Hippo Lite, what's really going on?

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Christopher Conkie
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Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on?

Post by Christopher Conkie » Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:44 pm

Sergei Markoff wrote:
Christopher Conkie wrote:Do you agree with Osipov's opinion that Ippolit is a disassembled Rybka?
I think the Ippolit is the joke by Vasik or by people that Vasik provided by his sources.

I just looked at Ippolit sources, it looks clearly like a joke. Some clever people laughing on some cospiracy-theory moroons. I'm also enjoying throlling here because today I don't beleive in computer chess community any more.
I hope you do believe in them. They need to believe in you or you will not sell much.

Let's call a truce on it. I'm 100% certain it's not a joke, this much is certain.

The very fact that you need to correct basic problems in an engine that strong implies a lot.

You think it is a deliberate ruse? I think you could even ask Gerd Isenberg if it was. He was around when the guy posted in the chessprogramming wiki. We watched it all (as he knows).

See here........

http://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/ ... s/12040041

This is the last remnant of what was there.

You think Vas would do that to Gerd and the community?

Come on Sergei.....get real please.....

Seriously, no hard feelings but I disagree completely.

Christopher

Michael Sherwin
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Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on?

Post by Michael Sherwin » Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:54 pm

Christopher Conkie wrote:
Sergei Markoff wrote:
Christopher Conkie wrote:If those two sides are in agreement, then we can call it one sided.
It's interesting to know more about SmarThink. Looks like you're more informed about it than me.
"I suspect that the comment of Sergei Markoff that Strelka 3 is stronger than Rybka 3 is wrong"

By your associations, so shall you be known.....

Anyway Osipov is saying that Ippolit is disassembled too (and he should know)

That has to be positive from him....no?

Or do you disagree with his opinion?

Christopher
My very last response in this thread is:

Of course it is disassembled. The web site says so! But the reason given is to change it from one programming language to another. Then I read that some of the symbols are misleading. Well that can happen when the conversion from Russian language C code to English C code was done.

The argument that it is a Rybka clone just because it was disassembled/decompiled is absolutely meaningless.
Regards,
Mike

Sergei Markoff

Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on?

Post by Sergei Markoff » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:03 pm

Christopher Conkie wrote:I hope you do believe in them. They need to believe in you or you will not sell much.
Do you really think that my not-beleiving can change anything with SmarThink sales? :)
There are no such a thing "computer chess community". God died. There are a lot of people that likes computer chess, someone of them are clever and polite, someone no. I prefer first ones. But the community is more than people themselves. But today there are nothing more, only anger, false and time-consuming rubbish and empty talks. I prefer to communicate with some people if I see that they are really interested in knowledge and if they want to discuss some ideas. I shared my sources with some programmers and some programmers shared their sources with me. May be it's some proto-community, but it's exactly not CCC, sorry.
Christopher Conkie wrote:Let's call a truce on it. I'm 100% certain it's not a joke, this much is certain.
If someone beleives in 100% probability I have nothing to say to him.

Christopher Conkie
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Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on?

Post by Christopher Conkie » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:03 pm

Michael Sherwin wrote:
Christopher Conkie wrote:
Sergei Markoff wrote:
Christopher Conkie wrote:If those two sides are in agreement, then we can call it one sided.
It's interesting to know more about SmarThink. Looks like you're more informed about it than me.
"I suspect that the comment of Sergei Markoff that Strelka 3 is stronger than Rybka 3 is wrong"

By your associations, so shall you be known.....

Anyway Osipov is saying that Ippolit is disassembled too (and he should know)

That has to be positive from him....no?

Or do you disagree with his opinion?

Christopher
My very last response in this thread is:

Of course it is disassembled. The web site says so! But the reason given is to change it from one programming language to another. Then I read that some of the symbols are misleading. Well that can happen when the conversion from Russian language C code to English C code was done.

The argument that it is a Rybka clone just because it was disassembled/decompiled is absolutely meaningless.
Unless you ask many top programmers and the programmer of Rybka.

What you ask is.....

What is this?

When all of them come back to you and say, it looks distinctly like a disassembled Rybka with bits cut out......

What would you say it was?

Romichess?

:)

Christopher

Btw I hope you are feeling better Michael.

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michiguel
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Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on?

Post by michiguel » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:06 pm

Henrik Dinesen wrote:
Christopher Conkie wrote:
rvida wrote:
Christopher Conkie wrote:
WinPooh wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote:I must say the only link I see between Rybka 3 and this Ippolit thing is the playing strength.
Didn't you know that having playing strength above 3100 is copyrighted? :D
Be careful then because we are expecting sudden improvement in Greko, Bison, Wildcat, SmarThink and Strelka soon.........

In fact, it has already started with Bison.

We call it "futility programming".

:-)

Christopher
Whats wrong with Bison? Or Greko? Seems like anti-russian prejudice...
LOL no, it is only that that is who seems to not want to believe.

I can confirm to you that somewhere on the web the Bison author is saying this.......
Думается мне, что через год-полтора уже не Рыбка будет сильнейшей программой. Просто Васику ну очень трудно будет что-то новое еще придумать, а другие авторы воспользуются кладязем знаний Ипполитом.
And this.......
Тут можно целую философскую тему открывать. С одной стороны шахматное программирование многими воспринимается именно как соревнование интеллектов, а не как умение передирать все у соперников, и я с этим согласен. Но многие программисты, достигнув определенного уровня в развитии программы, просто забивают на это дело, отчасти из-за того, что не могут стать первыми (а вы как думали, человеческое желание быть лучшим никуда не делось). Можно вспомнить авторов Заппы и Наума. Тут-то Ипполит идет только на пользу. Кстати, выход Фрукта позволил сделать большой скачок в силе программ, что конечному потребителю только плюс.
And finally the classic..............
Мне в это совсем не верится В исходниках есть очень "вкусные" моменты, которые 90% авторов топовых программ захочет иметь и у себя, я вот уже приглядел интересную идейку насчет Futility Pruning
OK?

:D

Christopher
Ok Chris - thanks for laugh! :D
You hit the nail there, and nearly mirrored some of my thoughts.

Why isn't there any scottish or danish cloners? Maybe I should clone some OC engine, release it as a clone of a commercial engine, and pretend to be Isac Dinesen...
What????
Scottish are famous for cloning!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roslin_Institute

:-)
Miguel


Ok, sorry for the ramblings ;)

Christopher Conkie
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Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on?

Post by Christopher Conkie » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:09 pm

Sergei Markoff wrote:
If someone beleives in 100% probability I have nothing to say to him.
The link is 100% fact.

You are very good at ignoring facts. I showed you a link.

What do you think of what is written there?

Christopher

Sergei Markoff

Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on?

Post by Sergei Markoff » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:15 pm

Christopher Conkie wrote:The link is 100% fact.

You are very good at ignoring facts. I showed you a link.

What do you think of what is written there?
I don't know how this link can prove that Ippolit is not a Vasik's joke.

Christopher Conkie
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Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on?

Post by Christopher Conkie » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:18 pm

Sergei Markoff wrote:
Christopher Conkie wrote:The link is 100% fact.

You are very good at ignoring facts. I showed you a link.

What do you think of what is written there?
I don't know how this link can prove that Ippolit is not a Vasik's joke.
So you do think Vas would do this as a joke?

If you say so Sergei, if you say so.....

:lol:

Christopher

Sergei Markoff

Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on?

Post by Sergei Markoff » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:25 pm

Christopher Conkie wrote:So you do think Vas would do this as a joke?
I think yes. The whole Ippolit site looks like a joke and the engine itself is a joke. After the Strelka a lot of people have the prejudice against russian programmers. So, Ippolit site with a links to Vladimir Lenin and so on looks really funny, the autors had a good sence of humor.
In other hand there are some russian people in Convekta...

I think it's the only reasonable idea, not some magic reverse-engeneering.

Christopher Conkie
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Re: Hippo Lite, what's really going on?

Post by Christopher Conkie » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:31 pm

Sergei Markoff wrote:
Christopher Conkie wrote:So you do think Vas would do this as a joke?
I think yes. The whole Ippolit site looks like a joke and the engine itself is a joke. After the Strelka a lot of people have the prejudice against russian programmers. So, Ippolit site with a links to Vladimir Lenin and so on looks really funny, the autors had a good sence of humor.
In other hand there are some russian people in Convekta...

I think it's the only reasonable idea, not some magic reverse-engeneering.
Well I have no prejudice against you or any other Russian.

Most importantly.......

http://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/ ... s/12040041

Remember that 2 == 1 ply

Code: Select all

Cut node reduction: 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,
8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9,
 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10,
10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10,
10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10
All node reduction: 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 5,
5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6,
 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7
, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7,
7
Could you tell me which program does this please?

Christopher

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