NNUE at LTC
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
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- Posts: 165
- Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:29 am
NNUE at LTC
its me or nnue is weaker at LTC? i see the longer TC the smaller difference than regular sf
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- Posts: 476
- Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:00 pm
- Full name: Henk Drost
Re: NNUE at LTC
ELO compression is the biggest factor probably.
Take FastGM.de
Difference between SF11 and Eth 12.25 is 253 elo at 60+0.6.
At 60m+15s it's 170 elo.
That doesn't mean Eth scales better than SF11, it's just less likely to blunder away a draw.
You can replace Ethereal with most engines on that list. That would mean either SF11 has horrible scaling, or elo compression is a thing.
To compare scaling it's better to take the time odds needed to make SFdev equal to SFNNUE at a given short TC.
Then increase TC and check if results have changed with the same time odds.
My 27-6 net also performed better at 10m+6s than at 60s+0.6s. (Fastgm list)
Take FastGM.de
Difference between SF11 and Eth 12.25 is 253 elo at 60+0.6.
At 60m+15s it's 170 elo.
That doesn't mean Eth scales better than SF11, it's just less likely to blunder away a draw.
You can replace Ethereal with most engines on that list. That would mean either SF11 has horrible scaling, or elo compression is a thing.
To compare scaling it's better to take the time odds needed to make SFdev equal to SFNNUE at a given short TC.
Then increase TC and check if results have changed with the same time odds.
My 27-6 net also performed better at 10m+6s than at 60s+0.6s. (Fastgm list)
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- Posts: 165
- Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:29 am
Re: NNUE at LTC
i see from mwyoung tournaments (TC 10min,30mins,32 threads) that nnue vs sf is close to =
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- Posts: 74
- Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:25 am
- Full name: Prasanna Bandihole
Re: NNUE at LTC
NNUE plays beautiful positional chess at LTC (10min+20sec). Sample games
[pgn][Event "Stockfinn vs Fire rapid, Rapid 10.0min+"]
[Site "DESKTOP-IRD8JP2"]
[Date "2020.07.31"]
[Round "1"]
[White "SF+NNUE PO 270720 x64 avx2"]
[Black "Komodo 14 64-bit"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C18"]
[Annotator "0.37;0.35"]
[PlyCount "91"]
[TimeControl "600+20"]
{Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-9900K CPU @ 3.60GHz 3600 MHz W=33.0 plies; 8,341kN/s;
731,556 TBAs; French Defense Powerbook 2012.ctg B=34.6 plies; 15,710kN/s; 549,
744 TBAs; French Defense Powerbook 2012.ctg} 1. e4 {B 0} e6 {B 0} 2. d4 {
0.37/34 25} d5 {B 0} 3. Nc3 {0.43/33 30} Bb4 {B 0} 4. e5 {0.35/31 16} c5 {B 0}
5. a3 {0.32/32 24} Bxc3+ {B 0} 6. bxc3 {0.22/34 25} Qa5 {B 0} 7. Bd2 {0.66/32
17} Qa4 {B 0} 8. Qb1 {0.52/33 35} c4 {B 0} 9. Be2 {0.70/34 22} Nc6 {B 0} 10.
Bh5 {0.79/39 77} Nge7 {0.35/33 36} 11. Ne2 {0.72/34 27} O-O {0.46/33 56 (Bd7)}
12. O-O {0.86/31 18} Nf5 {0.46/35 103 (Ng6)} 13. Bg4 {1.18/33 59} Nce7 {
0.46/34 28} 14. Re1 {0.97/32 31} Bd7 {0.56/35 112 (h6)} 15. Nf4 {1.51/32 26
(g3)} Qa5 {0.58/35 221 (Kh8)} 16. Nh5 {1.70/28 20} Kh8 {0.82/36 73} 17. Qd1 {
1.83/28 19 (Qc1)} Ba4 {0.76/35 90 (Rg8)} 18. Bxf5 {2.43/32 24 (Bh3)} Nxf5 {
1.14/32 17 (exf5)} 19. g4 {2.75/32 19} Ne7 {1.48/31 20} 20. Bg5 {3.01/32 38
(Re3)} Ng8 {1.03/31 19} 21. Qd2 {3.09/33 43 (Re3)} Qb5 {0.94/34 34} 22. Rab1 {
3.17/33 36 (f4)} Qe8 {1.44/32 37 (Qd7)} 23. Re3 {3.66/29 27 (Bh4)} f5 {1.97/34
58 (b5)} 24. exf6 {4.06/35 31} gxf6 {2.04/34 25} 25. Bf4 {4.18/35 27 (Bh4)} Qg6
{1.86/33 16} 26. f3 {4.47/35 55 (h3)} Rf7 {2.28/38 59 (b6)} 27. Rxe6 {4.86/31
21} Qxc2 {2.04/36 15 (Bxc2)} 28. Qxc2 {5.00/33 23} Bxc2 {2.42/37 16} 29. Rbe1 {
5.61/33 24} Bg6 {2.45/37 18 (Raf8)} 30. Nxf6 {6.37/33 22} Nxf6 {2.57/37 19} 31.
Be5 {6.23/32 26} Kg7 {2.73/39 44} 32. g5 {6.39/33 23 (Kf2)} Rd7 {3.19/36 45
(Kg8)} 33. Bxf6+ {7.17/31 25} Kf8 {3.35/34 19} 34. Kf2 {7.54/31 22} Re8 {
3.50/37 51} 35. Rxe8+ {7.45/31 34} Bxe8 {3.54/35 20} 36. Kg3 {7.57/31 35} Bg6 {
3.59/36 42} 37. Kf4 {7.92/32 33} Rc7 {3.76/37 41 (Bh5)} 38. h4 {8.51/31 28} Kf7
{3.59/36 20 (Bh5)} 39. Ke5 {10.23/30 25} Rc8 {4.01/35 20 (Kf8)} 40. Kxd5 {
11.65/31 33} Re8 {4.18/32 19} 41. Rxe8 {12.28/42 24 (Be5)} Kxe8 {5.64/33 21}
42. Kxc4 {12.88/38 22} Bh5 {6.28/34 20 (Bf7+)} 43. f4 {13.18/38 22} Kd7 {
6.88/34 20} 44. d5 {13.55/36 29} a5 {6.98/31 20 (Bf3)} 45. Kd4 {13.83/37 29} b5
{9.97/33 20 (Kd6)} 46. Ke5 {14.11/33 31 (Be5) adjud.} 1-0
[/pgn]
[pgn][Event "Stockfinn vs Fire rapid, Rapid 10.0min+"]
[Site "DESKTOP-IRD8JP2"]
[Date "2020.07.29"]
[Round "1"]
[White "SF+NNUE PO 270720 x64 avx2"]
[Black "Komodo 14 64-bit"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B07"]
[Annotator "0.37;0.52"]
[PlyCount "115"]
[TimeControl "600+20"]
{Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-9900K CPU @ 3.60GHz 3600 MHz W=33.9 plies; 6,048kN/s; 6,
082,954 TBAs; Noomen.ctg B=36.5 plies; 16,962kN/s; 9,842,736 TBAs; Noomen.ctg}
1. e4 {B 0 White last book move} d6 {B 0} 2. d4 {0.37/34 25} Nf6 {B 0} 3. Nc3 {
0.31/31 18} g6 {B 0} 4. Be3 {0.49/28 27} Bg7 {B 0} 5. Qd2 {0.76/27 14} c6 {B 0}
6. Bh6 {0.58/32 42} Bxh6 {B 0} 7. Qxh6 {0.63/34 24} Qa5 {B 0} 8. Bd3 {0.95/28
19} c5 {B 0} 9. d5 {1.20/29 19} Nbd7 {B 0 Black last book move} 10. O-O-O {
1.16/32 32} b5 {0.52/35 36 (Ng4)} 11. Bxb5 {1.09/38 59} Rb8 {0.67/37 35} 12.
Bxd7+ {1.01/36 47} Bxd7 {0.53/36 27 (Kxd7)} 13. Nge2 {0.90/33 43 (f3)} Bb5 {
0.83/35 37 (Ng4)} 14. Rhe1 {0.81/37 56} Bxe2 {0.70/37 31} 15. Rxe2 {0.76/36 16}
Qb4 {0.73/38 43} 16. Kd2 {0.80/35 20} Qc4 {0.74/37 56} 17. Rb1 {1.11/38 65}
Qd4+ {0.76/37 64} 18. Kc1 {1.11/40 25} g5 {0.73/37 36} 19. Qh3 {1.18/38 36} Nd7
{0.84/37 30} 20. Nd1 {1.00/40 39 (b3)} Qf6 {0.82/35 30 (h5)} 21. Qf5 {1.41/32
22 (b3)} Qh6 {0.95/35 31} 22. Re3 {1.53/34 21} Qxh2 {0.91/39 68} 23. Qxg5 {
1.57/36 24} Nf6 {0.96/38 29 (h6)} 24. Rh3 {1.85/36 22} Qg1 {0.88/38 35} 25. e5
{1.62/34 29} Rg8 {1.07/40 39} 26. Qf5 {1.80/35 28} dxe5 {1.00/39 34} 27. Qxe5 {
2.02/38 36} Nd7 {1.19/37 26} 28. Qe4 {1.99/38 84} Rb4 {1.26/39 58} 29. Qxh7 {
2.13/36 33} Rxg2 {1.00/38 53} 30. Rh1 {2.08/36 46} Rg7 {1.14/38 30} 31. Rxg1 {
2.01/34 28} Rxh7 {1.16/37 25} 32. Rg8+ {2.10/33 22} Nf8 {1.16/5 0} 33. b3 {
2.14/34 28} Rf4 {1.02/37 43 (Rd4)} 34. Rb2 {1.93/32 57 (c4)} Rh1 {1.11/41 80
(f5)} 35. c4 {1.97/31 15} f5 {1.18/39 52} 36. Rg7 {2.28/32 70} Re1 {1.11/37 24}
37. Rg3 {2.18/30 9} Kf7 {1.20/37 26} 38. Re3 {1.90/29 47 (Rd2)} Rxe3 {1.03/35
27} 39. fxe3 {2.14/27 20} Rh4 {1.10/38 34} 40. Rg2 {1.96/29 46 (Rf2)} Nd7 {
1.19/36 35 (Kf6)} 41. Nf2 {2.45/27 10} Ne5 {0.90/37 23} 42. Kb2 {2.73/27 17} e6
{1.57/37 94 (Rh6)} 43. dxe6+ {3.07/25 10} Kxe6 {1.61/38 32} 44. Ka3 {3.89/29 30
} Rh7 {1.81/40 96 (Kd6)} 45. Ka4 {4.40/33 10} Kd6 {2.01/38 77 (Rb7)} 46. Nd1 {
4.85/30 20} Rb7 {1.99/36 13} 47. Nc3 {5.02/35 10} Rb4+ {2.06/36 14} 48. Ka3 {
5.56/36 15} Rb6 {2.22/36 14} 49. Rd2+ {5.79/35 16} Ke6 {2.12/38 25} 50. e4 {
6.02/35 13} Ra6+ {2.09/36 16 (fxe4)} 51. Kb2 {6.22/35 15} fxe4 {2.13/39 39} 52.
Nxe4 {6.51/36 15} Rc6 {2.21/35 14} 53. Rd8 {7.32/37 17 (Rd5)} Ng6 {2.21/36 27
(Kf5)} 54. Rd5 {8.45/36 13} Nf4 {2.34/37 20} 55. Rg5 {8.80/38 14} Nd3+ {
2.45/37 13} 56. Kc3 {9.02/40 15 (Kc2)} Ne5 {2.52/36 15} 57. Rh5 {9.21/40 15}
Rc7 {2.80/35 17} 58. Kb2 {9.30/44 15 (Kc2) adjud.} 1-0
[/pgn]
[pgn][Event "Stockfinn vs Fire rapid, Rapid 10.0min+"]
[Site "DESKTOP-IRD8JP2"]
[Date "2020.07.27"]
[Round "1"]
[White "SF+NNUE AIO 270720 x64 avx2"]
[Black "Deep Shredder 13 x64"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C96"]
[Annotator "0.11;0.21"]
[PlyCount "105"]
[TimeControl "600+20"]
{Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-9900K CPU @ 3.60GHz 3600 MHz W=63.9 plies; 8,430kN/s;
315,785 TBAs; Noomen.ctg B=26.4 plies; 16,303kN/s; Noomen.ctg} 1. e4 {B 0} e5 {
B 0} 2. Nf3 {B 0} Nc6 {B 0} 3. Bb5 {B 0} a6 {B 0} 4. Ba4 {B 0} Nf6 {B 0 Both
last book move} 5. O-O {0.11/29 31} Be7 {0.21/29 30} 6. Re1 {0.22/31 22 (Bxc6)}
b5 {0.13/29 35} 7. Bb3 {0.22/32 26} d6 {0.10/30 31 (0-0)} 8. c3 {0.21/34 19}
O-O {0.10/30 50} 9. h3 {0.14/36 22} Na5 {0.14/29 47} 10. Bc2 {0.13/35 18} c5 {
0.15/29 23} 11. d4 {0.14/35 33} exd4 {0.23/29 71 (Qc7)} 12. cxd4 {0.25/31 19}
Re8 {0.20/29 37 (cxd4)} 13. Nc3 {0.29/35 65 (Bf4)} Bb7 {0.21/31 47 (cxd4)} 14.
d5 {0.34/29 17 (b3)} Nd7 {0.23/31 50} 15. b3 {0.31/33 27} Bf6 {0.24/30 40} 16.
Bb2 {0.27/35 32} Ne5 {0.28/31 23 (Bc8)} 17. Nxe5 {0.30/68 134} Bxe5 {0.27/31 46
} 18. Rb1 {0.29/36 20} Bc8 {0.32/31 31} 19. Ne2 {0.33/34 23} Bxb2 {0.33/31 73
(Bd7)} 20. Rxb2 {0.38/35 35} Qf6 {0.35/31 88 (Bd7)} 21. Rb1 {0.33/33 20} Bd7 {
0.32/31 23 (Nb7)} 22. f4 {0.46/34 88 (Qd2)} b4 {0.35/29 97 (Nb7)} 23. Qd2 {
0.51/34 39} Nb7 {0.38/28 41} 24. Ng3 {0.58/31 39} Bb5 {0.51/30 65 (Qh6)} 25.
Rbd1 {0.75/31 30} g6 {0.60/30 18} 26. Qe3 {0.71/31 28} Qg7 {0.67/30 40 (Qb2)}
27. e5 {0.86/30 25} f5 {0.67/29 14 (Rf8)} 28. Bxf5 {1.36/32 50 (Nf1)} gxf5 {
0.63/31 31} 29. Nxf5 {1.26/30 15} Qg6 {0.87/31 43} 30. g4 {1.12/30 22} h5 {
0.94/31 35 (a5)} 31. Rd2 {1.89/27 24 (Qe4)} Rab8 {1.94/25 30 (h4)} 32. e6 {
2.49/26 46 (Nh4)} Rbc8 {2.31/28 15 (h4)} 33. Ng3 {5.22/26 20 (Rg2)} Qh6 {
4.72/27 28} 34. g5 {5.91/27 27} Qh8 {6.28/28 26} 35. f5 {6.86/28 33} Rf8 {
6.82/28 24 (Qe5)} 36. f6 {9.68/29 23 (e7)} Qh7 {10.32/29 22} 37. f7+ {10.34/32
28} Kh8 {11.51/30 22} 38. Rf2 {10.79/32 23 (Qf4)} Nd8 {12.24/29 20} 39. Rf6 {
11.29/36 30 (Qf4)} Bd3 {13.20/26 21 (Nxf7)} 40. Rh6 {24.14/36 20} Nxf7 {
15.62/26 15} 41. exf7 {68.72/40 22} Bg6 {14.22/27 16 (Rxf7)} 42. Rf1 {#12/71
20 (Rxh7+)} Rc7 {#12/35 13} 43. Qe6 {#11/77 20} Qxh6 {#11/22 0} 44. gxh6 {
#10/86 21} Kh7 {#10/20 0} 45. Ne4 {#9/90 23} Rfxf7 {#9/18 0} 46. Ng5+ {#8/116
19} Kxh6 {#8/20 0} 47. Nxf7+ {#7/180 19 (Rxf7)} Kh7 {#9/18 0} 48. Ng5+ {
#6/245 17} Kh6 {#7/16 0} 49. h4 {#5/245 2 (Qxd6)} Kg7 {#5/13 0 (Rg7)} 50. Qf6+
{#4/245 0} Kh6 {#4/8 0} 51. Qf8+ {#3/245 0 (Qh8+)} Rg7 {#4/8 0} 52. Ne6 {
#2/245 0 (Qh8+)} Kh7 {#1/2 0} 53. Qxg7# {#1/245 0} 1-0
[/pgn]
[pgn][Event "Stockfinn vs Fire rapid, Rapid 10.0min+"]
[Site "DESKTOP-IRD8JP2"]
[Date "2020.07.31"]
[Round "1"]
[White "SF+NNUE PO 270720 x64 avx2"]
[Black "Komodo 14 64-bit"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C18"]
[Annotator "0.37;0.35"]
[PlyCount "91"]
[TimeControl "600+20"]
{Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-9900K CPU @ 3.60GHz 3600 MHz W=33.0 plies; 8,341kN/s;
731,556 TBAs; French Defense Powerbook 2012.ctg B=34.6 plies; 15,710kN/s; 549,
744 TBAs; French Defense Powerbook 2012.ctg} 1. e4 {B 0} e6 {B 0} 2. d4 {
0.37/34 25} d5 {B 0} 3. Nc3 {0.43/33 30} Bb4 {B 0} 4. e5 {0.35/31 16} c5 {B 0}
5. a3 {0.32/32 24} Bxc3+ {B 0} 6. bxc3 {0.22/34 25} Qa5 {B 0} 7. Bd2 {0.66/32
17} Qa4 {B 0} 8. Qb1 {0.52/33 35} c4 {B 0} 9. Be2 {0.70/34 22} Nc6 {B 0} 10.
Bh5 {0.79/39 77} Nge7 {0.35/33 36} 11. Ne2 {0.72/34 27} O-O {0.46/33 56 (Bd7)}
12. O-O {0.86/31 18} Nf5 {0.46/35 103 (Ng6)} 13. Bg4 {1.18/33 59} Nce7 {
0.46/34 28} 14. Re1 {0.97/32 31} Bd7 {0.56/35 112 (h6)} 15. Nf4 {1.51/32 26
(g3)} Qa5 {0.58/35 221 (Kh8)} 16. Nh5 {1.70/28 20} Kh8 {0.82/36 73} 17. Qd1 {
1.83/28 19 (Qc1)} Ba4 {0.76/35 90 (Rg8)} 18. Bxf5 {2.43/32 24 (Bh3)} Nxf5 {
1.14/32 17 (exf5)} 19. g4 {2.75/32 19} Ne7 {1.48/31 20} 20. Bg5 {3.01/32 38
(Re3)} Ng8 {1.03/31 19} 21. Qd2 {3.09/33 43 (Re3)} Qb5 {0.94/34 34} 22. Rab1 {
3.17/33 36 (f4)} Qe8 {1.44/32 37 (Qd7)} 23. Re3 {3.66/29 27 (Bh4)} f5 {1.97/34
58 (b5)} 24. exf6 {4.06/35 31} gxf6 {2.04/34 25} 25. Bf4 {4.18/35 27 (Bh4)} Qg6
{1.86/33 16} 26. f3 {4.47/35 55 (h3)} Rf7 {2.28/38 59 (b6)} 27. Rxe6 {4.86/31
21} Qxc2 {2.04/36 15 (Bxc2)} 28. Qxc2 {5.00/33 23} Bxc2 {2.42/37 16} 29. Rbe1 {
5.61/33 24} Bg6 {2.45/37 18 (Raf8)} 30. Nxf6 {6.37/33 22} Nxf6 {2.57/37 19} 31.
Be5 {6.23/32 26} Kg7 {2.73/39 44} 32. g5 {6.39/33 23 (Kf2)} Rd7 {3.19/36 45
(Kg8)} 33. Bxf6+ {7.17/31 25} Kf8 {3.35/34 19} 34. Kf2 {7.54/31 22} Re8 {
3.50/37 51} 35. Rxe8+ {7.45/31 34} Bxe8 {3.54/35 20} 36. Kg3 {7.57/31 35} Bg6 {
3.59/36 42} 37. Kf4 {7.92/32 33} Rc7 {3.76/37 41 (Bh5)} 38. h4 {8.51/31 28} Kf7
{3.59/36 20 (Bh5)} 39. Ke5 {10.23/30 25} Rc8 {4.01/35 20 (Kf8)} 40. Kxd5 {
11.65/31 33} Re8 {4.18/32 19} 41. Rxe8 {12.28/42 24 (Be5)} Kxe8 {5.64/33 21}
42. Kxc4 {12.88/38 22} Bh5 {6.28/34 20 (Bf7+)} 43. f4 {13.18/38 22} Kd7 {
6.88/34 20} 44. d5 {13.55/36 29} a5 {6.98/31 20 (Bf3)} 45. Kd4 {13.83/37 29} b5
{9.97/33 20 (Kd6)} 46. Ke5 {14.11/33 31 (Be5) adjud.} 1-0
[/pgn]
[pgn][Event "Stockfinn vs Fire rapid, Rapid 10.0min+"]
[Site "DESKTOP-IRD8JP2"]
[Date "2020.07.29"]
[Round "1"]
[White "SF+NNUE PO 270720 x64 avx2"]
[Black "Komodo 14 64-bit"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B07"]
[Annotator "0.37;0.52"]
[PlyCount "115"]
[TimeControl "600+20"]
{Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-9900K CPU @ 3.60GHz 3600 MHz W=33.9 plies; 6,048kN/s; 6,
082,954 TBAs; Noomen.ctg B=36.5 plies; 16,962kN/s; 9,842,736 TBAs; Noomen.ctg}
1. e4 {B 0 White last book move} d6 {B 0} 2. d4 {0.37/34 25} Nf6 {B 0} 3. Nc3 {
0.31/31 18} g6 {B 0} 4. Be3 {0.49/28 27} Bg7 {B 0} 5. Qd2 {0.76/27 14} c6 {B 0}
6. Bh6 {0.58/32 42} Bxh6 {B 0} 7. Qxh6 {0.63/34 24} Qa5 {B 0} 8. Bd3 {0.95/28
19} c5 {B 0} 9. d5 {1.20/29 19} Nbd7 {B 0 Black last book move} 10. O-O-O {
1.16/32 32} b5 {0.52/35 36 (Ng4)} 11. Bxb5 {1.09/38 59} Rb8 {0.67/37 35} 12.
Bxd7+ {1.01/36 47} Bxd7 {0.53/36 27 (Kxd7)} 13. Nge2 {0.90/33 43 (f3)} Bb5 {
0.83/35 37 (Ng4)} 14. Rhe1 {0.81/37 56} Bxe2 {0.70/37 31} 15. Rxe2 {0.76/36 16}
Qb4 {0.73/38 43} 16. Kd2 {0.80/35 20} Qc4 {0.74/37 56} 17. Rb1 {1.11/38 65}
Qd4+ {0.76/37 64} 18. Kc1 {1.11/40 25} g5 {0.73/37 36} 19. Qh3 {1.18/38 36} Nd7
{0.84/37 30} 20. Nd1 {1.00/40 39 (b3)} Qf6 {0.82/35 30 (h5)} 21. Qf5 {1.41/32
22 (b3)} Qh6 {0.95/35 31} 22. Re3 {1.53/34 21} Qxh2 {0.91/39 68} 23. Qxg5 {
1.57/36 24} Nf6 {0.96/38 29 (h6)} 24. Rh3 {1.85/36 22} Qg1 {0.88/38 35} 25. e5
{1.62/34 29} Rg8 {1.07/40 39} 26. Qf5 {1.80/35 28} dxe5 {1.00/39 34} 27. Qxe5 {
2.02/38 36} Nd7 {1.19/37 26} 28. Qe4 {1.99/38 84} Rb4 {1.26/39 58} 29. Qxh7 {
2.13/36 33} Rxg2 {1.00/38 53} 30. Rh1 {2.08/36 46} Rg7 {1.14/38 30} 31. Rxg1 {
2.01/34 28} Rxh7 {1.16/37 25} 32. Rg8+ {2.10/33 22} Nf8 {1.16/5 0} 33. b3 {
2.14/34 28} Rf4 {1.02/37 43 (Rd4)} 34. Rb2 {1.93/32 57 (c4)} Rh1 {1.11/41 80
(f5)} 35. c4 {1.97/31 15} f5 {1.18/39 52} 36. Rg7 {2.28/32 70} Re1 {1.11/37 24}
37. Rg3 {2.18/30 9} Kf7 {1.20/37 26} 38. Re3 {1.90/29 47 (Rd2)} Rxe3 {1.03/35
27} 39. fxe3 {2.14/27 20} Rh4 {1.10/38 34} 40. Rg2 {1.96/29 46 (Rf2)} Nd7 {
1.19/36 35 (Kf6)} 41. Nf2 {2.45/27 10} Ne5 {0.90/37 23} 42. Kb2 {2.73/27 17} e6
{1.57/37 94 (Rh6)} 43. dxe6+ {3.07/25 10} Kxe6 {1.61/38 32} 44. Ka3 {3.89/29 30
} Rh7 {1.81/40 96 (Kd6)} 45. Ka4 {4.40/33 10} Kd6 {2.01/38 77 (Rb7)} 46. Nd1 {
4.85/30 20} Rb7 {1.99/36 13} 47. Nc3 {5.02/35 10} Rb4+ {2.06/36 14} 48. Ka3 {
5.56/36 15} Rb6 {2.22/36 14} 49. Rd2+ {5.79/35 16} Ke6 {2.12/38 25} 50. e4 {
6.02/35 13} Ra6+ {2.09/36 16 (fxe4)} 51. Kb2 {6.22/35 15} fxe4 {2.13/39 39} 52.
Nxe4 {6.51/36 15} Rc6 {2.21/35 14} 53. Rd8 {7.32/37 17 (Rd5)} Ng6 {2.21/36 27
(Kf5)} 54. Rd5 {8.45/36 13} Nf4 {2.34/37 20} 55. Rg5 {8.80/38 14} Nd3+ {
2.45/37 13} 56. Kc3 {9.02/40 15 (Kc2)} Ne5 {2.52/36 15} 57. Rh5 {9.21/40 15}
Rc7 {2.80/35 17} 58. Kb2 {9.30/44 15 (Kc2) adjud.} 1-0
[/pgn]
[pgn][Event "Stockfinn vs Fire rapid, Rapid 10.0min+"]
[Site "DESKTOP-IRD8JP2"]
[Date "2020.07.27"]
[Round "1"]
[White "SF+NNUE AIO 270720 x64 avx2"]
[Black "Deep Shredder 13 x64"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C96"]
[Annotator "0.11;0.21"]
[PlyCount "105"]
[TimeControl "600+20"]
{Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-9900K CPU @ 3.60GHz 3600 MHz W=63.9 plies; 8,430kN/s;
315,785 TBAs; Noomen.ctg B=26.4 plies; 16,303kN/s; Noomen.ctg} 1. e4 {B 0} e5 {
B 0} 2. Nf3 {B 0} Nc6 {B 0} 3. Bb5 {B 0} a6 {B 0} 4. Ba4 {B 0} Nf6 {B 0 Both
last book move} 5. O-O {0.11/29 31} Be7 {0.21/29 30} 6. Re1 {0.22/31 22 (Bxc6)}
b5 {0.13/29 35} 7. Bb3 {0.22/32 26} d6 {0.10/30 31 (0-0)} 8. c3 {0.21/34 19}
O-O {0.10/30 50} 9. h3 {0.14/36 22} Na5 {0.14/29 47} 10. Bc2 {0.13/35 18} c5 {
0.15/29 23} 11. d4 {0.14/35 33} exd4 {0.23/29 71 (Qc7)} 12. cxd4 {0.25/31 19}
Re8 {0.20/29 37 (cxd4)} 13. Nc3 {0.29/35 65 (Bf4)} Bb7 {0.21/31 47 (cxd4)} 14.
d5 {0.34/29 17 (b3)} Nd7 {0.23/31 50} 15. b3 {0.31/33 27} Bf6 {0.24/30 40} 16.
Bb2 {0.27/35 32} Ne5 {0.28/31 23 (Bc8)} 17. Nxe5 {0.30/68 134} Bxe5 {0.27/31 46
} 18. Rb1 {0.29/36 20} Bc8 {0.32/31 31} 19. Ne2 {0.33/34 23} Bxb2 {0.33/31 73
(Bd7)} 20. Rxb2 {0.38/35 35} Qf6 {0.35/31 88 (Bd7)} 21. Rb1 {0.33/33 20} Bd7 {
0.32/31 23 (Nb7)} 22. f4 {0.46/34 88 (Qd2)} b4 {0.35/29 97 (Nb7)} 23. Qd2 {
0.51/34 39} Nb7 {0.38/28 41} 24. Ng3 {0.58/31 39} Bb5 {0.51/30 65 (Qh6)} 25.
Rbd1 {0.75/31 30} g6 {0.60/30 18} 26. Qe3 {0.71/31 28} Qg7 {0.67/30 40 (Qb2)}
27. e5 {0.86/30 25} f5 {0.67/29 14 (Rf8)} 28. Bxf5 {1.36/32 50 (Nf1)} gxf5 {
0.63/31 31} 29. Nxf5 {1.26/30 15} Qg6 {0.87/31 43} 30. g4 {1.12/30 22} h5 {
0.94/31 35 (a5)} 31. Rd2 {1.89/27 24 (Qe4)} Rab8 {1.94/25 30 (h4)} 32. e6 {
2.49/26 46 (Nh4)} Rbc8 {2.31/28 15 (h4)} 33. Ng3 {5.22/26 20 (Rg2)} Qh6 {
4.72/27 28} 34. g5 {5.91/27 27} Qh8 {6.28/28 26} 35. f5 {6.86/28 33} Rf8 {
6.82/28 24 (Qe5)} 36. f6 {9.68/29 23 (e7)} Qh7 {10.32/29 22} 37. f7+ {10.34/32
28} Kh8 {11.51/30 22} 38. Rf2 {10.79/32 23 (Qf4)} Nd8 {12.24/29 20} 39. Rf6 {
11.29/36 30 (Qf4)} Bd3 {13.20/26 21 (Nxf7)} 40. Rh6 {24.14/36 20} Nxf7 {
15.62/26 15} 41. exf7 {68.72/40 22} Bg6 {14.22/27 16 (Rxf7)} 42. Rf1 {#12/71
20 (Rxh7+)} Rc7 {#12/35 13} 43. Qe6 {#11/77 20} Qxh6 {#11/22 0} 44. gxh6 {
#10/86 21} Kh7 {#10/20 0} 45. Ne4 {#9/90 23} Rfxf7 {#9/18 0} 46. Ng5+ {#8/116
19} Kxh6 {#8/20 0} 47. Nxf7+ {#7/180 19 (Rxf7)} Kh7 {#9/18 0} 48. Ng5+ {
#6/245 17} Kh6 {#7/16 0} 49. h4 {#5/245 2 (Qxd6)} Kg7 {#5/13 0 (Rg7)} 50. Qf6+
{#4/245 0} Kh6 {#4/8 0} 51. Qf8+ {#3/245 0 (Qh8+)} Rg7 {#4/8 0} 52. Ne6 {
#2/245 0 (Qh8+)} Kh7 {#1/2 0} 53. Qxg7# {#1/245 0} 1-0
[/pgn]
-
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:25 am
- Full name: Prasanna Bandihole
Re: NNUE at LTC
NNUE played with 1 book move. (It was on its own after 1st move)
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- Posts: 3657
- Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:41 am
- Location: hungary
Re: NNUE at LTC
Longer TC give more help to the slower engine. It is obvious from Stockfish(dev) - StockfishNNUE games also.
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- Posts: 4190
- Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:47 am
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- Posts: 95
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:10 am
- Location: Lamar, Colorado, USA
Re: NNUE at LTC
NNUE and regular stockfish are the same in correspondence time control or analysis
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- Posts: 4556
- Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:30 am
Re: NNUE at LTC
I find them completely different, worlds apart. You can always guide the position to places where NNUE outperforms regular Stockfish (just give bonuses for positions where they disagree, as the disagreement grows you reach positions where regular Stockfish's eval isn't good at all.)Gino Figlio wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:26 am NNUE and regular stockfish are the same in correspondence time control or analysis
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- Posts: 919
- Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 8:28 am
Re: NNUE at LTC
Yes, but does it play stronger is the question. Beauty is very subjective. ELO isn't.
NNUE has been around long enough for this to be determined. A single CC game can last 2 years or more. NNUE has been out for a few weeks. Thousands of games or even hundreds of thousands of CC time control games would need to be played, depending on the rating difference, before this could be accurately determined. So, I think your claims are a bit premature.Gino Figlio wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:26 am NNUE and regular stockfish are the same in correspondence time control or analysis
Ovyron wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:17 amI find them completely different, worlds apart. You can always guide the position to places where NNUE outperforms regular Stockfish (just give bonuses for positions where they disagree, as the disagreement grows you reach positions where regular Stockfish's eval isn't good at all.)Gino Figlio wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:26 am NNUE and regular stockfish are the same in correspondence time control or analysis
In general I would agree. The question is how much ELO does this translate to. I think it's yet to be determined.
Regards,
Zenmastur
Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you.....Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.