Graham: shortened by Rolf
Just one question Bob. What happens if this case is tried by the FSF (and I hope it is because we all want to see the matter resolved with some finality), and Vas is cleared?
Bob: shortened by Rolf
My opinion won't change however. We can argue forever about how much he copied, but there is no doubt he copied. Fabien could almost certainly win a civil trial, but what damages could he be awarded since his program was not commercial, his reputation has not been damaged. He has just been "ripped off"... So where this goes is most likely nowhere... Typically a FSF action stops at the point where the copying party agrees to provide the source... So there is always a way out...
Ted Summer: shortened by Rolf
Graham, A expert has spoken, but lets be honest here, you still will not accept it. It does not change your mind one way or the other. So what is the point of your question? In the above statement even if Vas were convicted, I don't think you would accept it, only if he were found not guilty would you agree.
Ted, please tell us, why Bob were tolerably staying by his opinion while you utilize the concept of honesty against Graham, if he dared to act like Bob? How could this be an honest proceduring? And BTW Graham had made clear that he would accept any FSF outcome but of course he reserved to stay to his opinion, like Bob did it too.
Already 5 years ago, when the arguments were starting against Vas or against Rybka as some tried to use care, I supposed that we had a campaign whose sole intent was to make and win a case against Vas WITHOUT even having started a legal case of justice. And we have still the same situation.
In this forum we have members who are deeply convinced of an existing wrongdoing. I understood this already 5 years ago and propsed therefore to begin the juridical issue of a court case.
But - to my surprise this wasnt what happened. First we had the Strelka issue and then the issue with the Hippo family with totally obscure authorship. All designed for the purpose to "win" a case vs Vas without the necessity to start a REAL court case.
When this also failed, because Vas didnt whine but started his cluster movement, we have now after the return (I hope he will stay) of Fabien we re-open the debates from 5 years ago.
While Bob ALWAYS told us that he couldnt see anything reasonably good in court issues, the criticism from my side is neither accepted, that everything else in this situation would only be a campaigning, because the accusers seem to fear the negative outcome in court cases, so that it only would cost good money for 'nothing'.
We have now even a situation where arguments against some like Graham are used while the same argument isnt seen against Bob the other way round.
Therefore I want to beg all here to unite in the following solution. Since even Fabien doesnt want to harm Vas for what he might have done and Bob neither since he wouldnt judge something juridical as a good plan, we should take the whole conflict as an academic question without direct impact for our business and hobby.
Let's all unite with Vasik in the spirit that life is too short to be wasted by negative, evil and lethal ideas. This is how Bob seems to think since he's longer in CC that all others and he still likes to be in it.
Let's follow the role model of Bob and let's enjoy CC.
I have a little caveat however.
Like soldiers of war or inspectors of the police or even medical doctors and therapists, we shouldnt too much talk about the truly existing ugly sides of our field because that would only hurt our children, women and friends. I want to beg Bob in special, because although he's the wisest of all here, he still has the strong desire to publish his professional views without realizing that this way he only feeds the evil in all of us.May it only be the envy we feel towards a WorldChampion Vasik Rajlich. His success almost provokes us because we are weaker. So, the simplest idea is to put Vas into a box where he is stamped as unethical. But we all know that if we point with our finger towards someone else four fingers of that same hand are directly pointing towards ourself. Shouldnt that cause us to think about it?
If now for the last time in all these years we see that the best in our group dont want to sue Vasik, then it's time to welcome him back in our arms. We are based on a legal system and if we decide to not using it against someone it's evil if we are dreaming of lynching him instead.
Innocent until proven guilty ist our noblest guideline. And all the rest should be topic of our professional sphere but without spoiling the whole field with a constant poison of mistrust and hate.
Let's unite under our good tradition that says in chess
GENS UNA SUMUS