Test Position 2

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Marc MP

Test Position 2

Post by Marc MP » Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:31 pm

[D]4q1kr/p6p/1prQPppB/4n3/4P3/2P5/PP2B2P/R5K1 w - - 0 1

Gusev-Auerbach 1946

Terry McCracken

Re: Test Position 2

Post by Terry McCracken » Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:04 pm

Marc MP wrote:[D]4q1kr/p6p/1prQPppB/4n3/4P3/2P5/PP2B2P/R5K1 w - - 0 1

Gusev-Auerbach 1946
I don't see a clear win for White :?

Qd5 appears to be best. However, Black seems to hold?

Terry

Alessandro Scotti

Re: Test Position 2

Post by Alessandro Scotti » Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:29 pm

Both Kiwi (very soon) and Hamsters (a lot later) change Qd5 for Qa3, but still without an advantage for White.

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JVMerlino
Posts: 925
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: San Francisco, California

Re: Test Position 2

Post by JVMerlino » Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:33 am

Indeed. CM9_R1 only sees a draw with Qd5 after two hours on a P4-2.4:

Code: Select all

Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
0:00	1/7	-0.87	76438		1.Qd5 Rxe6 2.Rf1 Kf7 3.Bb5 Qe7
					4.Kh1 Rd8
0:00	1/7	-0.33	115418		1.Qa3 Rxe6 2.Qxa7 Nf7 3.Bc4 Rxe4
					4.Bxf7+ Qxf7 5.Qxb6 Rg4+ 6.Kf2 Qe7
0:02	1/8	-0.37	381625		1.Qa3 Rxe6 2.Qxa7 Nf7 3.Bc4 Rxe4
					4.Bxf7+ Qxf7 5.Qxb6 g5 6.Rd1 Re8
0:03	1/9	-0.25	685940		1.Qa3 Rxe6 2.Qxa7 Nf7 3.Bc4 Rxe4
					4.Bxf7+ Qxf7 5.Qxb6 Qe6 6.Qb7 Qg4+
					7.Kf2 Re2+ 8.Kf1
0:06	1/10	-0.49	1352065		1.Qa3 Rxe6 2.Rd1 Nf7 3.Bb5 Qa8
					4.Bc4 Rxe4 5.Bd5 Rg4+ 6.Kh1
0:09	1/10	-0.33	1895834		1.Qd5 Rxe6 2.Bd1 Qc6 3.Qxc6 Rxc6
					4.Bb3+ Nc4 5.Rd1 Kf7 6.Rd7+ Ke8
					7.Rxa7 Nxb2
0:16	1/11	-0.21	3571456		1.Qd5 Rxe6 2.Bd1 Kf7 3.Bb3 Qd7
					4.Qxd7+ Nxd7 5.Rf1 Rc8 6.Bg5 a6
					7.Bxe6+ Kxe6
0:34	1/12	-0.16	7776682		1.Qd5 Rxe6 2.Bd1 Kf7 3.Bb3 Qd7
					4.Qxd7+ Nxd7 5.Rd1 Ne5 6.Bf4 Rc8
					7.Bxe5 fxe5 8.Bxe6+ Kxe6
1:25	1/13	-0.30	20018027	1.Qd5 Rxe6 2.Bd1 Kf7 3.Bb3 Qd7
					4.Rd1 Qxd5 5.Bxd5 Rc8 6.Bf4 Ke7
					7.Bxe6 Kxe6 8.Bxe5 Kxe5
1:51	1/13	-0.12	25625650	1.Qa3 Rxe6 2.Qxa7 Nf7 3.Bc4 Rxe4
					4.Bxf7+ Qxf7 5.Qxb6 Qe6 6.Qxe6+
					Rxe6 7.a4 Kf7 8.a5 Re2 9.b4 Ke6
					10.Bf4
3:43	2/14	-0.24	52978251	1.Qa3 Rxe6 2.Qxa7 Nf7 3.Bc4 Rxe4
					4.Bxf7+ Qxf7 5.Qxb6 Qe6 6.Qxe6+
					Rxe6 7.a4 Kf7 8.a5 Re2 9.a6 Rxb2
					10.a7 Ra8 11.Be3
8:37	2/14	-0.07	127468385	1.Qd4 Rxe6 2.Rf1 Kf7 3.Bd1 Qb5
					4.Bb3 Re8 5.Bf4 Kg7 6.Bxe6 Rxe6
					7.Qd5 Qc5+ 8.Qxc5 bxc5 9.Bxe5 Rxe5
15:44	3/15	0.00	224586430	1.Qd4 Rxe6 2.Rf1 Kf7 3.Bd1 Qb5
					4.Bb3 Re8 5.Rf2 Ng4 6.Rf3 Ne5 7.Rf2
44:49	4/16	-0.01	661990201	1.Qd4 Rxe6 2.Rf1 Kf7 3.Bd1 Qb5
					4.Bb3 Re8 5.Rf2 Qc5 6.Bf4 Qxd4
					7.cxd4 Nd3 8.Rf3 Nxb2 9.Bxe6+ Kxe6
					10.Bc7
2:09:32	5/17	0.05	2032283189	1.Qd4 Rxe6 2.Rf1 Kf7 3.Bd1 Qb5
					4.Bb3 Re8 5.Bf4 Kg7 6.Bxe6 Rxe6
					7.Qd5 Qe8 8.Rd1 Qe7 9.Bxe5 Rxe5
jm

Marc MP

Solution

Post by Marc MP » Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:57 am

This one is difficult for a computer, but easy (when you saw the solution!) for a human. After 1.Qxe5! fxe5 2. Rf1! black is completely tied down due to the mate threat on f8. White needs only to manoever its bishop on the b3-g8 diagonal (to create further mate threat when the e6 pawn will move) and create a passed pawn on the Q-side, push it and win! Here is my humble effort (!) against Rybka 1.0 Beta, 5min each:

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "1946.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Gusev (Marc)"]
[Black "Auerbach (Rybka 1.0 Beta)"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Opening ""]
[Setup "1"]
[FEN "4q1kr/p6p/1prQPppB/4n3/4P3/2P5/PP2B2P/R5K1 w - - 0 0"]

{}
1. Qxe5 fxe5 {4,24/14 8.2 } 2. Rf1 Rc7 {5,28/13 10.5 } 3. Bd1 Re7 {3,10/14 11.6 }
4. Bb3 b5 {3,13/14 14.1 } 5. Bd5 a6 {2,59/14 8.2 } 6. b3 a5 {2,66/14 10.6 } 7. c4
bxc4 {2,55/13 9.4 } 8. bxc4 a4 {2,64/13 5.8 } 9. a3 Qc8 {0,00/14 6.0 } 10. Kg2
Qd8 {-C -116/16 01:00.7 } 11. c5 Qc8 {-C -116/22 0.1 } 12. c6 Qd8 {-C -116/21 0.1
} 13. c7 Rxc7 {-C -116/69 0.0 } 14. e7+ Qxd5 {0,00/1 0.0 } 15. exd5 Rxe7 {-C
-116/27 0.0 } 16. Rf8# 1-0

Cubeman
Posts: 644
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:11 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Solution

Post by Cubeman » Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:56 am

Mark Moisans approach seems to work.The creation of a passed Queenside pawn seems to decide.

Terry McCracken

Re: Solution

Post by Terry McCracken » Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:49 am

Marc MP wrote:This one is difficult for a computer, but easy (when you saw the solution!) for a human. After 1.Qxe5! fxe5 2. Rf1! black is completely tied down due to the mate threat on f8. White needs only to manoever its bishop on the b3-g8 diagonal (to create further mate threat when the e6 pawn will move) and create a passed pawn on the Q-side, push it and win! Here is my humble effort (!) against Rybka 1.0 Beta, 5min each:

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "1946.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Gusev (Marc)"]
[Black "Auerbach (Rybka 1.0 Beta)"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Opening ""]
[Setup "1"]
[FEN "4q1kr/p6p/1prQPppB/4n3/4P3/2P5/PP2B2P/R5K1 w - - 0 0"]

{}
1. Qxe5 fxe5 {4,24/14 8.2 } 2. Rf1 Rc7 {5,28/13 10.5 } 3. Bd1 Re7 {3,10/14 11.6 }
4. Bb3 b5 {3,13/14 14.1 } 5. Bd5 a6 {2,59/14 8.2 } 6. b3 a5 {2,66/14 10.6 } 7. c4
bxc4 {2,55/13 9.4 } 8. bxc4 a4 {2,64/13 5.8 } 9. a3 Qc8 {0,00/14 6.0 } 10. Kg2
Qd8 {-C -116/16 01:00.7 } 11. c5 Qc8 {-C -116/22 0.1 } 12. c6 Qd8 {-C -116/21 0.1
} 13. c7 Rxc7 {-C -116/69 0.0 } 14. e7+ Qxd5 {0,00/1 0.0 } 15. exd5 Rxe7 {-C
-116/27 0.0 } 16. Rf8# 1-0
Very good, I did look at this but didn't analize it too deeply :oops:

Terry

Karol Majewski

Re: Solution

Post by Karol Majewski » Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:44 am

OK, this is very intresting, but what about the line 1.Qxe5 fxe5 2.Rf1 Qe7 and now if 3.Bd1 then b5 4.Bb3 Rc4 and black has space to repeat Qd8-e8-d8-e8.

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JVMerlino
Posts: 925
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: San Francisco, California

Re: Solution

Post by JVMerlino » Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:40 pm

Yep, that MIGHT hold. Not sure, but here's the continuation I see:

1.Qxe5 fxe5 2.Rf1 Qe7 3.Bd1 b5 4.Bb3 Rc4 5.Kg2 {avoiding check on c5} a6 6.Bxc4 bxc4 7.b3 cxb3 8.axb3 Qe8 9.c4 Qe7

[D]6kr/4q2p/p3P1pB/4p3/2P1P3/1P6/6KP/5R2 w - - 0 10

and now The King sees nothing better than a draw.

jm

Ignacio
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:15 pm

Re: Solution

Post by Ignacio » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:13 pm

Hi John,

10.b4 wins.

Best,
Ignacio.

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