d4 {+27.10/1
0s} 47. Qf4+ {1s} Kd5 {+27.10/1 0s} 48. Qf3+ {2s} Kc5
{+26.06/1 0s} 49. Rc7+ {1s} Kb6 {+28.31/1 0s} 50. Qc6+ {1s}
Ka5 {+M1/1 0s} 51. Qc5+ {2s} Ka4 {+M1/1 0s} 52. Ra7# {1s} 1-0 [/pgn]

If that's FIDE 1500 level then I don't know what FIDE ELO is. I can beat Stockfish depth 1 100% of the time...