What will be the score of knight odds match vs. FM Bolzoni?

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What will the match score be for Komodo against FM Bolzoni?

Poll ended at Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:50 am

0 out of 6
2
5%
1 out of 6
4
10%
2 out of 6
7
17%
3 out of 6
6
15%
4 out of 6
5
12%
5 out of 6
7
17%
6 out of 6
10
24%
 
Total votes: 41

lkaufman
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What will be the score of knight odds match vs. FM Bolzoni?

Post by lkaufman » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:50 am

Latest Komodo (with contempt to avoid needless exchanges) on fast six core vs. FM Bolzoni (FIDE 2187, born 1962), Komodo giving knight (b1) odds but always getting White and winning draws. Time limit 45' + 15". The only similar match on record was Rybka (near Rybka 3, on octal machine about 8 years ago) against FM John Meyer, won by Meyer with a perfect 4 out of 4 score. Without making any prediction about the match myself, I'll just make the comment that IF Komodo manages to draw or win the match, I think it would be a remarkable achievement. Masters normally just resign when they lose a piece for nothing, or even sometimes if they get a pawn for it. If Komodo pulls off a drawn or better result, it would mean that chess is a much deeper and more difficult game than is generally believed. So even if I had no involvement with Komodo, I would root for it just for what it would tell us about how far human play is from what is possible.
Komodo rules!

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Laskos
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Re: What will be the score of knight odds match vs. FM Bolzo

Post by Laskos » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:07 am

lkaufman wrote:Latest Komodo (with contempt to avoid needless exchanges)
Isn't contempt in Komodo similar to drawscore? And now draws are good. Some exchanges might be beneficial in achieving the draw. I am not sure how will you achieve a better score to win and to draw using only the drawscore. If you reasonably fix the goals of Komodo in this match, I would bet on Komodo getting equal or more than 3/6.
on fast six core vs. FM Bolzoni (FIDE 2187, born 1962), Komodo giving knight (b1) odds but always getting White and winning draws. Time limit 45' + 15". The only similar match on record was Rybka (near Rybka 3, on octal machine about 8 years ago) against FM John Meyer, won by Meyer with a perfect 4 out of 4 score. Without making any prediction about the match myself, I'll just make the comment that IF Komodo manages to draw or win the match, I think it would be a remarkable achievement. Masters normally just resign when they lose a piece for nothing, or even sometimes if they get a pawn for it. If Komodo pulls off a drawn or better result, it would mean that chess is a much deeper and more difficult game than is generally believed. So even if I had no involvement with Komodo, I would root for it just for what it would tell us about how far human play is from what is possible.

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Graham Banks
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Re: What will be the score of knight odds match vs. FM Bolzo

Post by Graham Banks » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:35 am

I'll go for 2/6.
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lkaufman
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Re: What will be the score of knight odds match vs. FM Bolzo

Post by lkaufman » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:40 am

Laskos wrote:
lkaufman wrote:Latest Komodo (with contempt to avoid needless exchanges)
Isn't contempt in Komodo similar to drawscore? And now draws are good. Some exchanges might be beneficial in achieving the draw. I am not sure how will you achieve a better score to win and to draw using only the drawscore. If you reasonably fix the goals of Komodo in this match, I would bet on Komodo getting equal or more than 3/6.
quote]

Until now contempt was just another name for drawscore (with sign flipped). But now we have changed Komodo to also use the contempt setting to try to avoid piece exchanges, especially queen exchanges. It's probably similar to what Houdini did. We will probably keep the default setting modest, but for handicap matches it should be pretty aggressive. I'm trying to determine now what setting would likely work best in this match. What do you mean by "fix the goals of Komodo"? Komodo will still aim for a draw when possible if it's significantly behind; if it is not much behind it will almost surely not lose in any case.
Komodo rules!

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Laskos
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Re: What will be the score of knight odds match vs. FM Bolzo

Post by Laskos » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:51 am

lkaufman wrote:
Laskos wrote:
lkaufman wrote:Latest Komodo (with contempt to avoid needless exchanges)
Isn't contempt in Komodo similar to drawscore? And now draws are good. Some exchanges might be beneficial in achieving the draw. I am not sure how will you achieve a better score to win and to draw using only the drawscore. If you reasonably fix the goals of Komodo in this match, I would bet on Komodo getting equal or more than 3/6.
quote]

Until now contempt was just another name for drawscore (with sign flipped). But now we have changed Komodo to also use the contempt setting to try to avoid piece exchanges, especially queen exchanges. It's probably similar to what Houdini did. We will probably keep the default setting modest, but for handicap matches it should be pretty aggressive. I'm trying to determine now what setting would likely work best in this match. What do you mean by "fix the goals of Komodo"? Komodo will still aim for a draw when possible if it's significantly behind; if it is not much behind it will almost surely not lose in any case.
For example, a goal would be to get a simpler, surer draw than to complicate things for a possible win when at mild disadvantage. I understood that a draw is equal to a win.

Jesse Gersenson
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Re: What will be the score of knight odds match vs. FM Bolzo

Post by Jesse Gersenson » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:01 pm

1 out of 6, one tactical oversight.

Vinvin
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Re: What will be the score of knight odds match vs. FM Bolzo

Post by Vinvin » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:39 pm

Jesse Gersenson wrote:1 out of 6, one tactical oversight.
I expect a lot of little mistakes for the human and added one to others, Komodo will get easily draw (or even wining) positions. I vote for 4 (and may be 5) salvages for Komodo.

Isaac
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Re: What will be the score of knight odds match vs. FM Bolzo

Post by Isaac » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:04 pm

0/6. I don't believe the human will win any game although draw quite likely.

lkaufman
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Re: What will be the score of knight odds match vs. FM Bolzo

Post by lkaufman » Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:14 pm

Laskos wrote:
lkaufman wrote:
Laskos wrote:
lkaufman wrote:Latest Komodo (with contempt to avoid needless exchanges)
Isn't contempt in Komodo similar to drawscore? And now draws are good. Some exchanges might be beneficial in achieving the draw. I am not sure how will you achieve a better score to win and to draw using only the drawscore. If you reasonably fix the goals of Komodo in this match, I would bet on Komodo getting equal or more than 3/6.
quote]

Until now contempt was just another name for drawscore (with sign flipped). But now we have changed Komodo to also use the contempt setting to try to avoid piece exchanges, especially queen exchanges. It's probably similar to what Houdini did. We will probably keep the default setting modest, but for handicap matches it should be pretty aggressive. I'm trying to determine now what setting would likely work best in this match. What do you mean by "fix the goals of Komodo"? Komodo will still aim for a draw when possible if it's significantly behind; if it is not much behind it will almost surely not lose in any case.
For example, a goal would be to get a simpler, surer draw than to complicate things for a possible win when at mild disadvantage. I understood that a draw is equal to a win.
Once the score is close to zero Komodo won't lose in any case; the problem is how to play when we are still totally lost. Obviously Komodo should avoid most piece trades when down a piece, but it's not so obvious whether to try for open positions or not. Open positions favor the computer, but also favor simplification. What other good general rules apply when down a piece? Not much theory on that, since most GMs just resign when down a piece for nothing.
Komodo rules!

Ferdy
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Re: What will be the score of knight odds match vs. FM Bolzo

Post by Ferdy » Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:43 pm

Komodo W/L/D, 3/0/3
If a draw is a win, that would be 6/6.

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