Doch 1.3.1

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mcostalba
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Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:17 pm

Re: Doch 1.3.1 - what happens

Post by mcostalba » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:52 am

Paloma wrote:Oh my god,
what happends last time in Engine-development?
First the issue with Stockfish 1.6, 1.6.1., 1.6 smooth scaling (one and two) 1.6.2,
now with Doch 1.3, 1.3.1, 1.3.2

The elos goes up, the quality goes down?

See also here http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... 92&t=31512

But this is not clear, as without the file sample.per I get another output.
I answer for the first case.

We should always try hard to avoid releasing an engine with bugs, but although we try to be extremely careful and we test the release candidate in many ways and for many days before to release we cannot assume that release is bug free.

For engines downloaded and tried thousand of times by thousand of people it is not so unusual to find a bug after release. Although this is sad, I think the "quality" here is to readily and sooner then later to release a .1 maintenance release. It is not quality IMHO to act as if there are no bugs and don't release anything until the next major (as it is not so uncommon even among commercials).

Add to this also the technical limitation, typical of chess engine community, of not (public) release a beta version of a new engine but directly release the final version. This is a bit odd as a software practice but has its motivations in the specificity of how this software is used when released: typically is tested, tried against competitors, sometime tried in tournaments and so on. All activities that would deem a beta cycle release inconvenient and messy especially for testers.

Paloma
Posts: 634
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: Doch 1.3.1 - what happens

Post by Paloma » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:58 pm

Yes, I understand, I noticed in only a few days 3 release from each engine confuse many user. I know _smooth scaling_ was not your part.
Despite everything great work from you and other developer.

Thanks again.

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David Dahlem
Posts: 900
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:06 pm

Re: Doch 1.3.1

Post by David Dahlem » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:46 pm

Mike S. wrote:The 32 bit version 1.3.2 does not work in Vista-32, in Arena 201 or Fritz 10. Apparently, the engine doesn't start it's calculations (no Doch process visible in the Process Explorer). My cpu is Intel D945 (~dual P4).

Version 1.3 works bascially, with the exception that it crashed in Fritz after I removed the filename of a test.per from the engine properties. Can that input field be empty, or does it have to contain "<empty>" if I don't want to specify a custom .per file?

Also, the console mode seems not to work with Doch 1.3/1.3.2 in Vista 32 bit. The console window appears, but does not accept or display any keyboard input. I don't know if this is a missing feature or another bug.

Anyway, thanks to the programmers and compilers! I understand that there is big effort behind it, to make engines run so smoothly as they usually do. From my viewpoint, no need to hurry whatsoever. The price-performance ratio is unrivaled. :mrgreen:
The 32 bit version 1.3.2 works fine for me in WinXP and Arena 1.99. The personality filename must be specified as well as the extension, for example "sample.per" or "test.per".

Sample game, from the start position, default settings -

[Event "Zappa - Doch"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2010.01.05"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Doch 1.3.2"]
[Black "Zappa Mexico II"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A09"]
[Opening "Reti Opening"]
[Time "23:26:26"]
[Variation "Advance Variation, Anglo-Polish Attack"]
[TimeControl "40/300:40/300:40/300"]
[Termination "normal"]

{C:\Arena\PgnBook\Basic.pgn 3/31 (?-?, ?, ????, *)} 1.Nf3 {+0.18/13} d5 {-0.14/12} 2.c4 {+0.42/13} d4 {+0.08/11} 3.b4 {+0.40/14} c5 {+0.10/11} 4.bxc5 {+0.27/13} Nc6 {+0.19/13} 5.d3 {+0.29/14} e5 {+0.38/12} 6.Qa4 {+0.30/13} Bd7 {+0.33/12} 7.Nbd2 {+0.32/12} Nf6 {+0.40/12} 8.g4 {+0.18/12} Nxg4 {+0.61/11} 9.Ne4 {+0.22/12} f5 {+1.00/12} 10.Nd6+ {-0.13/9} Bxd6 {+1.00/11} 11.cxd6 {-0.16/10} e4 {+1.00/11} 12.h3 {-0.90/12} Nxf2 {+1.14/12} 13.Bg5 {-1.00/13} Ne5 {+1.38/12} 14.Nxe5 {-0.76/15} Bxa4 {+0.97/12} 15.Bxd8 {-0.74/11} Nxh1 {+0.97/12} 16.Bh4 {-0.71/14} Rg8 {+0.96/12} 17.Bg5 {-0.48/14} Ng3 {+1.04/12} 18.Bg2 {-0.40/14} h6 {+1.07/12} 19.Be7 {-0.45/15} Rc8 {+1.02/12} 20.Kf2 {-0.61/14} Nh5 {+1.16/12} 21.dxe4 {-0.91/14} Nf4 {+1.17/12} 22.exf5 {-0.86/14} Nxg2 {+1.69/11} 23.Kxg2 {-0.93/12} Rc5 {+1.69/11} 24.Nf3 {-0.95/15} Rxc4 {+1.65/12} 25.Kg3 {-0.84/14} Bd7 {+1.50/11} 26.Kf4 {-0.62/14} Ra4 {+1.42/11} 27.Ne5 {-0.45/13} Bc6 {+1.03/11} 28.Nxc6 {-0.52/13} bxc6 {+1.03/10} 29.Rb1 {-0.47/14} Kd7 {+0.87/11} 30.Ke5 {-0.48/15} Rxa2 {+1.02/11} 31.Rb7+ {+0.77/16} Kc8 {+1.22/6} 32.Rc7+ {+1.10/16} Kb8 {+1.24/7} 33.Ke6 {+1.11/17} Rxe2+ {-1.02/10} 34.Kf7 {+1.35/17} Rh8 {-1.02/10} 35.Rxc6 {+1.34/16} Re5 {-0.90/11} 36.Kxg7 {+0.93/15} Rc8 {-1.27/12} 37.Rxc8+ {+0.95/15} Kxc8 {-1.27/12} 38.f6 {+0.63/18} Rf5 {-1.27/12} 39.f7 {+1.28/20} Rxf7+ {-1.27/11} 40.Kxf7 {+1.61/18} Kd7 {-1.27/11} 41.Bf6 {+3.12/23} d3 {-4.18/15} 42.Bc3 {+3.47/25} Kxd6 {-4.90/17} 43.h4 {+3.65/26} Kc6 {-4.90/17} 44.h5 {+3.68/26} Kb5 {-4.90/17} 45.Ke6 {+3.87/26} a5 {-5.42/18} 46.Kd5 {+6.30/28} a4 {-5.57/18} 47.Kd4 {+6.33/29} Kc6 {-6.70/18} 48.Kxd3 {+6.33/23} Kd7 {-12.45/18} 49.Bg7 {+5.03/24} Ke7 {-12.45/18} 50.Bxh6 {+6.36/28} Kf6 {-6.70/16} 51.Kc4 {+6.48/28} Kf5 {-7.10/17} 52.Bd2 {+6.48/27} a3 {-10.18/17} 53.Kb3 {+6.35/27} a2 {-15.00/18} 54.Kb2 {+6.31/26} Ke4 {-14.99/17} 55.h6 {+6.50/17} Kd3 {-M13/16} 56.Ba5 {+M16/17} a1=Q+ {-M11/16} {Black resigns} 1-0

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Don
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:27 pm

Re: Doch 1.3.1

Post by Don » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:13 pm

I want to make all of this work on any UCI interface. I am basically a unix person so I'm not very clear on certain windows glitches and/or practices. I had forgotten that in windows, the extension to a file is often assumed, this is much less so on unix.

The personality file can have any name and any extension and it is not assumed or put there for you. I use ".per" just as a convention to organize what I'm doing and so that I know at a glance it is a personality file.

Also, the program does not require there to be a personality file and it knows nothing about sample.per. After I put in the personality support in Doch I later made the decision to put in a sample file in the distribution and sample.per was an arbitrary name I made up.

I asked Jim Ablett to make yet another version that has better error checking and sends the info string command to the user interface to reassure the user that the file loaded and also to inform the user of how many parameters were actually loaded (and the total expected.) I don't want to release that version until I know it's right. So if anyone with windows wants to help check it out, assuming Jim is willing to continue to go to the trouble and produces yet another version, let us know.

Alternately, I can give you 32 and 64 bit versions that are compiled with mingw but these compiles are not as fast as the Jim Ablett versions. I'm not sure solving problems with mingw always translates to the JA version.

Don Dailey


David Dahlem wrote:
Mike S. wrote:The 32 bit version 1.3.2 does not work in Vista-32, in Arena 201 or Fritz 10. Apparently, the engine doesn't start it's calculations (no Doch process visible in the Process Explorer). My cpu is Intel D945 (~dual P4).

Version 1.3 works bascially, with the exception that it crashed in Fritz after I removed the filename of a test.per from the engine properties. Can that input field be empty, or does it have to contain "<empty>" if I don't want to specify a custom .per file?

Also, the console mode seems not to work with Doch 1.3/1.3.2 in Vista 32 bit. The console window appears, but does not accept or display any keyboard input. I don't know if this is a missing feature or another bug.

Anyway, thanks to the programmers and compilers! I understand that there is big effort behind it, to make engines run so smoothly as they usually do. From my viewpoint, no need to hurry whatsoever. The price-performance ratio is unrivaled. :mrgreen:
The 32 bit version 1.3.2 works fine for me in WinXP and Arena 1.99. The personality filename must be specified as well as the extension, for example "sample.per" or "test.per".

Sample game, from the start position, default settings -

[Event "Zappa - Doch"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2010.01.05"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Doch 1.3.2"]
[Black "Zappa Mexico II"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A09"]
[Opening "Reti Opening"]
[Time "23:26:26"]
[Variation "Advance Variation, Anglo-Polish Attack"]
[TimeControl "40/300:40/300:40/300"]
[Termination "normal"]

{C:\Arena\PgnBook\Basic.pgn 3/31 (?-?, ?, ????, *)} 1.Nf3 {+0.18/13} d5 {-0.14/12} 2.c4 {+0.42/13} d4 {+0.08/11} 3.b4 {+0.40/14} c5 {+0.10/11} 4.bxc5 {+0.27/13} Nc6 {+0.19/13} 5.d3 {+0.29/14} e5 {+0.38/12} 6.Qa4 {+0.30/13} Bd7 {+0.33/12} 7.Nbd2 {+0.32/12} Nf6 {+0.40/12} 8.g4 {+0.18/12} Nxg4 {+0.61/11} 9.Ne4 {+0.22/12} f5 {+1.00/12} 10.Nd6+ {-0.13/9} Bxd6 {+1.00/11} 11.cxd6 {-0.16/10} e4 {+1.00/11} 12.h3 {-0.90/12} Nxf2 {+1.14/12} 13.Bg5 {-1.00/13} Ne5 {+1.38/12} 14.Nxe5 {-0.76/15} Bxa4 {+0.97/12} 15.Bxd8 {-0.74/11} Nxh1 {+0.97/12} 16.Bh4 {-0.71/14} Rg8 {+0.96/12} 17.Bg5 {-0.48/14} Ng3 {+1.04/12} 18.Bg2 {-0.40/14} h6 {+1.07/12} 19.Be7 {-0.45/15} Rc8 {+1.02/12} 20.Kf2 {-0.61/14} Nh5 {+1.16/12} 21.dxe4 {-0.91/14} Nf4 {+1.17/12} 22.exf5 {-0.86/14} Nxg2 {+1.69/11} 23.Kxg2 {-0.93/12} Rc5 {+1.69/11} 24.Nf3 {-0.95/15} Rxc4 {+1.65/12} 25.Kg3 {-0.84/14} Bd7 {+1.50/11} 26.Kf4 {-0.62/14} Ra4 {+1.42/11} 27.Ne5 {-0.45/13} Bc6 {+1.03/11} 28.Nxc6 {-0.52/13} bxc6 {+1.03/10} 29.Rb1 {-0.47/14} Kd7 {+0.87/11} 30.Ke5 {-0.48/15} Rxa2 {+1.02/11} 31.Rb7+ {+0.77/16} Kc8 {+1.22/6} 32.Rc7+ {+1.10/16} Kb8 {+1.24/7} 33.Ke6 {+1.11/17} Rxe2+ {-1.02/10} 34.Kf7 {+1.35/17} Rh8 {-1.02/10} 35.Rxc6 {+1.34/16} Re5 {-0.90/11} 36.Kxg7 {+0.93/15} Rc8 {-1.27/12} 37.Rxc8+ {+0.95/15} Kxc8 {-1.27/12} 38.f6 {+0.63/18} Rf5 {-1.27/12} 39.f7 {+1.28/20} Rxf7+ {-1.27/11} 40.Kxf7 {+1.61/18} Kd7 {-1.27/11} 41.Bf6 {+3.12/23} d3 {-4.18/15} 42.Bc3 {+3.47/25} Kxd6 {-4.90/17} 43.h4 {+3.65/26} Kc6 {-4.90/17} 44.h5 {+3.68/26} Kb5 {-4.90/17} 45.Ke6 {+3.87/26} a5 {-5.42/18} 46.Kd5 {+6.30/28} a4 {-5.57/18} 47.Kd4 {+6.33/29} Kc6 {-6.70/18} 48.Kxd3 {+6.33/23} Kd7 {-12.45/18} 49.Bg7 {+5.03/24} Ke7 {-12.45/18} 50.Bxh6 {+6.36/28} Kf6 {-6.70/16} 51.Kc4 {+6.48/28} Kf5 {-7.10/17} 52.Bd2 {+6.48/27} a3 {-10.18/17} 53.Kb3 {+6.35/27} a2 {-15.00/18} 54.Kb2 {+6.31/26} Ke4 {-14.99/17} 55.h6 {+6.50/17} Kd3 {-M13/16} 56.Ba5 {+M16/17} a1=Q+ {-M11/16} {Black resigns} 1-0

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Mike S.
Posts: 1460
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:33 am

Re: Doch 1.3.1

Post by Mike S. » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:24 pm

The personality filename must be specified as well as the extension, for example "sample.per" or "test.per".
Thanks. I tried it once more but it doesn't work. I think Arena read the uci_about string correctly, which appears in the enigne output window. But as soon as the engine should start to calculate, it seems to crash somehow, also with a .per file correctly specified.

So it is either a Vista(32) problem, or some kind of individual problem. But version 1.3 works fine here.

Edit: Carlos' posting he just wrote, suggests that it could be a problem related to the Pentium D cpu we both have. Maybe it has to do with cpu related compiler options or the like, different to 1.3?

P.S. After 13 moves of your test game, both queens, three knights and the rook h1 were en prise at the same time! :mrgreen: That seems unique:

[D]r2qk2r/pp1b2pp/3P4/4npB1/Q1Ppp3/3P1N1P/P3Pn2/R3KB1R w KQkq - 0 14
Last edited by Mike S. on Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:37 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Regards, Mike

Carlos777
Posts: 615
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:09 pm

Re: Doch 1.3.1

Post by Carlos777 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:24 pm

Doch 1.3.2 w32 by JA does not work here either on Arena 2.0.1.

Pentium D - Windows XP sp2 32 bits.

Using or not the personality file does not make a difference. It just does not work.

Carlos

Paloma
Posts: 634
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: Doch 1.3.1

Post by Paloma » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:31 pm

Hi Don,

have you noticed the 64-bit version to appear as >DOCH32 1.3.2 JA< in the Engine window?

Carlos777
Posts: 615
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:09 pm

Re: Doch 1.3.1

Post by Carlos777 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:39 pm

Mike S. wrote: Thanks. I tried it once more but it doesn't work. I think Arena read the uci_about string correctly, which appears in the enigne output window. But as soon as the engine should start to calculate, it seems to crash somehow, also with a .per file correctly specified.

So it is either a Vista(32) problem, or some kind of individual problem. But version 1.3 works fine here.

Edit: Carlos' posting he just wrote, suggests that it could be a problem related to the Pentium D cpu we both have. Maybe it has to do with cpu related compiler options or the like, different to 1.3?
Might be. OTOH, this new version works fine for me:

Here is a Windows 32 bit compile of Doch 1.3.2 for you to test.
It is compiled using the Linux src code & Gcc-cygwin compiler.

Speed in comparable to Intel 32 bit compile - maybe slightly slower.

Download:
http://www.mediafire.com/?gfvlyf1bgdw

Jim.
Regards,
Carlos

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Graham Banks
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Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: Doch 1.3.1

Post by Graham Banks » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:55 pm

Is anybody having a problem in any GUI other than Arena?
Fritz and ChessGUI seem to be fine? Not sure about Shredder or others.
Definitely stronger than Doch 1.2.
My email addresses:
gbanksnz at gmail.com
gbanksnz at yahoo.co.nz

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Don
Posts: 5106
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:27 pm

Re: Doch 1.3.1

Post by Don » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:58 pm

Graham Banks wrote:Is anybody having a problem in any GUI other than Arena?
Fritz and ChessGUI seem to be fine? Not sure about Shredder or others.
Definitely stronger than Doch 1.2.
Just please don't load any personalities, even the default one.

How must stronger are you showing now? I'm sure the error margin is high, but I'm curious.

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