Fabien's open letter to the community

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: hgm, Harvey Williamson, bob

User avatar
Dr.Wael Deeb
Posts: 9635
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:44 pm
Location: Amman,Jordan

Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:42 pm

Robert Flesher wrote:
yanquis1972 wrote:
Robert Flesher wrote:To add some humor to this situation can someone please link this thread to the Rybka forum. I'd like to know how many milliseconds it will last. :lol:
has been linked for some time -- http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... ?tid=20625

Thanks John, the picture of playing chess from behind bars really had me laughing!
Programming from behind bars is even more fun :lol:

:wink:
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

Chan Rasjid
Posts: 567
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:47 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Chan Rasjid » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:43 pm

I am honest :evil:

Honestly, does anyone know what the final conclusion is :D

And, also, what was the question :oops:

Please summarize for those who are just average in intelligence.

Rasjid
Don't believe when you're told "There's no free lunch!" There is Linux.

User avatar
JuLieN
Posts: 2945
Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 10:16 am
Location: Nantes (France)
Contact:

Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by JuLieN » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:46 pm

Chan Rasjid wrote: Please summarize for those who are just average in intelligence.
Youri : my Strelka is Rybka.
Fabien : This Strelka is my Fruit!
Bob&all. : This Rybka is this Fruit.
"The only good bug is a dead bug." (Don Dailey)
Image [Blog: http://tinyurl.com/predateur ] [Facebook: http://tinyurl.com/fbpredateur ] [MacEngines: http://tinyurl.com/macengines ]

User avatar
Dr.Wael Deeb
Posts: 9635
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:44 pm
Location: Amman,Jordan

Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:48 pm

JuLieN wrote:
Chan Rasjid wrote: Please summarize for those who are just average in intelligence.
Youri : my Strelka is Rybka.
Fabien : This Strelka is my Fruit!
Bob&all. : This Rybka is this Fruit.
Julien,you've managed short circuit my brain elctrical system :?

:wink:
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

User avatar
Laskos
Posts: 7888
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Laskos » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:49 pm

SzG wrote:
Laskos wrote:
SzG wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote: Proof that Rybka is a Fruit derivative has been presented since Rybka 1.0 beta, though some people will never accept any amount of proof as adequate.

For 3 years this controversy has not been enough to demand of you to remove Rybka from your lists ?

You may consider including Houdini and co instead of removing Fruit clones.

Matthias.
Hi Matthias,

Controversy means that anything can be right. When there is controversy among experts, there is confusion among the masses. When confused, you either stand still or move. Your choice, either can be right.
Nice, while confused, Gabor has two states:

1. Gabor is confused, test Chessbase confusing engines
2. Gabor is confused, ban free confusing engines

Kai
And if I do the opposite, someone else will write me who is equally convinced he is right. Actually, it has happened many times.
Please, could you do randomly, as you imply, the opposite, for one month, along with all your buddies? Some pick randomly Chessbase things, others free things, I understand :lol:.

Kai

User avatar
Matthias Gemuh
Posts: 3233
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:10 am
Contact:

Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Matthias Gemuh » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:55 pm

JuLieN wrote:
Chan Rasjid wrote: Please summarize for those who are just average in intelligence.
Youri : my Strelka is Rybka.
Fabien : This Strelka is my Fruit!
Bob&all. : This Rybka is this Fruit.
Vas: This Strelka is my Rybka!


Conclusion: Fruit -> Rybka -> Strelka.
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
http://www.chess.hylogic.de

bob
Posts: 20340
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Birmingham, AL

Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by bob » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:58 pm

I've communicated with Fabien and he now has an active CCC account. I'd suggest that we try to have a civil discourse and let him explain his interpretation of what has happened. I will alert the other mods to keep a close eye on these threads so that they don't get out of control. I doubt you will hear anything new or surprising, but it will be coming from a new source. What you believe is up to you, of course.

bob
Posts: 20340
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Birmingham, AL

Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by bob » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:59 pm

Houdini wrote:
Tord Romstad wrote:My good friend Fabien Letouzey, author of Fruit, asked me to post the following message for him:
Is there a particular reason for Fabien not posting this message himself?
The best advice for Fabien would be to settle this matter directly with Vas Rajlich, chess forums are hardly the right place to resolve this kind of issue.

Robert
He was having problems with the sign-up process and getting activated. That has been resolved, so he should chime in pretty soon I would think... I just sent him an email notifying him that Sam said his account was ready for use.

Sven
Posts: 3549
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 7:57 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Sven » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:21 pm

He did not _lose_ the sources. He just did not keep old versions but overwrote them with each modification.

Maybe someone has already replied the same on one of the next 15 pages of this thread, I have just read a few pages until now ...

Sven
AdminX wrote:
Ovyron wrote:It's going to be a difficult case, Vas never saved his sources codes, he doesn't have the Rybka 3 one, so I'm sure he doesn't have the code of Rybka 1.1 or 2.0, all the investigations would need to be done as reverse engineered code.

It was unfortunate that Vas claimed Strelka's code as his own, since later it was found out that it had significant parts of Fruit.

As about the ply and node count obfuscations, they have been explained at Rybka forum, 3 plies are added to normalize the count relative to other engines, as earlier plies are "thinner" and don't fulfill their definition of ply, nodes are recalculated so they can be used to compare different hardware, i.e. higher nodes must mean higher strength at all times, unlike other engines that with hyperthreading show higher node count but play weaker.
Question: If Vas LOST Rybka 3 Sources, Then how the Hell did he write Rybka 4 so fast. That is a hell of allot of code for a very strong program.

mwyoung
Posts: 996
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 8:00 pm

Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by mwyoung » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:52 pm

bob wrote:I've communicated with Fabien and he now has an active CCC account. I'd suggest that we try to have a civil discourse and let him explain his interpretation of what has happened. I will alert the other mods to keep a close eye on these threads so that they don't get out of control. I doubt you will hear anything new or surprising, but it will be coming from a new source. What you believe is up to you, of course.
What do you mean we will not hear anything new or surprising.

You don't think Fabien saying he as never talked to Vas about this issue is not new or surprising. After Vas stated he talked to Fabien, and Fabien had no issues with Rybka regarding Fruit code. Yes, this is not news I guess if it is a given that Vas is a pathological Liar .

Post Reply