How many of you believe that Stockfish 12 or Komodo can give a rook Odds to a 1450 engine ?

[Chessqueen]

LK

So now it's valid to compare SF 13 and Dragon in terms of which can give knight odds to some weaker but still very strong (in human terms) engine.

yep, and apparently it's (still?) hard for Dragon (or SFnnue) to play
with knight odds against the weaker engine, even with the c7 pawn less
(probably due to a method of exchanging as much as possible and
winning the endgame). Maybe it would be more equal with another
pawn removed, the f7 pawn, or otherwise two pawns, maybe c7
and b7. If this wouldn''t work, an exchange handicap plus a pawn
handicap may be an idea, so e.g Dragon without a1 rook,
Stash without b8 or c8, and Dragon also without b2 or c2.
As for rating ratio, i suppose it's somewhere between 1.1 and 1.2 ,
(for Stash more near 1.2 i suppose).

You missed my post a few days ago where Komodo version 13.3 NOT the latest Dragon which is two newer version beat Stash 27.0, but against a GM Human like Nakamura rated around 3100 in Blitz, Dragon needs to play Bullets games since in time control of 5'+2" Naka could possibly beat Dragon with a Knight Odds.

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2021.02.17"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Komodo-13.3-64bit"]
[Black "Stash-27.0-windows-x86_64"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "3000"]
[Time "09:14:06"]
[WhiteElo "3480"]
[TimeControl "600+1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/P1PP1PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "64"]


1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Be3 Nc6 4. Bb5 Nf6 5. O-O Bd7 6. c4 dxc4 7. Bxc4 a6
8. Nc3 Bb4 9. Bd2 O-O 10. a3 Bd6 11. Bg5 h6 12. Bh4 Na5 13. Bd3 g5 14. Nxg5
hxg5 15. Bxg5 Bc6 16. d5 exd5 17. Qf3 d4 18. Ne4 Bxe4 19. Bxe4 Be7 20. Rfe1
Qd6 21. Bf5 Nc6 22. Bf4 Qc5 23. Qg3+ Kh8 24. Qh4+ Kg8 25. Qg5+ Kh8 26. Rad1
Rae8 27. Qh4+ Kg8 28. Qg3+ Kh8 29. Qh3+ Kg8 30. Rd3 Qxf5 31. Qxf5 Nh7 32.
Re4 Bh4 {Black resigns} *[/pgn]

The key point seems to be that knight odds should be thought of as four pawn odds, roughly double the two pawn handicap. Even knight for pawn is a three pawn handicap. Also based on some research I did a while ago, an engine rated CCRL blitz 3000 would probably score more than 95% against Nakamura in blitz or even in fast Rapid; I think I concluded that Nakamura would only get something like 2200 or so if he played under CCRL blitz conditions with the engines. It is not reasonable to expect any engine to give knight odds or even knight for pawn to a player 800 elo stronger than Nakamura in blitz.

Thanks for the explanation, Now I have a question if you play versus Dragon Knight Odds at 5'+1" and lose or draw, then we can assume that GM Nakamura at Bullet chess 1 minutes can probably draw against Dragon. Can you please play a few games at 5'+1" Knight Odds and post it here

[Chessqueen]

LK

So now it's valid to compare SF 13 and Dragon in terms of which can give knight odds to some weaker but still very strong (in human terms) engine.

yep, and apparently it's (still?) hard for Dragon (or SFnnue) to play
with knight odds against the weaker engine, even with the c7 pawn less
(probably due to a method of exchanging as much as possible and
winning the endgame). Maybe it would be more equal with another
pawn removed, the f7 pawn, or otherwise two pawns, maybe c7
and b7. If this wouldn''t work, an exchange handicap plus a pawn
handicap may be an idea, so e.g Dragon without a1 rook,
Stash without b8 or c8, and Dragon also without b2 or c2.
As for rating ratio, i suppose it's somewhere between 1.1 and 1.2 ,
(for Stash more near 1.2 i suppose).

You missed my post a few days ago where Komodo version 13.3 NOT the latest Dragon which is two newer version beat Stash 27.0, but against a GM Human like Nakamura rated around 3100 in Blitz, Dragon needs to play Bullets games since in time control of 5'+2" Naka could possibly beat Dragon with a Knight Odds.

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2021.02.17"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Komodo-13.3-64bit"]
[Black "Stash-27.0-windows-x86_64"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "3000"]
[Time "09:14:06"]
[WhiteElo "3480"]
[TimeControl "600+1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/P1PP1PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "64"]


1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Be3 Nc6 4. Bb5 Nf6 5. O-O Bd7 6. c4 dxc4 7. Bxc4 a6
8. Nc3 Bb4 9. Bd2 O-O 10. a3 Bd6 11. Bg5 h6 12. Bh4 Na5 13. Bd3 g5 14. Nxg5
hxg5 15. Bxg5 Bc6 16. d5 exd5 17. Qf3 d4 18. Ne4 Bxe4 19. Bxe4 Be7 20. Rfe1
Qd6 21. Bf5 Nc6 22. Bf4 Qc5 23. Qg3+ Kh8 24. Qh4+ Kg8 25. Qg5+ Kh8 26. Rad1
Rae8 27. Qh4+ Kg8 28. Qg3+ Kh8 29. Qh3+ Kg8 30. Rd3 Qxf5 31. Qxf5 Nh7 32.
Re4 Bh4 {Black resigns} *[/pgn]

The key point seems to be that knight odds should be thought of as four pawn odds, roughly double the two pawn handicap. Even knight for pawn is a three pawn handicap. Also based on some research I did a while ago, an engine rated CCRL blitz 3000 would probably score more than 95% against Nakamura in blitz or even in fast Rapid; I think I concluded that Nakamura would only get something like 2200 or so if he played under CCRL blitz conditions with the engines. It is not reasonable to expect any engine to give knight odds or even knight for pawn to a player 800 elo stronger than Nakamura in blitz.

Thanks for the explanation, Now I have a question if you play versus Dragon Knight Odds at 5'+1" and lose or draw, then we can assume that GM Nakamura at Bullet chess 1 minutes can probably draw against Dragon. Can you please play a few games at 5'+1" Knight Odds and post it here

Even at TC 2'+1" I believe that Komodo can still beat GM Nakamura. I Just found these games where Stockfish back in 2015 gave GM Wesley So a Knight Odds in Bullet and it beat him the 1st 2 games and it only drew the 3rd game, but of course GM Nakamura is much better than GM SO at Bullet

[lkaufman]

LK

So now it's valid to compare SF 13 and Dragon in terms of which can give knight odds to some weaker but still very strong (in human terms) engine.

yep, and apparently it's (still?) hard for Dragon (or SFnnue) to play
with knight odds against the weaker engine, even with the c7 pawn less
(probably due to a method of exchanging as much as possible and
winning the endgame). Maybe it would be more equal with another
pawn removed, the f7 pawn, or otherwise two pawns, maybe c7
and b7. If this wouldn''t work, an exchange handicap plus a pawn
handicap may be an idea, so e.g Dragon without a1 rook,
Stash without b8 or c8, and Dragon also without b2 or c2.
As for rating ratio, i suppose it's somewhere between 1.1 and 1.2 ,
(for Stash more near 1.2 i suppose).

You missed my post a few days ago where Komodo version 13.3 NOT the latest Dragon which is two newer version beat Stash 27.0, but against a GM Human like Nakamura rated around 3100 in Blitz, Dragon needs to play Bullets games since in time control of 5'+2" Naka could possibly beat Dragon with a Knight Odds.

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2021.02.17"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Komodo-13.3-64bit"]
[Black "Stash-27.0-windows-x86_64"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "3000"]
[Time "09:14:06"]
[WhiteElo "3480"]
[TimeControl "600+1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/P1PP1PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "64"]


1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Be3 Nc6 4. Bb5 Nf6 5. O-O Bd7 6. c4 dxc4 7. Bxc4 a6
8. Nc3 Bb4 9. Bd2 O-O 10. a3 Bd6 11. Bg5 h6 12. Bh4 Na5 13. Bd3 g5 14. Nxg5
hxg5 15. Bxg5 Bc6 16. d5 exd5 17. Qf3 d4 18. Ne4 Bxe4 19. Bxe4 Be7 20. Rfe1
Qd6 21. Bf5 Nc6 22. Bf4 Qc5 23. Qg3+ Kh8 24. Qh4+ Kg8 25. Qg5+ Kh8 26. Rad1
Rae8 27. Qh4+ Kg8 28. Qg3+ Kh8 29. Qh3+ Kg8 30. Rd3 Qxf5 31. Qxf5 Nh7 32.
Re4 Bh4 {Black resigns} *[/pgn]

The key point seems to be that knight odds should be thought of as four pawn odds, roughly double the two pawn handicap. Even knight for pawn is a three pawn handicap. Also based on some research I did a while ago, an engine rated CCRL blitz 3000 would probably score more than 95% against Nakamura in blitz or even in fast Rapid; I think I concluded that Nakamura would only get something like 2200 or so if he played under CCRL blitz conditions with the engines. It is not reasonable to expect any engine to give knight odds or even knight for pawn to a player 800 elo stronger than Nakamura in blitz.

Thanks for the explanation, Now I have a question if you play versus Dragon Knight Odds at 5'+1" and lose or draw, then we can assume that GM Nakamura at Bullet chess 1 minutes can probably draw against Dragon. Can you please play a few games at 5'+1" Knight Odds and post it here

I've played enough blitz at knight odds with Dragon to say that 5' + 1" is just too fast for me. I might get some draws, but rarely a win. At 5' +5" I'm still the underdog, at 10' + 5" it's quite balanced. At age 73 my poor vision, reaction time, and mouse skills aren't compatible with a one second increment. With one minute and no increment Naka can get draws with Dragon at knight odds if that is his goal because Dragon will generally allow repetition when a piece down (regardless of Contempt setting), but I think he would generally lose on time before actually checkmating Dragon. But with 1' +1" he should gave good chances to win a match.

[lkaufman]

LK

So now it's valid to compare SF 13 and Dragon in terms of which can give knight odds to some weaker but still very strong (in human terms) engine.

yep, and apparently it's (still?) hard for Dragon (or SFnnue) to play
with knight odds against the weaker engine, even with the c7 pawn less
(probably due to a method of exchanging as much as possible and
winning the endgame). Maybe it would be more equal with another
pawn removed, the f7 pawn, or otherwise two pawns, maybe c7
and b7. If this wouldn''t work, an exchange handicap plus a pawn
handicap may be an idea, so e.g Dragon without a1 rook,
Stash without b8 or c8, and Dragon also without b2 or c2.
As for rating ratio, i suppose it's somewhere between 1.1 and 1.2 ,
(for Stash more near 1.2 i suppose).

You missed my post a few days ago where Komodo version 13.3 NOT the latest Dragon which is two newer version beat Stash 27.0, but against a GM Human like Nakamura rated around 3100 in Blitz, Dragon needs to play Bullets games since in time control of 5'+2" Naka could possibly beat Dragon with a Knight Odds.

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2021.02.17"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Komodo-13.3-64bit"]
[Black "Stash-27.0-windows-x86_64"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "3000"]
[Time "09:14:06"]
[WhiteElo "3480"]
[TimeControl "600+1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/P1PP1PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "64"]


1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Be3 Nc6 4. Bb5 Nf6 5. O-O Bd7 6. c4 dxc4 7. Bxc4 a6
8. Nc3 Bb4 9. Bd2 O-O 10. a3 Bd6 11. Bg5 h6 12. Bh4 Na5 13. Bd3 g5 14. Nxg5
hxg5 15. Bxg5 Bc6 16. d5 exd5 17. Qf3 d4 18. Ne4 Bxe4 19. Bxe4 Be7 20. Rfe1
Qd6 21. Bf5 Nc6 22. Bf4 Qc5 23. Qg3+ Kh8 24. Qh4+ Kg8 25. Qg5+ Kh8 26. Rad1
Rae8 27. Qh4+ Kg8 28. Qg3+ Kh8 29. Qh3+ Kg8 30. Rd3 Qxf5 31. Qxf5 Nh7 32.
Re4 Bh4 {Black resigns} *[/pgn]

The key point seems to be that knight odds should be thought of as four pawn odds, roughly double the two pawn handicap. Even knight for pawn is a three pawn handicap. Also based on some research I did a while ago, an engine rated CCRL blitz 3000 would probably score more than 95% against Nakamura in blitz or even in fast Rapid; I think I concluded that Nakamura would only get something like 2200 or so if he played under CCRL blitz conditions with the engines. It is not reasonable to expect any engine to give knight odds or even knight for pawn to a player 800 elo stronger than Nakamura in blitz.

Thanks for the explanation, Now I have a question if you play versus Dragon Knight Odds at 5'+1" and lose or draw, then we can assume that GM Nakamura at Bullet chess 1 minutes can probably draw against Dragon. Can you please play a few games at 5'+1" Knight Odds and post it here

Even at TC 2'+1" I believe that Komodo can still beat GM Nakamura. I Just found these games where Stockfish back in 2015 gave GM Wesley So a Knight Odds in Bullet and it beat him the 1st 2 games and it only drew the 3rd game, but of course GM Nakamura is much better than GM SO at Bullet

The difference between one minute with no inc and one (or even two) minutes with one second inc is day and night.

[Chessqueen]

LK

So now it's valid to compare SF 13 and Dragon in terms of which can give knight odds to some weaker but still very strong (in human terms) engine.

yep, and apparently it's (still?) hard for Dragon (or SFnnue) to play
with knight odds against the weaker engine, even with the c7 pawn less
(probably due to a method of exchanging as much as possible and
winning the endgame). Maybe it would be more equal with another
pawn removed, the f7 pawn, or otherwise two pawns, maybe c7
and b7. If this wouldn''t work, an exchange handicap plus a pawn
handicap may be an idea, so e.g Dragon without a1 rook,
Stash without b8 or c8, and Dragon also without b2 or c2.
As for rating ratio, i suppose it's somewhere between 1.1 and 1.2 ,
(for Stash more near 1.2 i suppose).

You missed my post a few days ago where Komodo version 13.3 NOT the latest Dragon which is two newer version beat Stash 27.0, but against a GM Human like Nakamura rated around 3100 in Blitz, Dragon needs to play Bullets games since in time control of 5'+2" Naka could possibly beat Dragon with a Knight Odds.

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Site "DESKTOP-OFQ3C0P"]
[Date "2021.02.17"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Komodo-13.3-64bit"]
[Black "Stash-27.0-windows-x86_64"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "3000"]
[Time "09:14:06"]
[WhiteElo "3480"]
[TimeControl "600+1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/P1PP1PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "64"]


1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Be3 Nc6 4. Bb5 Nf6 5. O-O Bd7 6. c4 dxc4 7. Bxc4 a6
8. Nc3 Bb4 9. Bd2 O-O 10. a3 Bd6 11. Bg5 h6 12. Bh4 Na5 13. Bd3 g5 14. Nxg5
hxg5 15. Bxg5 Bc6 16. d5 exd5 17. Qf3 d4 18. Ne4 Bxe4 19. Bxe4 Be7 20. Rfe1
Qd6 21. Bf5 Nc6 22. Bf4 Qc5 23. Qg3+ Kh8 24. Qh4+ Kg8 25. Qg5+ Kh8 26. Rad1
Rae8 27. Qh4+ Kg8 28. Qg3+ Kh8 29. Qh3+ Kg8 30. Rd3 Qxf5 31. Qxf5 Nh7 32.
Re4 Bh4 {Black resigns} *[/pgn]

The key point seems to be that knight odds should be thought of as four pawn odds, roughly double the two pawn handicap. Even knight for pawn is a three pawn handicap. Also based on some research I did a while ago, an engine rated CCRL blitz 3000 would probably score more than 95% against Nakamura in blitz or even in fast Rapid; I think I concluded that Nakamura would only get something like 2200 or so if he played under CCRL blitz conditions with the engines. It is not reasonable to expect any engine to give knight odds or even knight for pawn to a player 800 elo stronger than Nakamura in blitz.

Thanks for the explanation, Now I have a question if you play versus Dragon Knight Odds at 5'+1" and lose or draw, then we can assume that GM Nakamura at Bullet chess 1 minute can probably draw against Dragon. Can you please play a few games at 5'+1" Knight Odds and post it here

Even at TC 2'+1" I believe that Komodo can still beat GM Nakamura. I Just found these games where Stockfish back in 2015 gave GM Wesley So a Knight Odds in Bullet and it beat him the 1st 2 games and it only drew the 3rd game, but of course GM Nakamura is much better than GM SO at Bullet

The difference between one minute with no inc and one (or even two) minutes with one second inc is day and night.

Yes indeed, sorry meant to write since Stockfish played GM So back in 2015 at Bullet chess nowadays 2021 Dragon even at 2 minutes without inc should draw versus Nakamura at Knight Odds

[Chessqueen]

3100 blitz for a human on some online site is not stronger than a 3000 CCRL blitz engine just because the absolute number is higher.

The absolute numbers from different rating systems with different player pools are not directly comparable.

Top humans like Naka or MVL would likely lose by very large margins in blitz to most engines that are around 3000 CCRL blitz; their high chess.com ratings would not save them.

Stash 27.0 is still much weaker than Komodo, so I'm sure it will lose games even with some large-ish odds.

My only point was that Stash 27.0 performing better than MVL at some chess task isn't all that surprising (mostly responding to the "WOW" in your post about that).

Cheers!

Back in 2018 GM Nakamura played a few Odds versus Komodo version 13.3 and I believe that it is stronger than Stash 27.0 without Odds (Komodo 13.3 giving Odds is stronger than Stash 27.0 with all its pieces In other words Komodo 13.3 can beat Stash 27.0 with the same Odds that it gave GM Nakamura). Click where the letter H for GM Hikaru is located and you will see that it is playing at 2960+ and this was the results ==>

[Chessqueen]

3100 blitz for a human on some online site is not stronger than a 3000 CCRL blitz engine just because the absolute number is higher.

The absolute numbers from different rating systems with different player pools are not directly comparable.

Top humans like Naka or MVL would likely lose by very large margins in blitz to most engines that are around 3000 CCRL blitz; their high chess.com ratings would not save them.

Stash 27.0 is still much weaker than Komodo, so I'm sure it will lose games even with some large-ish odds.

Cheers!

Back in 2018 GM Nakamura played a few Odds versus Komodo version 13.3 and I believe that it is stronger than Stash 27.0 without Odds (Komodo 13.3 giving Odds is stronger than Stash 27.0 with all its pieces In other words Komodo 13.3 can beat Stash 27.0 with the same Odds that it gave GM Nakamura). Click where the letter H for GM Hikaru is located and you will see that it is playing at 2960+ and this was the results ==>

Here is the same position with the same Odds that Komodo gave GM Nakamura back in 2018, and if you replace Stash 27.0 instead of GM Nakamura playing white, this is what happened

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Date "2021.02.22"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stash-27.0-windows-x86_64-modern"]
[Black "Komodo-13.3-64bit"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "3470"]
[Time "08:59:19"]
[WhiteElo "3000"]
[TimeControl "600+1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pp1pp1pp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "53"]

1. e4 Nh6 2. d4 Nf7 3. d5 Qb6 4. Nf3 e5 5. Be2 Bc5 6. O-O d6 7. a4 a5 8.
Na3 O-O 9. Nc4 Qc7 10. Bd2 Nd7 11. Bd3 Nf6 12. Nxa5 Rxa5 13. b4 Bxb4 14.
Bxb4 Ra8 15. a5 Bg4 16. h3 Bh5 17. g4 Qd7 18. gxh5 Qxh3 19. Nh2 Ng5 20.
Bxd6 Nxh5 21. a6 bxa6 22. Be2 Nf4 23. Bf3 Rf6 24. Bxe5 Rg6 25. Kh1 Rh6 26.
Bxf4 Nxf3 27. Qxf3 {White resigns} *[/pgn]

[lkaufman]

3100 blitz for a human on some online site is not stronger than a 3000 CCRL blitz engine just because the absolute number is higher.

The absolute numbers from different rating systems with different player pools are not directly comparable.

Top humans like Naka or MVL would likely lose by very large margins in blitz to most engines that are around 3000 CCRL blitz; their high chess.com ratings would not save them.

Stash 27.0 is still much weaker than Komodo, so I'm sure it will lose games even with some large-ish odds.

Cheers!

Back in 2018 GM Nakamura played a few Odds versus Komodo version 13.3 and I believe that it is stronger than Stash 27.0 without Odds (Komodo 13.3 giving Odds is stronger than Stash 27.0 with all its pieces In other words Komodo 13.3 can beat Stash 27.0 with the same Odds that it gave GM Nakamura). Click where the letter H for GM Hikaru is located and you will see that it is playing at 2960+ and this was the results ==>

Here is the same position with the same Odds that Komodo gave GM Nakamura back in 2018, and if you replace Stash 27.0 instead of GM Nakamura playing white, this is what happened

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Date "2021.02.22"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stash-27.0-windows-x86_64-modern"]
[Black "Komodo-13.3-64bit"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "3470"]
[Time "08:59:19"]
[WhiteElo "3000"]
[TimeControl "600+1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pp1pp1pp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "53"]

1. e4 Nh6 2. d4 Nf7 3. d5 Qb6 4. Nf3 e5 5. Be2 Bc5 6. O-O d6 7. a4 a5 8.
Na3 O-O 9. Nc4 Qc7 10. Bd2 Nd7 11. Bd3 Nf6 12. Nxa5 Rxa5 13. b4 Bxb4 14.
Bxb4 Ra8 15. a5 Bg4 16. h3 Bh5 17. g4 Qd7 18. gxh5 Qxh3 19. Nh2 Ng5 20.
Bxd6 Nxh5 21. a6 bxa6 22. Be2 Nf4 23. Bf3 Rf6 24. Bxe5 Rg6 25. Kh1 Rh6 26.
Bxf4 Nxf3 27. Qxf3 {White resigns} *[/pgn]

I don't recall any game between Komodo and Nakamura at that handicap. The two handicap games they played in 2018 (excluding "knightmare") were at pawn and two moves (f7 off, e4 played, WTM), and at third knight for pawn (f7 pawn changes to a third knight).

[MonteCarlo]

Yeah, a few quick points.

1. As I said clearly already, Stash 27.0 is still quite a bit weaker than Komodo, so I know it will lose some games.

2. Some of the moves in that game Stash 27.0 switches from quickly for me, so either your machine is very slow and/or the TC was faster than the Naka match, both of which would likely decrease the weaker player's chances.

3. As Larry mentioned, that was not one of the odds from that match.

4. Nowhere have I ever said that there will be no example of something a human might do better than Stash 27.0, especially as a one-off.

My only points have been these, which are in no way affected by the game you posted.

1. Stash 27.0 is ~3000 CCRL blitz, so it shouldn't be surprising if it can outperform strong humans at some chess tasks

2. A human like Naka is a big underdog in blitz against ~3000 CCRL engines; his 3000+ chess.com blitz rating is not relevant.

For that matter, a single game is also not "proof" that Naka is stronger than Stash 27.0. I've won individual games against a lot of much stronger players, and even that isn't what happened here.

Cheers!

[Chessqueen]

3100 blitz for a human on some online site is not stronger than a 3000 CCRL blitz engine just because the absolute number is higher.

The absolute numbers from different rating systems with different player pools are not directly comparable.

Top humans like Naka or MVL would likely lose by very large margins in blitz to most engines that are around 3000 CCRL blitz; their high chess.com ratings would not save them.

Stash 27.0 is still much weaker than Komodo, so I'm sure it will lose games even with some large-ish odds.

Cheers!

Back in 2018 GM Nakamura played a few Odds versus Komodo version 13.3 and I believe that it is stronger than Stash 27.0 without Odds (Komodo 13.3 giving Odds is stronger than Stash 27.0 with all its pieces In other words Komodo 13.3 can beat Stash 27.0 with the same Odds that it gave GM Nakamura). Click where the letter H for GM Hikaru is located and you will see that it is playing at 2960+ and this was the results ==> [Event "Computer chess game"]

Here is the same position with the same Odds that Komodo gave GM Nakamura back in 2018, and if you replace Stash 27.0 instead of GM Nakamura playing white, this is what happened

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"]
[Date "2021.02.22"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stash-27.0-windows-x86_64-modern"]
[Black "Komodo-13.3-64bit"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "3470"]
[Time "08:59:19"]
[WhiteElo "3000"]
[TimeControl "600+1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pp1pp1pp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "53"]

1. e4 Nh6 2. d4 Nf7 3. d5 Qb6 4. Nf3 e5 5. Be2 Bc5 6. O-O d6 7. a4 a5 8.
Na3 O-O 9. Nc4 Qc7 10. Bd2 Nd7 11. Bd3 Nf6 12. Nxa5 Rxa5 13. b4 Bxb4 14.
Bxb4 Ra8 15. a5 Bg4 16. h3 Bh5 17. g4 Qd7 18. gxh5 Qxh3 19. Nh2 Ng5 20.
Bxd6 Nxh5 21. a6 bxa6 22. Be2 Nf4 23. Bf3 Rf6 24. Bxe5 Rg6 25. Kh1 Rh6 26.
Bxf4 Nxf3 27. Qxf3 {White resigns} *[/pgn]

I don't recall any game between Komodo and Nakamura at that handicap. The two handicap games they played in 2018 (excluding "knightmare") were at pawn and two moves (f7 off, e4 played, WTM), and at third knight for pawn (f7 pawn changes to a third knight).

If you look at the link that I provided and click under the h of the White Rook, you will see that Komodo gave the f7 pawn and it ended in a draw, but to prove my point I gave Stash 27 the extra c7 pawn to prove that it is NOT stronger than GM Nakamura