Fabien's open letter to the community

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Gian-Carlo Pascutto
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Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Gian-Carlo Pascutto » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:25 am

Xann wrote: Gian-Carlo,

Long time no see ...
I heard you're already a big name in computer Go!
Yes, nice to have you back.

You could say I "Fruited" the computer go people in 2008 :-P

Cubeman
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Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Cubeman » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:27 am

How about CCRL and CEGT state their position on Rybka and others.The longer the delay the more it looks like you are in co-operation with Rybka.
To save face now you should make statement.And don't hide behind the fact you are just a bunch of hobby testers and have no opinion and are free to test what you like when you know full well that other people or groups are using your stance on the "clones" as some kind of moral proof.
The longer you delay the less credibility you will have.

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hgm
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Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by hgm » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:35 am

Alexander Schmidt wrote:VR used Fruit code. Noone who looked at the facts can disagree.
Wrong. Fabien just wrote he disagreed. "Reading" or "re-writing" is not "using" code in the normal meaning of the word.
Maybe everything is rewritten, but that would still be a GPL violation.
Wrong again. Copyrights do not extend to rewrite.
What I wrote many times is: We cannot say if this was a GPL violation or not as long as Fabien doesn't complain.
OK, so you are not only wrong on all counts now, you were wrong many times before. Nice to let us know. If it is a GPL violation follows from examining the Fruit code and the Rybka binary. Fabien's opinion on this is completely irrelevant. Justice in this world is done by facts, not by opinions of people who are considered important or respected. And legal action can only be taken by the FSF, as they own the copyrights, and Fabien is no longer an interested party.
Now he complained, now we know Rybka is illegal.
Only those that cannot understand what they read 'know' this...

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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:50 am

tomgdrums wrote:man the silence on the Rybka forum is deafening!!!!!!

I posted there HOURS ago asking the Rybka team to say something! Anything!

As I posted on another forum, I will not go to bed tonight as a hypocrite SO if the Rybka team can not even say ANYTHING about this, then Rybka 3 and 4 are off my computer before I turn in for the night. Which sucks but I won't feel right if I don't.
I told you that they'll keep silence like a goat butt....
The whole Rybka team and their hardcore supporters must be banned from the the honest circle of the computer ches community....
I'm really glad that I was behind the right side of the fence all this time :D
Dr.D

P.S.Oh no,won't delete Rybka from my rating lists,I will just watch it sinking down and have fun :D
Last edited by Dr.Wael Deeb on Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

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Houdini
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Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Houdini » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:51 am

SzG wrote:
Houdini wrote: That doesn't alter the observation that CCRL and CEGT have been instrumental in allowing Rybka to ban a number of engines without actually providing any proof or beginning any legal action.
Yes, if we didn't exist, they could not refer to us. Excellent observation.
If you really insist on misreading my previous post, I'll make the point a third time.

The CCRL and CEGT could actually have existed, and not have played a role in Rybka's attempt to ban a number of engines without actually providing any proof or beginning any legal action.

If the CCRL and CEGT members are not aware of this possibility, you've been artfully manipulated...

Robert

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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:54 am

SzG wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote:
Graham Banks wrote:...

Personally, I'm waiting for this to play out further before making any big decisions.

Once Fabien says that he has examined all the facts for himself and states that Rybka is undeniably nothing more than a Fruit ripoff and which versions this applies to (statements that he would be prepared to defend in a legal sense), I will be perfectly happy to personally stop testing those versions ...
"those versions" only ?

Why do you then reject latest Ivanhoe versions even if Ippolit were a clone ?

Matthias.
Suppose Rybka 1.0 is a clone of Fruit 2.1.

Now if the Rybka family were based on version 1.0 as a backbone, all members of the family would be illegal. OK.
But what if versions 2 and upwards are really different from 1.0, meaning that Vasik used 1.0 only as a learning stage? What if he had not released version 1.0 at all?

I don't think we can solve this problem. Even if we take it granted that Rybka 1.0 stole code, we cannot be sure with further versions. They may be using only ideas from 1.0, just as Houdini uses only ideas from Robbolito... :wink:
Gabor,
I'm astonished that you're still trying to defend this crook called Vasik....
The facts are before your eyes,please wake up....
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

Gian-Carlo Pascutto
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Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Gian-Carlo Pascutto » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:04 am

hgm wrote:If it is a GPL violation follows from examining the Fruit code and the Rybka binary. Fabien's opinion on this is completely irrelevant. Justice in this world is done by facts, not by opinions of people who are considered important or respected. And legal action can only be taken by the FSF, as they own the copyrights, and Fabien is no longer an interested party.
As I pointed out before in this thread, http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=389878, although his opinion does not change the facts, in reality Fabiens opinion certainly matters for what can happen.

Even in court, there is such a thing as expert testimony.

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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:12 am

I've just been honest with Vasik in the Rybka forum....here's what I've just posted there....

Rajlich....you're the biggest crook ever to influence the computer chess community....
The same goes for your hellhounds that keep barking and leaking your feet all these years....
Dr.D


Of course it won't last long and most probably I'll be banned for life but hey....you can always register there with funny accounts like bannedforlife :wink:
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

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JuLieN
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Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by JuLieN » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:18 am

Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:I've just been honest with Vasik in the Rybka forum....here's what I've just posted there....

Rajlich....you're the biggest crook ever to influence the computer chess community....
The same goes for your hellhounds that keep barking and leaking your feet all these years....
Dr.D


Of course it won't last long and most probably I'll be banned for life but hey....you can always register there with funny accounts like bannedforlife :wink:
If I may comment this, i'll just point the fact that leaking is what Julian Assange do, not Rybka's zealots. :)

Also, I'd like to say that I'm starting to feel a bit uncomfortable with what this thread is currently going to : flaming someone and taking pleasure into some people's problems. I share Mr. Hyatt's opinion that this discussion should stay civil. And taking pleasure into someone else's problems is definitely not civil. To say the least.
"The only good bug is a dead bug." (Don Dailey)
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Matthias Gemuh
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Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Matthias Gemuh » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:20 am

hgm wrote:
Alexander Schmidt wrote:VR used Fruit code. Noone who looked at the facts can disagree.
Wrong. Fabien just wrote he disagreed. "Reading" or "re-writing" is not "using" code in the normal meaning of the word.
...
HGM,

it is a pity that you have decided not to understand Fabien's post.
I know you can, if you choose to.

Matthias.
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
http://www.chess.hylogic.de

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