Fabien's open letter to the community

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geots
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Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by geots » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:54 am

Graham Banks wrote:
bob wrote:
Sven Schüle wrote:
bob wrote:
Xann wrote:
bob wrote:Just for the record, to eliminate this specific argument, when Zach, CT, I and others looked at the fruit/rybka1 question, we did _not_ involve Strelka. Strelka was the thing that exposed the issue, but we directly compared fruit to rybka, so the strelka issue could not be raised again...
What happened then?

Fabien.
We found _lots_ of similarities. Zach created a web page that went into great detail with the analysis. There are some obvious differences between Fruit and Rybka, but there are a _ton_ of similarities. Too many to be pure luck.
But these similarities are not a proof of code copying.

Sven
If you look at my previous comments, "similarity" is "identical code". The entire program was not copied. But large chunks were. That _is_ proof of code copying...

Since large chunks were copied, but not everything, I chose to not say "identical" to be accurate. But they are _very_ similar. Moreso when you factor out the bitboard changes...
Just one question Bob. What happens if this case is tried by the FSF (and I hope it is because we all want to see the matter resolved with some finality), and Vas is cleared?

Cheers,
Graham.

Dont even have to say I've missed talking to you. That goes without saying.

Be safe, Graham

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geots
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Re: On principle CCRL will be removing all Rybka programs...

Post by geots » Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:41 am

How long did it take you to dream up this train wreck :roll:

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mhull
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Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by mhull » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:29 am

Graham Banks wrote:Just one question Bob. What happens if this case is tried by the FSF (and I hope it is because we all want to see the matter resolved with some finality), and Vas is cleared?
Just one question Graham. Why did you censor the ippo/robbo progs on a mere accusation, but don't censor Rybka on a mere accusation?
Matthew Hull

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geots
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Re: On principle CCRL will be removing all Rybka programs...

Post by geots » Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:16 am

I have a real hard time believing you are speaking for CCRL. I know most of the testers-been there, done that. I cant believe they sent you to come over here and give the news. That is not their style. And another point:
Did they hire you to run CCRL

playjunior
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Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by playjunior » Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:37 am

bob wrote:
Milos wrote:
bob wrote:I have also seen where those public machines have been broken into, and files copied (including 100Ks of credit card numbers). IMAP won't help you one bit there...
It's rather simple.
Take all your programs zip it in a file (I seriously doubt there would be more than 100MB size in total) and encrypt with like AES256 and then send it to yourself on IMAP account (divide a file if necessary and test everything if it works).

I really don't see how that is unreliably or breakable or hackable (unless you lose the key, but that's another issue)...
The issue is, "where is that file stored?" If it is on my office box, I have complete control, and my office machine has never been broken into. If it is on gmail, there is no guarantee of any such protection for privacy, which is a requirement for my email account due to FIRPA, HIPA and such. So gmail is out. And the machine in my office is the same machine where the program copies exist.

BTW, each version of Crafty is maybe a meg. There are thousands of intermediate versions, or gigabytes of data...
Bob if you have encrypted it properly why would you care if you lose control?

I have 2.5 GB of mails on Gmail, which is 33% of allowed free limit in the moment. Not a single mail lost or deleted for like 5 years. All attachments there etc.
We're not suggesting you migrate your mail to "public" places, but for backup it's perfect. My initial point was that today its much easier to do it, because, em, in 1995 you couldn't have 7.5 GB free mailbox with 25MB attachments.

rodolfoleoni
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Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by rodolfoleoni » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:19 pm

Lots of posts, I just cannot read all of them. But I noticed Mr. Letouzey "disappeared" from discussion. What if he'll do nothing about all that stuff?
Rodolfo (The Baron Team)

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JuLieN
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Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by JuLieN » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:28 pm

rodolfoleoni wrote:Lots of posts, I just cannot read all of them. But I noticed Mr. Letouzey "disappeared" from discussion. What if he'll do nothing about all that stuff?
Fabien noticed that all he said/wrote was used and deformed by everyone to make him say whatever pleased each camp. So now he favors private talks. But rest assure than in the end, when he's managed to gather enough informations to build a solid opinion he'll make a public statement . :)
"The only good bug is a dead bug." (Don Dailey)
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gerold
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Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by gerold » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:30 pm

rodolfoleoni wrote:Lots of posts, I just cannot read all of them. But I noticed Mr. Letouzey "disappeared" from discussion. What if he'll do nothing about all that stuff?
All this infor or most of it has been beaten to death before. What can
he do. Its about 5 years to late.
These posts were fun to read. They have done more to promote
IH and Houdini than anything else. Now Houdini is on more rating list
and on Playchess. Also top GM are now using Houdini.

Best,
Gerold

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Rolf
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Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Rolf » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:49 pm

gerold wrote:
rodolfoleoni wrote:Lots of posts, I just cannot read all of them. But I noticed Mr. Letouzey "disappeared" from discussion. What if he'll do nothing about all that stuff?
All this infor or most of it has been beaten to death before. What can
he do. Its about 5 years to late.
These posts were fun to read. They have done more to promote
IH and Houdini than anything else. Now Houdini is on more rating list
and on Playchess. Also top GM are now using Houdini.

Best,
Gerold
Please give me a second to disagree. Houdini is so to speak the genuine version of Rybka for the average chessplayers and testers of chessless automats, while the greatest chessplayer on Earth, the Cluster Rybka is reserved for the eager elites, talents and professionals in chess.

So, if you want to know the truth about chess, go for the online cluster Rybka. If you like to fiddle in your closet with your own hardware but a weaker program, then you can do business as usual.

As the saying goes, every pot finds a black cattle.
-Popper and Lakatos are good but I'm stuck on Leibowitz

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Laskos
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Re: Fabien's open letter to the community

Post by Laskos » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:21 pm

Rolf wrote:
Please give me a second to disagree. Houdini is so to speak the genuine version of Rybka for the average chessplayers and testers of chessless automats, while the greatest chessplayer on Earth, the Cluster Rybka is reserved for the eager elites, talents and professionals in chess.

So, if you want to know the truth about chess, go for the online cluster Rybka. If you like to fiddle in your closet with your own hardware but a weaker program, then you can do business as usual.

As the saying goes, every pot finds a black cattle.
:lol:

This must be a Neural Network output. Propositions seem to obey the grammatical rules, the syntax is there, but after several of them one loses the grasp on the meaning.

Kai

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