FGRL rating list - 60 sec + 0.6 sec
Dragon by Komodo Chess 1.0 (New: 3462)
Komodo 14.1 MCTS (+-0 to Komodo 14 MCTS)
SlowChess Blitz Classic 2.4 (-8 to SlowChess Blitz Classic 2.3)
http://www.fastgm.de
FGRL, 60 sec + 0.6 sec - 2. Dragon by Komodo Chess 1.0, 7. Komodo 14.1 MCTS, 10. SlowChess Blitz Classic 2.4
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Re: FGRL, 60 sec + 0.6 sec - 2. Dragon by Komodo Chess 1.0, 7. Komodo 14.1 MCTS, 10. SlowChess Blitz Classic 2.4
Although the gain for Dragon over K14.1 in this list is 142 elo points, which sounds good, three other testers are confirming gains of around 200 elo in blitz. I note that Dragon scored 93.25% on this list, whereas other tests are run against much stronger engines. Apparently Dragon is relatively better against strong opposition than it is at winning every game from weak opposition, though I don't know why. I look forward to the 16 core rating for Dragon, which I expect to be much closer to SF12 since SF12 only scored 57.5% on that list, so opposition strength shouldn't be a problem. In my opinion pairing opponents more than 300 elo or so apart is not a good way to rate them, although I understand the desire for consistency.fastgm wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:36 pm FGRL rating list - 60 sec + 0.6 sec
Dragon by Komodo Chess 1.0 (New: 3462)
Komodo 14.1 MCTS (+-0 to Komodo 14 MCTS)
SlowChess Blitz Classic 2.4 (-8 to SlowChess Blitz Classic 2.3)
http://www.fastgm.de
Komodo rules!
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Re: FGRL, 60 sec + 0.6 sec - 2. Dragon by Komodo Chess 1.0, 7. Komodo 14.1 MCTS, 10. SlowChess Blitz Classic 2.4
Just hold out until FastGM does his higher TC and core count tests. Eventually he will do 16x cores vs only the top 10 or so engines. That will be good data, not swayed by one's ability to crush -1000 elo engines.lkaufman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:22 pmAlthough the gain for Dragon over K14.1 in this list is 142 elo points, which sounds good, three other testers are confirming gains of around 200 elo in blitz. I note that Dragon scored 93.25% on this list, whereas other tests are run against much stronger engines. Apparently Dragon is relatively better against strong opposition than it is at winning every game from weak opposition, though I don't know why. I look forward to the 16 core rating for Dragon, which I expect to be much closer to SF12 since SF12 only scored 57.5% on that list, so opposition strength shouldn't be a problem. In my opinion pairing opponents more than 300 elo or so apart is not a good way to rate them, although I understand the desire for consistency.fastgm wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:36 pm FGRL rating list - 60 sec + 0.6 sec
Dragon by Komodo Chess 1.0 (New: 3462)
Komodo 14.1 MCTS (+-0 to Komodo 14 MCTS)
SlowChess Blitz Classic 2.4 (-8 to SlowChess Blitz Classic 2.3)
http://www.fastgm.de
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Re: FGRL, 60 sec + 0.6 sec - 2. Dragon by Komodo Chess 1.0, 7. Komodo 14.1 MCTS, 10. SlowChess Blitz Classic 2.4
Only the 16 core system of FastGM has AVX2.lkaufman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:22 pmAlthough the gain for Dragon over K14.1 in this list is 142 elo points, which sounds good, three other testers are confirming gains of around 200 elo in blitz. I note that Dragon scored 93.25% on this list, whereas other tests are run against much stronger engines. Apparently Dragon is relatively better against strong opposition than it is at winning every game from weak opposition, though I don't know why. I look forward to the 16 core rating for Dragon, which I expect to be much closer to SF12 since SF12 only scored 57.5% on that list, so opposition strength shouldn't be a problem. In my opinion pairing opponents more than 300 elo or so apart is not a good way to rate them, although I understand the desire for consistency.fastgm wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:36 pm FGRL rating list - 60 sec + 0.6 sec
Dragon by Komodo Chess 1.0 (New: 3462)
Komodo 14.1 MCTS (+-0 to Komodo 14 MCTS)
SlowChess Blitz Classic 2.4 (-8 to SlowChess Blitz Classic 2.3)
http://www.fastgm.de
So the perceived lack of improvement is likely the result of a few missing instruction sets.
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Re: FGRL, 60 sec + 0.6 sec - 2. Dragon by Komodo Chess 1.0, 7. Komodo 14.1 MCTS, 10. SlowChess Blitz Classic 2.4
Here are the results of the Top 20 engines.
The gain for Dragon over Komodo 14.1 against stronger engines is 10 elo points more, +152.
The gain for Dragon over Komodo 14.1 against stronger engines is 10 elo points more, +152.
Code: Select all
# Engine : Elo Error Games Points (%) W D L D(%) CFS
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1 Stockfish 12 : 3550 10 4750 4075.5 85.80 3456 1239 55 26.08 100
2 Dragon by Komodo Chess 1.0 : 3482 9 4750 3817.5 80.37 3058 1519 173 31.98 100
3 ShashChess 12.1.3 : 3412 8 4750 3500.0 73.68 2513 1974 263 41.56 100
4 Houdini 6 : 3332 7 4750 3069.0 64.61 2038 2062 650 43.41 63
5 Komodo 14.1 : 3330 7 4750 3058.5 64.39 1936 2245 569 47.26 100
6 Ethereal 12.75 : 3283 7 4750 2782.0 58.57 1649 2266 835 47.71 100
7 Komodo 14.1 MCTS : 3225 6 4750 2418.0 50.91 1266 2304 1180 48.51 95
8 Nemorino 6.00 : 3217 7 4750 2367.5 49.84 1264 2207 1279 46.46 100
9 Fire 7.1 : 3200 7 4750 2262.0 47.62 1073 2378 1299 50.06 53
10 Xiphos 0.6 : 3200 7 4750 2259.5 47.57 1081 2357 1312 49.62 67
11 SlowChess Blitz Classic 2.4 : 3197 7 4750 2245.5 47.27 1127 2237 1386 47.09 100
12 Igel 2.8.0 NNUE : 3169 7 4750 2067.0 43.52 1002 2130 1618 44.84 100
13 RofChade 2.3 : 3150 7 4750 1950.5 41.06 842 2217 1691 46.67 100
14 Schooner 2.2 : 3115 7 4750 1732.0 36.46 630 2204 1916 46.40 76
15 Deep Shredder 13 : 3111 7 4750 1708.5 35.97 651 2115 1984 44.53 72
16 Laser 1.7 : 3108 7 4750 1690.5 35.59 661 2059 2030 43.35 92
17 Defenchess 2.2 : 3101 7 4750 1648.5 34.71 627 2043 2080 43.01 79
18 RubiChess 1.8 : 3097 7 4750 1624.0 34.19 630 1988 2132 41.85 51
19 Booot 6.4 : 3096 7 4750 1623.5 34.18 611 2025 2114 42.63 77
20 Fritz 17 : 3093 7 4750 1600.5 33.69 613 1975 2162 41.58 ---
White advantage = 35.74 +/- 1.19
Draw rate (equal opponents) = 55.44 % +/- 0.27
Games : 47.500 (finished)
White Wins : 15.313 (32.2 %)
Black Wins : 11.415 (24.0 %)
Draws : 20.772 (43.7 %)
White Score : 54.1 %
Black Score : 45.9 %
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Re: FGRL, 60 sec + 0.6 sec - 2. Dragon by Komodo Chess 1.0, 7. Komodo 14.1 MCTS, 10. SlowChess Blitz Classic 2.4
I didn't know that these games were run on a system without AVX2. That is a very big deal in Dragon, so much of the difference between the +152 elo reported when considering just the top 20 engines and the roughly +200 reported by three other testers is due to AVX2, while the rest is likely due to a much narrower range of elo ratings in the opposing engines.Raphexon wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:27 amOnly the 16 core system of FastGM has AVX2.lkaufman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:22 pmAlthough the gain for Dragon over K14.1 in this list is 142 elo points, which sounds good, three other testers are confirming gains of around 200 elo in blitz. I note that Dragon scored 93.25% on this list, whereas other tests are run against much stronger engines. Apparently Dragon is relatively better against strong opposition than it is at winning every game from weak opposition, though I don't know why. I look forward to the 16 core rating for Dragon, which I expect to be much closer to SF12 since SF12 only scored 57.5% on that list, so opposition strength shouldn't be a problem. In my opinion pairing opponents more than 300 elo or so apart is not a good way to rate them, although I understand the desire for consistency.fastgm wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:36 pm FGRL rating list - 60 sec + 0.6 sec
Dragon by Komodo Chess 1.0 (New: 3462)
Komodo 14.1 MCTS (+-0 to Komodo 14 MCTS)
SlowChess Blitz Classic 2.4 (-8 to SlowChess Blitz Classic 2.3)
http://www.fastgm.de
So the perceived lack of improvement is likely the result of a few missing instruction sets.
Komodo rules!
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Re: FGRL, 60 sec + 0.6 sec - 2. Dragon by Komodo Chess 1.0, 7. Komodo 14.1 MCTS, 10. SlowChess Blitz Classic 2.4
Is this AVX2 thing only Ryzen? In my Intel tests bmi has been always the fastest version of SF NNUE!
Jouni
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Re: FGRL, 60 sec + 0.6 sec - 2. Dragon by Komodo Chess 1.0, 7. Komodo 14.1 MCTS, 10. SlowChess Blitz Classic 2.4
Every CPU that supports BMI2 supports AVX2. (except for maybe a few weird chips)
BMI2 compiles are compiled with the assumption that the CPU will also be able to utilize AVX2 in mind. So if you're using a BMI2 compile, you're also using the AVX2 instruction set.
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Re: FGRL, 60 sec + 0.6 sec - 2. Dragon by Komodo Chess 1.0, 7. Komodo 14.1 MCTS, 10. SlowChess Blitz Classic 2.4
The result with Slow 2.4 slightly below 2.3 and 2.2 does come as a surprise even knowing the gains might not show up so much against weaker opponents. In SPCC and in the CEGT forum I see a 20+ elo gain for 2.4 vs 2.3, and versus the older 2.2 I got +42 elo standard, +51 FRC in my own testing. Not having AVX2 should only matter slightly since it's just endgame nets will be about 30% slower, which even without AVX2 was still stronger than no nets. Will see how it does in the other tests. (Just in case : Slow64-noAvx.exe should be the one to use, the Slow64-noPop.exe is like 6-8% slower overall for me, and the Slow64.exe I assume would crash. Also with 2.4 it expects the data files in the same dir as the exe now but the zip has been arranged this way so still just a straight extract.)
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Re: FGRL, 60 sec + 0.6 sec - 2. Dragon by Komodo Chess 1.0, 7. Komodo 14.1 MCTS, 10. SlowChess Blitz Classic 2.4
We weren't able to prove that making a bmi version gave any extra speed beyond the avx2 version for Dragon, regardless of the hardware, so we didn't make a special bmi version. Of course that could change in the future.
Komodo rules!