Let's get back to Reality in our scene

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Sylwy
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Re: The academics !?!

Post by Sylwy » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:18 am

Rolf wrote: Thanks Vasik, for giving chess power back to the people!
..................and money to ChessBase , ChessOK.................................

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: .......
==========
Axiom or law ?
==========

A new law of perpetual commerce ( just ) was born ?

Image

Big Bang regards ,
Silvian
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Rolf
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Re: The academics !?!

Post by Rolf » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:26 am

Sylwy wrote:
..................and money to ChessBase , ChessOK.................................
Our testers hopefully will understand the new jobs for them in the new organisations for millions of chess addicts around the World. A lot of operators and tech experts will be needed. Use your chances for a better living out of computerchess. Also I am pretty sure that in future more engines than just RYBKA will be offered for different tasks and user preferences. So, by all means all you programmers out there, please dont miss the new age of online chess assistance. Try to save new niches for your own incomes. Try to focus on interesting ideas for offers besides the market of pure Elo strength.

If you cant prevent a business, then dont go into business crimes but become a part of the business! (No use for cloners who wont profit because they must remain invisible. Sell your talents and become a legal member of the prospering industry of chess analyses. )

Dont hesitate but better ask yourself why you didnt already join yesterday! As one of the older here I can only advise you not to waste your time and energy by illegal activities or by doing nothing. Take your chances! You have only a single life to live.

All the best for all of you.
-Popper and Lakatos are good but I'm stuck on Leibowitz

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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: The academics !?!

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:41 am

Sylwy wrote:
Rolf wrote: Thanks Vasik, for giving chess power back to the people!
..................and money to ChessBase , ChessOK.................................

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: .......
==========
Axiom or law ?
==========

A new law of perpetual commerce ( just ) was born ?

Image

Big Bang regards ,
Silvian
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Thanks Silvian,Rolf looks great in this picture....I suppose it's taken 2-3 days ago :!: :?:

:lol:
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

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Sylwy
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Re: The academics !?!

Post by Sylwy » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:46 am

:lol:

Robert Flesher
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Re: Let's get back to Reality in our scene

Post by Robert Flesher » Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:17 am

Rolf wrote:Why the community should apologize to Vasik Rajlich. In special the famous CCC and its members. -

Although being a lay myself I found out the secret of the Rybka envy and hate.

After the incredible rise of RYBKA under its author Rajlich also established persons insinuated that Rybka has been influenced by FRUIT. But in the following years FRUIT author Letouzy saw no reason to sue Rajlich. So that the legal aspect is no issue.

Flawed logic, just because no action is taken against a crime / illegal action does not justifty its occurence. Absurd!

Rolf, Vas in his interview openly states that Fruit had NO influence on Rybka ?!! This has now been PROVEN to be false. Lies ! What does this say ? Try to look at the issue from a non biased point of view. You rant and talk about hate, how about you talk about the truth and the facts. Many just want the truth, but you seek to hide it with flavourful subjectivity.

Everything else since then is a topic of envy and hate. But basically the former leaders couldnt forget that they hadnt had the idea or let's say chance to create their own advanced FRUIT. And without a legal counterstrike they were left with the endless soup story of suspicion allegations that normally Vas shouldnt have been allowed what he has done. It took them almost 5 years to publish the details of the early Rybka.

However since RYBKA was so much stronger than all "their" FRUIT clones the community could watch several suicide acts. First unknown "Russians" created Rybka clones and Fabien still did not sue Vas.

These Russian clones found an quick end because they were weaker than Rybka.

The next step cared about two things. Absolute anonymity of authorship and stronger results than Rybka by RE and a little trick with lowest TC and more important simplest HW desperately hoping for a never succeeding cooperation for MP design and then possibly the World Championship title.

It all ended because of the disturbing anonymity. Because on that financial level court cases would have become interesting for Vas to launch if any concrete sponsor would ever have appeared. For obvious reasons this never happened.

In CCC the anonymous cloners cant openly be mentioned because of the ICD hosting of the forum. Hence the hate & envy guys created an Open forum with anonymous contributions and senseless comments by famous lurkers who condemn Vas for now having met his point of no return...! What a Drama Lhama!

As academic I want to simply ask the many members in our community if we all shouldnt better face and accept reality which simply states that Vas with Rybka ist the best and that envy cant harm him but could well destroy the whole hobby for hundreds of sympathetical members. Let's stop supporting cloners like Norm S. and all the madness. Of course also cloners have talents but we shouldnt tolerate mere hate and envy campaigns.

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Rolf
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Re: Let's get back to Reality in our scene

Post by Rolf » Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:37 am

Robert Flesher wrote: Flawed logic, just because no action is taken against a crime / illegal action does not justifty its occurence. Absurd!

Rolf, Vas in his interview openly states that Fruit had NO influence on Rybka ?!! This has now been PROVEN to be false. Lies ! What does this say ? Try to look at the issue from a non biased point of view. You rant and talk about hate, how about you talk about the truth and the facts. Many just want the truth, but you seek to hide it with flavourful subjectivity.
If I ranted with the trivial hint on top number one question of court cases then what is it what you are doing if that is all irrelevant for sure so to speak? Look, I am a lay and I couldnt decide on the technical question. Bob answered me that he wouldnt sue anyone, Fabien doesnt sue, so, I conclude that this whole question is gone for good. I mean we are in 2010 and the beta R1 was in 2005. Did you ever answer why perhaps Fab didnt sue Vas? Have you at least one idea?

Therefore I meant let's get back to the reality without old hate campaigns. For the best of the hobby and its community. Dont lose yourself in negative thoughts.
-Popper and Lakatos are good but I'm stuck on Leibowitz

gerold
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Re: Let's get back to Reality in our scene

Post by gerold » Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:20 pm

Will you pay to rent a cluster and play Rybka. I won't.
How many people will. 1-2 percent of the computer chess
players.
There has been a vacuum created by the top engine.
Not much improvement for the last version.
To long a wait for an upgrade of the top engine.
Now that vacuum is being filled by other engines stronger
than the top engine. This is the way the world turns. Others
will rush in to fill the empty space. Computer chess is about
competition.Who will win, the strongest engine at a reasonable
price. People love computer chess the field has been expanded
much in the past 6 months.

Best,
Gerold.

P.S.
Happy to see you posting in the real computer chess forum.
Welcome back to CCC.

Steve B
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Re: Let's get back to Reality in our scene

Post by Steve B » Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:31 pm

gerold wrote:
....posting in the real computer chess forum.
emphasis above by me...

you got that right
Spot On Regards
Steve

bob
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Re: Let's get back to Reality in our scene

Post by bob » Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:37 pm

Rolf wrote:
Robert Flesher wrote: Flawed logic, just because no action is taken against a crime / illegal action does not justifty its occurence. Absurd!

Rolf, Vas in his interview openly states that Fruit had NO influence on Rybka ?!! This has now been PROVEN to be false. Lies ! What does this say ? Try to look at the issue from a non biased point of view. You rant and talk about hate, how about you talk about the truth and the facts. Many just want the truth, but you seek to hide it with flavourful subjectivity.
If I ranted with the trivial hint on top number one question of court cases then what is it what you are doing if that is all irrelevant for sure so to speak? Look, I am a lay and I couldnt decide on the technical question. Bob answered me that he wouldnt sue anyone, Fabien doesnt sue, so, I conclude that this whole question is gone for good. I mean we are in 2010 and the beta R1 was in 2005. Did you ever answer why perhaps Fab didnt sue Vas? Have you at least one idea?

Therefore I meant let's get back to the reality without old hate campaigns. For the best of the hobby and its community. Dont lose yourself in negative thoughts.
For many of us, "the search for truth" has nothing to do with "hate". _Truth_ is what most are interested in. There may be some that hate Vas. There are some that hate me. There is someone that hates nearly everyone, if you look hard enough. So what. The truth is the issue. We know the truth about fruit/rybka, we know more about the Rybka/ip* issue.

You need to look up the word "consistency". On one hand you say that since Fabien did nothing about the Rybka/Fruit issue, all is ok, but then Vas has done nothing about the Rybka/IP* case, and yet things are _not_ ok.

You have to either pick a consistent position to argue from, or else stop making these posts that make you look like an idiot.

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Rolf
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Re: Let's get back to Reality in our scene

Post by Rolf » Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:20 pm

bob wrote:
Rolf wrote:
Robert Flesher wrote: Flawed logic, just because no action is taken against a crime / illegal action does not justifty its occurence. Absurd!

Rolf, Vas in his interview openly states that Fruit had NO influence on Rybka ?!! This has now been PROVEN to be false. Lies ! What does this say ? Try to look at the issue from a non biased point of view. You rant and talk about hate, how about you talk about the truth and the facts. Many just want the truth, but you seek to hide it with flavourful subjectivity.
If I ranted with the trivial hint on top number one question of court cases then what is it what you are doing if that is all irrelevant for sure so to speak? Look, I am a lay and I couldnt decide on the technical question. Bob answered me that he wouldnt sue anyone, Fabien doesnt sue, so, I conclude that this whole question is gone for good. I mean we are in 2010 and the beta R1 was in 2005. Did you ever answer why perhaps Fab didnt sue Vas? Have you at least one idea?

Therefore I meant let's get back to the reality without old hate campaigns. For the best of the hobby and its community. Dont lose yourself in negative thoughts.
For many of us, "the search for truth" has nothing to do with "hate". _Truth_ is what most are interested in. There may be some that hate Vas. There are some that hate me. There is someone that hates nearly everyone, if you look hard enough. So what. The truth is the issue. We know the truth about fruit/rybka, we know more about the Rybka/ip* issue.

You need to look up the word "consistency". On one hand you say that since Fabien did nothing about the Rybka/Fruit issue, all is ok, but then Vas has done nothing about the Rybka/IP* case, and yet things are _not_ ok.

You have to either pick a consistent position to argue from, or else stop making these posts that make you look like an idiot.
Err, but you are not an idiot if you choose inconsistent positions? How? -- We two at least know well why. You dont sue Vas because you cant prove against him. But folks, Bob does neither call the GPL offices and urge them to take Vas to task. Why? Because Bob knows that there wont be a case.

But if there wont be a case then everything against Vas (R1beta) is pure envy and hatred.

1) envy because certain famous experts have no idea how to improve their own prog so that it plays as well as Rybka; HINT nobody knows how Vas has done the miracle, also not Bob - talking about adopting the ideas andf then use them in the tech of the own prog - Vas is the only one who knows all the tricks! IMO

2) hate for different but failing reasons. Because Vas created his own forum after he was practically outsorted for allegedly dominating the CCC topics with his Rybka topics. Secondly because Vas did not accept a sort of sub role towards Bob. Thirdly for mere propaganda reasons. Theron: If I had no ethics like Vas I would also have a Tiger that were as strong as Rybka. That is character defamation of its finest but total nonsense because also CT has never shown proof against Vas. Since the case has a legal aspect suddenly these two grand experts presented Zach W. a total newbie, certainly someone with no financial background, so that a case against him wouldnt be worth while.

---------

My own position is pretty consistent because I agree with Vas that in case of Hippo anons it's not necessary to show one's evidence. As Vas wrote, in case someone would step forward, Vas would of course present his facts.

----


So, Bob, where is your problem? I can only repeat my call for all the opposing experts against Rybka, to tone down and looking forward into the future, there by doing the best for the community and computerchess as such.

It's absolutely contra-productive that a World Champion is molested and chased while he is always demonstrating that he is stronger than everybody else. The publication through RE codes does no harm to Vas but it destroys the usual CC contenders. Vas will always show that he's better, but they might lose interest in the scene.

It's telling for the bad ethical substance in CC that prior to Rybka nobody took the Champion prog and undertook it a RE and then published it in public - but now based on envy and hate certain older experts thought this were the best reaction also if it destroyed the usual CC comepetitions.

But Vas doesnt care. He goes for Clusters and online offers so that his genial codes are protected. But I digress. ;)
-Popper and Lakatos are good but I'm stuck on Leibowitz

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