Sting SF 4.8.4 correction

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Ozymandias
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Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:30 am

Re: Sting SF 4.8.4 Another position to find

Post by Ozymandias »

lech wrote:
fishpov wrote: Here also any engine is not able to find white move to win.
[d]q1N5/b1p5/1pP2k2/pP3Bp1/P1P5/6P1/1K3P2/8 w - - 0 8
I can't find the win here too. Let me watch the solution. :oops:
I'm not sure that modifying an engine, to solve positions which can't be reached in a game, is beneficial.
This problem is entertaining, but there's no legal way of getting the black bishop to a7.
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Vinvin
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Full name: Vincent Lejeune

Re: Sting SF 4.8.4 Another position to find

Post by Vinvin »

Ozymandias wrote:
lech wrote:
fishpov wrote: Here also any engine is not able to find white move to win.
[d]q1N5/b1p5/1pP2k2/pP3Bp1/P1P5/6P1/1K3P2/8 w - - 0 8
I can't find the win here too. Let me watch the solution. :oops:
I'm not sure that modifying an engine, to solve positions which can't be reached in a game, is beneficial.
This problem is entertaining, but there's no legal way of getting the black bishop to a7.
???
I found a legal way in about 3 seconds : a5, Bc5, Ba7, b6
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lech
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:02 pm

Re: Sting SF 4.8.4 Another position to find

Post by lech »

Thank you Herbert for the solution!
This example :roll: is very useful for my new idea. 8-)
I don't know how much beer I need to solve it :lol: but I think that it is the last serious and tough problem before my project. :?
BTW. I will add a code to recognize closed by 16 pawns positions quickly, too. :)
Maybe, I can't be friendly, but let me be useful.
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Ozymandias
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Re: Sting SF 4.8.4 Another position to find

Post by Ozymandias »

Vinvin wrote: ???
I found a legal way in about 3 seconds : a5, Bc5, Ba7, b6
Duh
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Vinvin
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Full name: Vincent Lejeune

Re: Sting SF 4.8.4 correction

Post by Vinvin »

Marek, here's 4 or 5 more fortress to solve with Sting ;-)
http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... =&start=10
lech wrote:I cleaned code of Sting and removed some doubt pieces (joyful creativity).
It seems to be a good start point for my next ideas, but now I need a longer rest.
I hope this version is finally stable and ready to be tested (ELO) if someone want to do it.

Link: http://www.mediafire.com/download/yvw4w ... sf-484.zip
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lech
Posts: 1136
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Re: Sting SF 4.8.4 correction

Post by lech »

Vinvin wrote:Marek, here's 4 or 5 more fortress to solve with Sting ;-)
http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... =&start=10
lech wrote:I cleaned code of Sting and removed some doubt pieces (joyful creativity).
It seems to be a good start point for my next ideas, but now I need a longer rest.
I hope this version is finally stable and ready to be tested (ELO) if someone want to do it.

Link: http://www.mediafire.com/download/yvw4w ... sf-484.zip
Thanks Vincent, but now I try to improve the Sting's search. The found Stockfish's 2.1.1 bug at BETA changes my work.
If you can't see a gain between depths it means a possible DRAW. :P
Maybe, I can't be friendly, but let me be useful.
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Vinvin
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Full name: Vincent Lejeune

Re: Sting SF 4.8.4 correction

Post by Vinvin »

I can make comments on most of the following positions but please chose 5 to start ...
lech wrote:I prepared a list of endgame positions. Many of them Sting is able to solve very easly. Some need a strong machine, and some (a few) Sting SF 4.8.4 can't still solve.
If you want to help me, each information about these or other endgame positions difficult for Sting, are welcome.

Code: Select all

8/8/p2k1p2/1p1p3p/1P1P3p/P3NPP1/5K2/1b6 w - - bm Ng2;
1n6/Pp1p1p1p/1P1P1P1P/4K3/2p5/p7/rpp1P3/qkb1R3 w - - bm axb8N;
4N3/B6p/n2p4/rk1P4/p6p/P3Pp1P/3N1P1b/5K2 w - - bm Ke1;
8/p7/qkpN1p2/8/1B1P4/PP3K2/5P2/8 w - - bm Ba5+; 
6k1/7R/6P1/7P/8/6r1/8/K7 w - - bm Ka2;
8/8/8/8/1kB1q3/8/1PRb4/1K6 b - - bm Qh1+;
4kr2/5p1K/3p1Q2/1p4P1/4P3/1PP5/7b/8 w - - bm Kh6;
6R1/8/2pB3k/2P4p/5p1q/5P2/4P1K1/8 w - - bm Bf8+;
8/5p2/8/8/p7/rpK4p/1p3ppr/bQ1N1bqk w - - bm Kb4(d4);
1N4K1/1pp1p3/7k/2r3pP/p2pp1P1/P6N/8/2B5 w - - bm Nc6;
4k1rr/1R1R3p/8/8/8/2K5/7P/8 w k - bm Rd2;
5K2/k4p1p/5p1p/1p3p2/bP6/1p6/1P5p/7B w - - bm Ke8(e7);
2b1rk2/5p2/p1P5/2p2P2/2p5/7B/P7/2KR4 w - - bm f6;
4r1k1/pp5p/2p1bR2/2P5/2B1n3/2B2K2/PP5P/8 w - - bm Rxe6;
8/1pN4r/5pkp/8/5K1p/2P4N/P3Bn2/8 w - - bm Bh5+;
k4r2/1pp5/3bP3/3N4/5p2/1P6/4R1P1/K7 w - - bm e7;
8/7p/5P1k/1p5P/5p2/2p1p3/P1P1P1P1/1K3Nb1 w - - bm Ng3;
n2Bqk2/5p1p/Q4KP1/p7/8/8/8/8 w - - bm Qc8;
5rk1/pp3p1p/7b/2pR4/8/2P4P/P1PNr1P1/2K4R b - - Rxd2;
1k6/p3pp2/rr6/N1R4B/1R6/pp6/7p/7K w - - bm Rbc4;
8/p2p4/8/3p4/1Q6/4K3/Pp6/qk6 w - - bm Qa4;
6q1/2N3p1/8/k7/8/1p1p4/1P1Pp1Q1/1n2K3 w - - bm Qc6;
8/6pp/1K6/N5P1/3N4/8/npn1P3/k7 w - - bm Nab3+;
5kN1/3p1q2/5P2/5PP1/2pK4/1p1R4/1P6/8 w - - bm Rxb3;
8/3P3k/n2K3p/2p3n1/1b4N1/2p1p1P1/8/3B4 w - - bm Nf6+;
2N5/p7/P7/8/1KPp1p1p/3p1Bpp/3P2rq/R5bk w - - bm Nb6;
3Q4/3p4/P2p4/N2b4/8/4P3/5p1p/5Kbk w - - bm Qa8;
3r2k1/p6p/b2r2p1/2qPQp2/2P2P2/8/6BP/R4R1K w - - bm Rxa6;
8/P7/4k3/8/5P2/4Bq2/5P2/5K2 b - - Kf5;
8/6kP/1p6/p7/Pr6/K2B4/8/8 b - - bm Rh4 (next Kg7->f6->e5);
3B4/1r2p3/r2p1p2/bkp1P1p1/1p1P1PPp/p1P4P/PPB1K3/8 w - - bm Ba4+;
7b/p1p1p3/P1PpPp2/2nP1kpr/5P1p/p3KBPP/P7/8 w - - bm Be4+;
8/3k1b1r/2p1p1p1/rpPpPpPp/p2P1P1P/P2K4/8/4B3 w - - bm Bb4;
8/8/2pk4/8/p1p3B1/PpP5/1P6/r1NK4 w - - bm Bf5;
3k4/2pq3p/pp5R/4P3/P6P/2PN4/1PN3K1/8 w - - bm Nd4 (Kf3 probably solves too);
8/8/4B3/6p1/7k/8/4pPKP/8 w - - bm Bg4;
r7/7k/5R2/p3p3/Pp1pPp2/1PpP1Pp1/K1P3P1/8 w - - bm Kb1;
8/8/7p/3KNN1k/2p4p/8/3P2p1/8 w - - bm Kc6;
2b1r3/r2ppN2/8/1p1p1k2/pP1P4/2P3R1/PP3PP1/2K5 w - - bm Nd6+;
Kn6/8/8/3R2PB/8/2p2NP1/1q6/2k5 w - - bm Rd1+;
8/8/R7/1b4k1/5p2/1B3r2/7P/7K w - - bm h4+;
1R6/pPk1r3/2p5/K7/8/2B1b3/8/8 w - - bm Ka6;
7r/p3k3/2p5/1pPp4/3P4/PP4P1/3P1PB1/2K5 w - - bm Kd1;
5k2/4bp2/2B3p1/1P4p1/3R4/3P2PP/2r2PK1/8 b - - bm Rxf2+;
N7/8/2KR2rp/6k1/3p3p/2p4P/4PP2/5N2 w - - bm f4+;
k7/2Q5/8/8/8/8/7K/6r1 b - - Rh1+;
1r6/4k3/r2p2p1/2pR1p1p/2P1pP1P/pPK1P1P1/P7/1B6 b - - bm Rxb3+;
7k/6rp/5BpN/1r4P1/8/8/8/K7 b - - bm Rf5;
8/5pKN/5Pp1/5kP1/8/Bb6/8/7q b - - bm Qxh7;
8/1q3pKN/5Pp1/5kP1/8/Bb6/8/8 b - - bm Qh1;
8/1p3pKN/5Pp1/5kP1/1B6/Pb6/8/7r b - -  bm Rxh7;
3N2r1/2K1p3/4Pk2/8/Bp5b/8/2P5/8 b - - bm Bg3+ (and next Kd7 Rxd8+);
7R/6pb/6k1/Pr4Pp/7P/6K1/8/8 b - - bm Kf7;
4n3/4k3/p4n2/Pp1p1p1p/QPpPpPpP/2P1P1P1/1R3BK1/7R w - - bm Qxb5;
3r1r1q/4p3/k2pPp2/b1pP1Pp1/1pP1B1Pp/pP5P/P3K3/8 b - - bm Qg8;
8/8/8/1k3p2/p1p1pPp1/PpPpP1Pp/1P1P3P/QNK2NRR w - - bm Kd1;
1k6/3p4/1B6/4Pp1p/1p5R/1p4p1/pP3n2/K6n w - - bm Rxh1;
q7/b1p5/kp1p4/p2PN3/PPP5/1K6/8/5B2 w - - bm c5+;
8/4K2p/6pr/5pk1/1pB2R2/p4PP1/8/8 w - - bm Rg4+;
1K3kB1/8/6p1/7R/8/4b3/8/6n1 w - - bm Rh8 (and next Kg7 Bh7); 
1k6/8/1B5p/1R6/6K1/8/8/7r w - - bm Bg1+;
4q1kr/p6p/1prQPppB/4n3/4P3/2P5/PP2B2P/R5K1 w - - bm Qxe5;
5q2/1p1kp3/pP4p1/4B3/3N3K/1B6/P4P2/8 w - - bm Be6+;
q1b4n/1p1pKp2/1p1p1Pp1/1P1P2Pp/2P4P/8/7R/1N1k4 w - - bm Ra2;
4bkrb/1K2p1r1/4P2B/8/8/8/8/7R w - - bm Ra1;
4K1k1/8/1p5p/1Pp3b1/8/1P3P2/P1B2P2/8 w - - bm f4;
8/5kpp/2bp1p2/p7/2rP4/R1P2P2/P1N3PP/6K1 b - - bm a4;
3r4/p5kP/2B2b2/2pp3P/8/4K3/P7/5R2 w - - bm h6+;
1k1n4/1p1b1p2/1Bp1pPp1/1PP1P3/8/6P1/8/1K6 w - - bm Bc7+;
1k6/bPN2pp1/Pp2p3/p1p5/2pn4/3P4/PPR5/1K6 w - - bm Na8;
5B1q/3N3p/p3p2p/7k/B7/5PP1/K6P/8 w - - bm Ne5;
2r5/prkpR1p1/2p1ppK1/P1p1N1B1/P1P1P3/8/8/8 w - - bm Bf4;
8/1R2k1p1/4P2p/5P1P/2K5/8/8/6r1 b - - bm Ke8;
8/p6p/2k3p1/4Pp2/2K2P1P/6P1/8/8 w - - bm h5;
1b6/3kB3/8/1KpPp2p/4Pp1P/5P2/8/8 w - - bm Bf8;
8/5pk1/r5pp/P7/3R3P/6P1/5PK1/8 w - - bm (Rd5 or Ra4 or both ?);
8/2p1q3/p3P3/2P4p/1PBP2kP/2N3P1/7K/8 w - - bm Be2+;
6K1/2r3Pp/k1P2p1p/8/p7/5P2/2PN4/8 w - - bm Kh8;
6k1/1pp2p2/3p4/p2P1Pp1/2P1n1Pp/4B1nP/PP4B1/4K3 w - - bn Bxe4;
4b3/1p2k3/p1p1p1p1/2P1P2p/1P3P1P/PK1B4/8/8 w - - bm Ka4;
8/8/4kpp1/3p1b2/p6P/2B5/6P1/6K1 b - - bm Bh3;
2k5/p7/Pp1p1b2/1P1P1p2/2P2P1p/3K3P/5B2/8 w - - bm c5;
1b3k2/2p2pp1/1pP1p2p/8/PP6/4P3/6NP/4K3 b - - bm b5;
8/1B6/3r2p1/5p1p/5P1P/4k1P1/8/6K1 b - - bm g5;
8/8/4b1p1/2Bp3p/5P1P/1pK1Pk2/8/8 b - - bm g5;
8/3Pk1p1/1p2P1K1/1P1Bb3/7p/7P/6P1/8 w - - bm g4;
8/6p1/4B2p/8/6P1/p2k1K2/6P1/8 w - - bm g5;
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lech
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:02 pm

Re: Sting SF 4.8.4 correction

Post by lech »

Vinvin wrote:I can make comments on most of the following positions but please chose 5 to start ...
lech wrote:I prepared a list of endgame positions. Many of them Sting is able to solve very easly. Some need a strong machine, and some (a few) Sting SF 4.8.4 can't still solve.
If you want to help me, each information about these or other endgame positions difficult for Sting, are welcome.

Code: Select all

...
6k1/7R/6P1/7P/8/6r1/8/K7 w - - bm Ka2;
..
5th position it is a win after a deep zugzwang.

Sorry for the missing sources, but I believe that it is very easy to find it, :oops:

A pity, but all my work included the version 4.8.4 works with the serious Stockfish's 2.1.1 bug.
Try to solve this position (10x; clear hash before each try!):
[d]8/8/7p/3KNN1k/2p4p/8/3P2p1/8 w - - bm Kc6;
Each try should return the correct solution Kc6 very quickly ( ~~ before 27 depth). It does not happens! :P
Maybe, I can't be friendly, but let me be useful.
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Vinvin
Posts: 5228
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:40 am
Full name: Vincent Lejeune

Re: Sting SF 4.8.4 correction

Post by Vinvin »

lech wrote:
Vinvin wrote:I can make comments on most of the following positions but please chose 5 to start ...
lech wrote:I prepared a list of endgame positions. Many of them Sting is able to solve very easly. Some need a strong machine, and some (a few) Sting SF 4.8.4 can't still solve.
If you want to help me, each information about these or other endgame positions difficult for Sting, are welcome.

Code: Select all

...
6k1/7R/6P1/7P/8/6r1/8/K7 w - - bm Ka2;
..
5th position it is a win after a deep zugzwang.

Sorry for the missing sources, but I believe that it is very easy to find it, :oops:

A pity, but all my work included the version 4.8.4 works with the serious Stockfish's 2.1.1 bug.
Try to solve this position (10x; clear hash before each try!):
[d]8/8/7p/3KNN1k/2p4p/8/3P2p1/8 w - - bm Kc6;
Each try should return the correct solution Kc6 very quickly ( ~~ before 27 depth). It does not happens! :P
I remember well this one : I analyzed it deeply 10 (or more) years ago ( http://www.stmintz.com/ccc/index.php?id=481338 ).
http://en.chessbase.com/post/john-nunn- ... y-is-sound
I test it some months ago, but I didn't select it for my Hard2015 because SF solved it easily on my I7-6*4GHz (around 1 minute).
I'll look more closely this evening.
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lech
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:02 pm

Re: Sting SF 4.8.4 correction

Post by lech »

[d]8/8/7p/3KNN1k/2p4p/8/3P2p1/8 w - - bm Kc6; K. K. Behting, Baltische Schachblätter 1908
Vinvin wrote:I remember well this one : I analyzed it deeply 10 (or more) years ago ( http://www.stmintz.com/ccc/index.php?id=481338 ).
http://en.chessbase.com/post/john-nunn- ... y-is-sound
I test it some months ago, but I didn't select it for my Hard2015 because SF solved it easily on my I7-6*4GHz (around 1 minute).
I'll look more closely this evening.
It proves my words that engines can find some tough fortress easly.
Stockfish rejects a hole fortress (described by Jon Nunn in your second link :http://en.chessbase.com/post/john-nunn- ... y-is-sound), and the next correct one, close by score is found quickly. It is very important that engines can return a correct PV line (solution). The score is a question of interpretation always (excluding mate and draw).
Maybe, I can't be friendly, but let me be useful.
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