Big discrepancy between Men's and Women's Prize

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Ras
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Re: Big discrepancy between Men's and Women's Prize

Post by Ras » Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:46 pm

Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:41 pm
Chess there is a Men World Chess Championship
Nope. Judith Polgar could freely participate in "men" tournaments. The whole women chess championship is only because other female players are so weak that they want their own pseudo championship where men are disallowed. Want the same prize as men? Make moves that are as good as men's and win against Carlsen. Then grab the full money. But - weak moves, weak money, that's just fair.
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yurikvelo
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Re: Big discrepancy between Men's and Women's Prize

Post by yurikvelo » Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:10 pm

no discrepancy, man who play the same level get 100x less.

there is much more positive discrimination of woman: they are paid the same as men even if their productivity (based on willingness and abilities) is much lower than of man at same position

and they almost never agree to work the same amount/quality of work for less money

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcDrE5YvqTs

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Re: Big discrepancy between Men's and Women's Prize

Post by Chessqueen » Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:19 am

Ras wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:46 pm
Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:41 pm
Chess there is a Men World Chess Championship
Nope. Judith Polgar could freely participate in "men" tournaments. The whole women chess championship is only because other female players are so weak that they want their own pseudo championship where men are disallowed. Want the same prize as men? Make moves that are as good as men's and win against Carlsen. Then grab the full money. But - weak moves, weak money, that's just fair.
Wrong again Judith Polgal did participated, but never qualified to be the finalist chess challenger for the Men World Chess Championship. Now Judith is too weak to even challenge You Yifan who is only rated 2658 and the two 2 times they played against rach other You Yifan has an edge scowe over Judith. Plus you are holding Men rating way too high since there has been more than 6 men rated much higher than 50 rating points that GM You Yifan has beaten.

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Ras
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Re: Big discrepancy between Men's and Women's Prize

Post by Ras » Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:28 am

Chessqueen wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:19 am
Wrong again Judith Polgal did participated, but never qualified to be the finalist
That has nothing to do with her being a woman, but that she didn't make good enough moves. See, I never qualified as finalist either.
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Re: Big discrepancy between Men's and Women's Prize

Post by Chessqueen » Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:38 pm

Ras wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:28 am
Chessqueen wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:19 am
Wrong again Judith Polgal did participated, but never qualified to be the finalist
That has nothing to do with her being a woman, but that she didn't make good enough moves. See, I never qualified as finalist either.
The reason why I posted about GM Hou Yifan is to let you know that The Chinese super intelligent female chess player also compete against men, but she is different than Judit Polgal in the sense that Judit was very dedicated and spent most of her time studying chess whereas GM Hou Yifan unlike many top players who dedicate every waking moment to improving their game, from an early age GM Hou decided chess would be a hobby and not a career. "I do believe that if I put 100% of my energy into chess I would do much better than what I am right now," she says. "But I think everyone has different dreams." She is out of competition at the moment since she is getting her Master at Oxford University. https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/22/middleea ... index.html

At university, Hou continued to train and compete. But chess was not her priority: She took a full course load, joined several extracurricular activities and devoted as much time as possible to meeting people outside her sport.

This is how Kramnik describe GM Hou Yifan "Thus far, Hou has relied on natural talent and intuition to carry her forward. "This very natural feeling of the game is hard to describe," Kramnik said. "She doesn't need to calculate, to come logically to a certain good move — she just feels it. That's a sign of big talent. I experienced something similar when I played [world champion] Magnus Carlsen for the first time... If she wants to stay the best female player, she can probably do nothing. If she wants to achieve her potential, she must concentrate fully on chess, at least for the next few years. But she has to choose — she can't study and compete. It's just too tough — the competition is too tough."

GM Hou Yifan performance was above 2800 at the Gibraltar in 2012 ahead of Judit Polgal http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=76509
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl ... &pid=95916

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Ras
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Re: Big discrepancy between Men's and Women's Prize

Post by Ras » Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:59 pm

Chessqueen wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:38 pm
GM Hou Yifan unlike many top players who dedicate every waking moment to improving their game, from an early age GM Hou decided chess would be a hobby and not a career.
So? If you want to become world chess champion, then you have to do the work required. If people are not willing to do that work, that's perfectly fine, but then they have to live without being champion as consequence. No gender discrimination here.

What you are constantly promoting here is women who work less and perform worse and then still should feel entitled for the money. Nope, that's not how equal treatment works.
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Re: Big discrepancy between Men's and Women's Prize

Post by Chessqueen » Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:31 pm

Ras wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:59 pm
Chessqueen wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:38 pm
GM Hou Yifan unlike many top players who dedicate every waking moment to improving their game, from an early age GM Hou decided chess would be a hobby and not a career.
So? If you want to become world chess champion, then you have to do the work required. If people are not willing to do that work, that's perfectly fine, but then they have to live without being champion as consequence. No gender discrimination here.

I Guess you do NOT get it. She was the Women's World Chess Champion, there is NO such thing as the World Chess Champion, but there is either the Men's World chess Champion or the Women's World Chess Champion, here take at look at this: https://en.chessbase.com/post/women-wor ... -2018-live
The only reason she is not participating is because she is finishing her Master at the Oxford University, therefore, she is taking a short Hiatus from chess.

And it is not like you stated it, that women are mere IM, for your information GM Hou Yifan can take any group of men GMs rated less than 2750 and beat them mercifully, simply take a look at this http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=76509 , and she even drew with the current FIDE men Number #3 http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessplayer?pid=50065 ,but not for too long because tomorrow GM Ding Liren not only will break GM Tal Record which he tied today, but also will become the number#3 rated player www.2700chess.com

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1655803

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Re: Big discrepancy between Men's and Women's Prize

Post by Ras » Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:48 pm

From Wikipedia: "Hou Yifan was one of 24 players selected to play in the FIDE Grand Prix 2017, a qualification stage for the World Chess Championship 2018. She reached position 17 in the final standings, and thus was not able to qualify for the Championship."

There is STILL no "Men's World Chess Championship". Hou Yifan tried to participate and simply wasn't good enough. 17th out of 24, that's the LOWEST THIRD part. If she had been good enough, she might have had a shot at Carlsen. Instead, she ended up low in the list, and instead of her, Mamedyarov and Grischuk qualified.

Stop the whining and women up!
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Re: Big discrepancy between Men's and Women's Prize

Post by Chessqueen » Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:16 pm

Ras wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:48 pm
From Wikipedia: "Hou Yifan was one of 24 players selected to play in the FIDE Grand Prix 2017, a qualification stage for the World Chess Championship 2018. She reached position 17 in the final standings, and thus was not able to qualify for the Championship."

There is STILL no "Men's World Chess Championship". Hou Yifan tried to participate and simply wasn't good enough. 17th out of 24, that's the LOWEST THIRD part. If she had been good enough, she might have had a shot at Carlsen. Instead, she ended up low in the list, and instead of her, Mamedyarov and Grischuk qualified.

People like you only post the bad news, but it was NOT the lowest since she ended up in front of Pavel rated 2759, Francisco Vallejo rated 2709, Boris Gelfand ex FIDE men World Championship Challenger rated 2720 The World Chess Championship 2012 was a match between the defending world champion Viswanathan Anand of India and challenger Boris Gelfand of Israel, winner of the World Championship Candidates Knock-Out Tournament ; and Ernesto rated 2723, therefore she ended up in a GREAT place ahead of all these Men FIDE rated above 2700+
And to remind you all these men FIDE 2700+, study way harder than GM Hou Yifan who did NOT had time to dedicate more than 1 hour a day since according to her she was attending one of the most prestige University of China, getting her bachelor degree, and later on continue and went to study at Oxford university to get her Master.

Please, please before you post get all the facts together, do not post a piece here and there, she is WAY WAY smarter than most of the regular 100% chess dedicated players, that only study chess all the time.

In 2012, Hou chose to attend Peking University, one of China's top universities, to study international relations. It was an unusual move for a rising chess star; most forgo higher education to train and compete full time. Her coach strongly disagreed with the decision. "Use your best years for chess," he told her. "Improve as much as you can." For Hou, the choice was about forging a life beyond chess. "I want my life to be rich and colorful, not narrow," she said. "I knew it would impact my chess, but that's how I wanted to live my life." At university, Hou continued to train and compete. But chess was not her priority: She took a full course load, joined several extracurricular activities and devoted as much time as possible to meeting people outside her sport. "She always tells me, 'Chess is just a game; chess will not consume my entire life.
http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/206 ... ss-players

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Re: Big discrepancy between Men's and Women's Prize

Post by Ras » Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:40 pm

Chessqueen wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:16 pm
but it was NOT the lowest since she ended up in front of Pavel rated 2759, Francisco Vallejo rated 2709, Boris Gelfand ex FIDE men World Championship Challenger rated 2720
None of whom qualified for the World Chess Championship either.
And to remind you all these men FIDE 2700+, study way harder than GM Hou Yifan
She still didn't study enough to even make it into the top half of the FIDE Grand Prix 2017, let alone contend for the first two places. And she already HAD a lucky shot because she (along with 8 others) was nominated by the organiser. You simply can't compete for World Chess Championship if you are doing chess as a hobby. That was her decision - no discrimination again.

I don't see why she should be entitled to half of the World Chess Championship money at her level of play just because she's a woman. A man with her performance would not get considerable prize money either.

So, that was my last posting here because your constant whining that women should get preferred treatment just because they're women simply annoys me.
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