Marvin 5.00 - Ethereal 12.75, 1:0 mate after 33!! ... great game!

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi John,

at the moment I collect such positions for a site like this:

Example:
http://www.amateurschach.de/main/_bench.html

The position I added on this "example-site" is not strong enough.
I like to create a site with around 50 - 100 better positions.

Of course I will using Cheng ... also one of my favorite engines, no doubt about it.
I have interest to use all TOP-100 engines offer UCI analyze mode.

Not for the moment, to many work during my still running FCP Tourney-2021.
FCP Tourney-2021 and FCP Tourney-2020 is a great database basic for search strong positions (later 82.000 games without resign mode). But I am searching also in chess books. I collect a very huge collection of chess books since around 3-4 years ("about me" me site on my website). Most success (good positions for "stronger chess engines") with chess books by Friedrich Chlubna, Istvan Pongo and Chess Informat (Encyclopaedia of Chess Combination). But better is to search in my one produced eng-eng material at first, in chess books a second! I think later a good mix will be available!

Never I do that in the past, so the idea is interesting for me.

Best
Frank

[mar]

ok, my minimatch ended 175-25-0 in favor of Ethereal, not a single win for Cheng. and I'm sure that with syzygy Ethereal would have won some of the draws
so - a slaughterfest just as I expected. but at least Cheng kept some dignity with a couple of draws

[Guenther]

ok, my minimatch ended 175-25-0 in favor of Ethereal, not a single win for Cheng. and I'm sure that with syzygy Ethereal would have won some of the draws
so - a slaughterfest just as I expected. but at least Cheng kept some dignity with a couple of draws :)

Mine is currently at 27-1-0 for Ethereal (I have practically resign disabled and no concurrency, thus needs a while),
good chances your bet is a double win for you.

[Guenther]

ok, my minimatch ended 175-25-0 in favor of Ethereal, not a single win for Cheng. and I'm sure that with syzygy Ethereal would have won some of the draws
so - a slaughterfest just as I expected. but at least Cheng kept some dignity with a couple of draws :)

Mine is currently at 27-1-0 for Ethereal (I have practically resign disabled and no concurrency, thus needs a while),
good chances your bet is a double win for you.

Standing now 104-9-0 still waiting/hoping for the one position with a lucky shot.
You can already prepare your adress via PM, so I can send you your prize :)

[Guenther]

ok, my minimatch ended 175-25-0 in favor of Ethereal, not a single win for Cheng. and I'm sure that with syzygy Ethereal would have won some of the draws
so - a slaughterfest just as I expected. but at least Cheng kept some dignity with a couple of draws :)

Mine is currently at 27-1-0 for Ethereal (I have practically resign disabled and no concurrency, thus needs a while),
good chances your bet is a double win for you.

Standing now 104-9-0 still waiting/hoping for the one position with a lucky shot.
You can already prepare your adress via PM, so I can send you your prize :)

Martin it happened in game 121 :)
It seems Ethereal in this single game was a victim of aggressive pruning.
Note that it already thought be before being up over +2 already in move 17!

Code: Select all

Score of Cheng_440-64 vs Ethereal_1275-64: 1 - 111 - 9 [0.045]
...      Cheng_440-64 playing White: 1 - 56 - 4  [0.049] 61
...      Cheng_440-64 playing Black: 0 - 55 - 5  [0.042] 60
...      White vs Black: 56 - 56 - 9  [0.500] 121
Elo difference: -528.9 +/- 130.0, LOS: 0.0 %, DrawRatio: 7.4 %
121 of 200 games finished.

[pgn]
[Event "Test@CuteCGdv"]
[Site "RWBC-CAPPUCCINO Win7U64 Q8200 2.33Ghz + Nvidia GT 710"]
[Date "2021.03.25"]
[Round "61"]
[White "Cheng_440-64"]
[Black "Ethereal_1275-64"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A00"]
[GameDuration "00:06:56"]
[GameEndTime "2021-03-25T09:51:57.218 Mitteleuropäische Zeit"]
[GameStartTime "2021-03-25T09:45:01.208 Mitteleuropäische Zeit"]
[Opening "Benko's Opening"]
[PlyCount "127"]
[TimeControl "40/120"]

1. g3 {book} e5 {book} 2. d3 {book} d5 {book} 3. Nf3 {book} Bd6 {book}
4. e4 {-0.19/16 3.24s} dxe4 {+0.12/19 3.46s} 5. dxe4 {-0.10/19 3.24s}
Nf6 {+0.13/21 2.10s} 6. Qe2 {-0.11/17 2.72s} Nc6 {+0.11/20 6.05s}
7. Bg2 {-0.07/19 2.97s} O-O {+0.13/21 5.38s} 8. c3 {-0.14/18 3.27s}
a5 {+0.32/20 4.03s} 9. O-O {-0.12/18 3.19s} Bc5 {+0.43/20 2.44s}
10. Nbd2 {-0.13/16 2.44s} b6 {+0.63/20 2.79s} 11. Nc4 {-0.09/16 3.09s}
Ba6 {+0.62/21 3.21s} 12. Bg5 {+0.02/17 3.31s} Qe7 {+0.57/22 2.85s}
13. b3 {-0.10/17 3.31s} Qe6 {+0.44/21 2.60s} 14. Rad1 {-0.10/17 3.31s}
Ne8 {+1.30/20 2.73s} 15. Nfd2 {-0.38/16 6.75s} Nd6 {+1.34/22 2.81s}
16. Bf3 {-0.57/17 3.17s} Nxc4 {+1.91/22 4.15s} 17. Nxc4 {-0.70/18 2.94s}
b5 {+2.07/20 2.83s} 18. Bg4 {-0.74/19 2.61s} Qg6 {+1.41/21 3.26s}
19. Be3 {-0.58/19 2.68s} Bxe3 {+1.20/21 3.27s} 20. Bf5 {-0.44/19 3.06s}
Bxf2+ {+1.24/20 2.45s} 21. Rxf2 {-0.86/21 3.67s} Qh6 {+1.64/21 4.14s}
22. Ne3 {-0.67/20 2.33s} b4 {+1.82/22 3.24s} 23. Qf3 {-0.38/18 2.99s}
Rad8 {+1.47/21 5.41s} 24. Rxd8 {-0.53/18 3.28s} Rxd8 {+1.35/20 3.08s}
25. Bc8 {+2.15/18 3.11s} Qf6 {-4.02/23 8.38s} 26. Bxa6 {+1.90/19 2.68s}
bxc3 {-4.16/22 4.52s} 27. Qe2 {+2.39/17 2.78s} Nd4 {-4.87/22 5.35s}
28. Qc4 {+2.15/18 3.63s} Nf3+ {-4.85/20 1.66s} 29. Kh1 {+2.55/20 3.35s}
c2 {-4.66/21 2.58s} 30. Qxc2 {+2.92/19 3.35s} Qxa6 {-4.61/20 2.16s}
31. Rxf3 {+3.10/18 2.70s} Rd7 {-4.89/21 3.64s} 32. Kg2 {+3.25/17 2.67s}
h6 {-5.16/19 1.63s} 33. a4 {+3.41/17 2.97s} Kh8 {-5.47/21 8.94s}
34. Nc4 {+3.67/18 2.92s} f6 {-5.75/20 1.35s} 35. Re3 {+3.83/21 3.35s}
Rd4 {-5.67/19 2.68s} 36. Qc3 {+3.83/21 3.78s} Kg8 {-5.34/18 0.93s}
37. Qxa5 {+3.88/21 3.52s} Qc6 {-5.68/18 0.81s} 38. Qe1 {+3.92/20 3.57s}
Qa8 {-5.67/19 1.05s} 39. Qf1 {+4.17/19 3.32s} Qd8 {-5.73/18 0.86s}
40. a5 {+4.01/20 4.63s} Qc8 {-5.83/16 0.38s} 41. Qf5 {+4.21/18 2.13s}
Qe8 {-6.26/22 4.67s} 42. g4 {+4.89/17 10.64s} Rd7 {-7.10/20 11.26s}
43. h4 {+4.89/19 2.83s} Rd1 {-8.30/20 7.16s} 44. Rg3 {+4.75/16 2.50s}
Kf8 {-8.22/21 12.97s} 45. g5 {+5.51/14 1.67s} Qh5 {-10.65/22 12.04s}
46. Qc8+ {+6.56/15 2.87s} Qe8 {-10.65/22 1.79s} 47. Qxc7 {+6.50/15 2.87s}
Qd8 {-12.11/21 7.03s} 48. Qc5+ {+7.04/16 2.43s} Qe7 {-14.30/22 14.53s}
49. Qxe7+ {+7.44/19 2.88s} Kxe7 {-14.87/21 3.75s} 50. gxf6+ {+7.80/20 2.85s}
gxf6 {-14.28/20 5.38s} 51. Rg7+ {+8.19/20 1.77s} Kf8 {-14.93/22 1.56s}
52. Rc7 {+8.57/21 2.92s} Ra1 {-15.54/21 8.86s} 53. Rc6 {+8.61/20 2.92s}
Ra2+ {-15.70/20 6.57s} 54. Kf3 {+9.30/20 2.92s} Ra1 {-16.26/20 6.27s}
55. a6 {+9.74/17 1.70s} Rf1+ {-16.81/19 3.87s} 56. Kg4 {+10.66/19 2.97s}
Ra1 {-16.89/21 2.11s} 57. Kh5 {+12.44/18 2.98s} Ra2 {-17.75/18 2.23s}
58. b4 {+15.52/19 2.28s} f5 {-18.22/17 1.41s} 59. Na5 {+301.92/17 3.01s}
Ra4 {-25.11/15 1.41s} 60. a7 {+M9/39 2.89s} Rxa5 {-M8/43 0.57s}
61. bxa5 {+M7/120 0.74s} Ke7 {-M6/49 0.16s} 62. a8=Q {+M5/120 0.026s}
Kf7 {-M4/73 0.19s} 63. Qb7+ {+M3/120 0.003s} Kg8 {-M2/127 0.014s}
64. Rc8# {+M1/120 0.001s, White mates} 1-0[/pgn]

[Guenther]

My match is over now, Cheng couldn't score a second win.
In case you missed Chengs' win it is with pgn in the previous post.

I consider our bet drawn :)

Code: Select all

Score of Cheng_440-64 vs Ethereal_1275-64: 1 - 185 - 14 [0.040]
...      Cheng_440-64 playing White: 1 - 91 - 8  [0.050] 100
...      Cheng_440-64 playing Black: 0 - 94 - 6  [0.030] 100
...      White vs Black: 95 - 91 - 14  [0.510] 200
Elo difference: -552.1 +/- 99.1, LOS: 0.0 %, DrawRatio: 7.0 %
200 of 200 games finished.

Player: Cheng_440-64
   "Draw by 3-fold repetition": 6
   "Draw by adjudication": 1
   "Draw by adjudication: user decision": 2
   "Draw by fifty moves rule": 3
   "Draw by insufficient mating material": 2
   "Loss: Black mates": 91
   "Loss: White mates": 94
   "Win: White mates": 1
Player: Ethereal_1275-64
   "Draw by 3-fold repetition": 6
   "Draw by adjudication": 1
   "Draw by adjudication: user decision": 2
   "Draw by fifty moves rule": 3
   "Draw by insufficient mating material": 2
   "Loss: White mates": 1
   "Win: Black mates": 91
   "Win: White mates": 94

[mar]

Martin it happened in game 121
It seems Ethereal in this single game was a victim of aggressive pruning.
Note that it already thought be before being up over +2 already in move 17!

Code: Select all

Score of Cheng_440-64 vs Ethereal_1275-64: 1 - 111 - 9 [0.045]
...      Cheng_440-64 playing White: 1 - 56 - 4  [0.049] 61
...      Cheng_440-64 playing Black: 0 - 55 - 5  [0.042] 60
...      White vs Black: 56 - 56 - 9  [0.500] 121
Elo difference: -528.9 +/- 130.0, LOS: 0.0 %, DrawRatio: 7.4 %
121 of 200 games finished.

wow, I'm impressed! a miracle
it seems one has to play more 200 games then
so, 20..Rxd8 was the blunder, right?

I consider our bet drawn

Fair enough!

[Guenther]

Martin it happened in game 121 :)
It seems Ethereal in this single game was a victim of aggressive pruning.
Note that it already thought be before being up over +2 already in move 17!

Code: Select all

Score of Cheng_440-64 vs Ethereal_1275-64: 1 - 111 - 9 [0.045]
...      Cheng_440-64 playing White: 1 - 56 - 4  [0.049] 61
...      Cheng_440-64 playing Black: 0 - 55 - 5  [0.042] 60
...      White vs Black: 56 - 56 - 9  [0.500] 121
Elo difference: -528.9 +/- 130.0, LOS: 0.0 %, DrawRatio: 7.4 %
121 of 200 games finished.

wow, I'm impressed! a miracle :)
it seems one has to play more 200 games then ;)
so, 20..Rxd8 was the blunder, right?

Yes. Here is an analysis from Ethereal 12.75 (with filled hash by walking through the game while analysing until the position, not plain FEN!)
and one can see it has an hard time to decide between Nxd8 and Rxd8?, no PV even shows the killer move Bc8! after Rd8?
(BTW the more profane Ng4! seems to win easily too)
I guess this move was simply pruned away most of the time.

Edit: It's really difficult to find a program which has a problem with this position, after more than a dozen attempts I finally gave up.
This must be a kind of Waterloo position for Ethereal, it seems...

Code: Select all

	mover viewpoint		fewer / Multi-PV setting = 1 / more
exclude: none best +tail                                          
dep	score	nodes	time	(not shown:  tbhits	knps	seldep)
 26	+1.08 	22.9M  	0:28.90	c6d8 
 26	+1.13 	18.8M  	0:23.66	c6d8 
 25	+1.03 	17.5M  	0:21.94	c6d8 e3d5 c7c5 f5d7 h6d6 f3d1 g8h8 d7h3 d8c6 h3f1 a6f1 d1f1 f7f6 f1d3 f8d8 d3e3 h8g8 g1g2 b4c3 e3c3 h7h6 f2d2 c6b4 h2h4 b4c6 d2d1 g8h7 d5e3 c6d4 c3a5 
 25	+1.19 	17.3M  	0:21.71	c6d8 
 25	+1.22 	16.6M  	0:20.87	c6d8 
 24	+1.22 	15.1M  	0:18.92	c6d8 e3d5 c7c5 f5d7 h6d6 f3d1 g8h8 d7h3 d8c6 h3f1 a6f1 d1f1 f7f6 f1c4 f8d8 f2d2 h7h6 h2h3 h8h7 d2d1 b4c3 c4c3 c6d4 c3a5 
 24	+1.22 	14.2M  	0:17.81	c6d8 
 24	+1.07 	11.8M  	0:14.69	c6d8 
 23	+1.07 	8.72M  	0:10.79	f8d8 e3d5 b4c3 f3c3 a6b7 c3c4 h6d6 f5h3 d8f8 c4b5 b7a8 h3g2 c6d4 b5a5 a8d5 e4d5 g7g6 a5e1 g8g7 e1c3 f8b8 g2h1 h7h5 h1g2 d4f5 g2e4 f5d4 
 23	+1.16 	8.53M  	0:10.56	f8d8 
 23	+1.24 	8.12M  	0:10.04	f8d8 
 23	+1.14 	7.84M  	0:09.73	f8d8 
 22	+1.04 	7.58M  	0:09.40	f8d8 e3d5 b4c3 f3c3 a6b7 c3c4 h6d6 f5h3 h7h6 h3g2 d8c8 g2h3 c8f8 h3g2 c6d4 d5c7 h6h5 c7b5 d6d7 b5d4 d7d4 c4d4 e5d4 f2d2 f8d8 d2f2 
 22	+1.10 	7.34M  	0:09.11	f8d8 
 21	+1.20 	5.05M  	0:06.25	c6d8 e3d5 a6b7 c3b4 a5b4 d5b4 h6d6 b4d5 g7g6 f5h3 f7f5 h3g2 b7d5 e4d5 e5e4 f3e3 d8f7 f2c2 f8d8 e3c5 d6e5 g2f1 d8d5 c5c7 e5d4 g1g2 f7e5 f1c4 e5c4 c7c4 g8g7 c4d4 d5d4 c2c1 
 21	+1.20 	4.96M  	0:06.16	c6d8 
 21	+1.21 	4.59M  	0:05.71	c6d8 
 20	+1.44 	2.86M  	0:03.52	c6d8 e3d5 a6b7 f3d3 h6d6 d3b5 g7g6 f5h3 b7d5 e4d5 b4c3 b5a5 c7c6 h3g2 c6d5 a5d5 d6d5 g2d5 d8e6 d5e6 f7e6 f2c2 f8f3 b3b4 g8f7 g1g2 f3d3 a2a4 f7f6 
 20	+1.30 	2.74M  	0:03.38	c6d8 
 20	+1.35 	2.56M  	0:03.16	c6d8 
 19	+1.25 	2.32M  	0:02.85	c6d8 e3d5 c7c6 d5b6 f8e8 b6d7 a6c8 d7c5 c8f5 f3f5 h6d6 c3b4 a5b4 f5d7 d6d7 c5d7 e8e7 d7c5 d8e6 
 18	+1.70 	990491	0:01.18	f8d8 f5g4 d8f8 g1g2 h6d6 e3d5 b4c3 f3c3 a6b7 g4f3 h7h6 g2g1 c6d4 c3a5 b7d5 a5d5 d6d5 e4d5 f7f5 f3g2 e5e4 f2d2 
 17	+1.91 	677308	0:00.81	f8d8 f5g4 d8f8 f2c2 h6d6 e3d5 a6b7 c2f2 b4c3 f3c3 c6d4 c3a5 f7f5 g4f3 b7d5 a5d5 d6d5 e4d5 g8f7 f3e2 e5e4 e2c4 d4f3 g1g2 
 16	+1.84 	419979	0:00.49	f8d8 f5g4 d8f8 e3d5 h6c1 g1g2 b4c3 f3c3 c1c3 d5c3 c6d4 g4e2 a6e2 c3e2 d4e6 g2f3 g7g6 f3e3 g8g7 
 15	+1.71 	235113	0:00.28	c6d8 g1g2 h6d6 g2g1 b4c3 e3d5 c7c6 d5c3 d8b7 c3a4 b7c5 a4c5 d6c5 
 14	+1.34 	204854	0:00.25	c6d8 g1g2 h6d6 c3b4 a5b4 f3d1 d8c6 e3d5 f8d8 d1h5 g7g6 h5h4 c6d4 
 13	+1.52 	43427  	0:00.04	f8d8 f5g4 d8f8 f2c2 h6d6 e3d5 d6c5 f3f2 c5f2 c2f2 a6d3 g4d7 c6b8 d7g4 d3e4 d5e7 g8h8 c3b4 a5b4 
 12	+1.82 	20965  	0:00.01	f8d8 f5g4 d8f8 f2c2 h6d6 f3f2 b4c3 c2c3 c6d4 e3f5 d4f5 e4f5 a6b7 f2c5 
 11	+1.82 	14360  	0:00.01	f8d8 f5g4 d8f8 f2c2 h6d6 e3f5 d6c5 g1g2 b4c3 c2c3 
 10	+1.55 	8515    	0:00.00	f8d8 f5g4 d8f8 f2c2 a6d3 e3f5 h6g5 f3d3 g5g4 d3d5 
  9	+1.82 	4724    	0:00.00	f8d8 f5g4 d8f8 e3d5 h6c1 g1g2 b4c3 f3c3 c1c3 d5c3 c6d4 
  8	+1.52 	1069    	0:00.00	c6d8 e3d5 h6c1 g1g2 b4c3 f3c3 c1c3 d5c3 d8c6 
  7	+1.60 	623      	0:00.00	c6d8 e3d5 h6c1 g1g2 c7c6 d5e7 g8h8 c3b4 a5b4 
  6	+1.58 	367      	0:00.00	f8d8 f5g4 d8f8 e3d5 h6c1 f3d1 
  5	+1.30 	165      	0:00.00	f8d8 f5g4 d8f8 e3d5 
  4	+1.47 	101      	0:00.00	f8d8 f5g4 h6g6 g4h5 
  3	+1.44 	52        	0:00.00	f8d8 f5g4 h6g6 
  2	+1.07 	28        	0:00.00	c6d8 c3b4 a5b4 
  1	+2.00 	4          	0:00.00	f8d8