Luke skywalker has done it again.

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: hgm, Harvey Williamson, bob

Locked
mcostalba
Posts: 2679
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:17 pm

Re: Luke skywalker has done it again.

Post by mcostalba » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:59 pm

Don wrote: This whole thing comes down to the validity of the assumption that if Rybka scores 5.12 or more, it is a win with 99.99999999% certainty and that it follows that this happens to be the same certainty for the entire results.
Don, this is clearly a 1st April joke. The whole thing comes down to the fact that starting from the finachetto position he searched so deep to reach a PV with alpha set at almost +5.12, this is clearly non-sense. I am surprised that a developer falls this trap. I can understand people from main forum, but a developer should not be joked with something like this ;-)

Terry McCracken
Posts: 15798
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:16 am
Location: Canada

Re: Luke skywalker has done it again.

Post by Terry McCracken » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:12 pm

You read too much into what I said, Don.
Terry McCracken

User avatar
JuLieN
Posts: 2945
Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 10:16 am
Location: Nantes (France)
Contact:

Re: Luke skywalker has done it again.

Post by JuLieN » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:09 am

[moderation]
I sanitized the Luke Skywalker thread by moving all the hijacked part dealing with the Rybka/ICGA/Clones discussion to Engines Origins.
Please (especially Vincent) have these discussions there and don't hijack threads, thank you.
[/moderation]
"The only good bug is a dead bug." (Don Dailey)
Image [Blog: http://tinyurl.com/predateur ] [Facebook: http://tinyurl.com/fbpredateur ] [MacEngines: http://tinyurl.com/macengines ]

Mark Mason
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:52 pm

Re: Luke skywalker has done it again.

Post by Mark Mason » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:52 am

Well anyway....just in case anyone hasn't yet spotted it today.Chessbase have officially admitted it was all a joke which we all knew anyway:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8051

:roll:

diep
Posts: 1780
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:54 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Luke skywalker has done it again.

Post by diep » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:56 am

JuLieN wrote:[moderation]
I sanitized the Luke Skywalker thread by moving all the hijacked part dealing with the Rybka/ICGA/Clones discussion to Engines Origins.
Please (especially Vincent) have these discussions there and don't hijack threads, thank you.
[/moderation]
You are unwilling to hear the truth about Vasik?

You realize that by doing these actions you keep feeding the lies that are there.

User avatar
JuLieN
Posts: 2945
Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 10:16 am
Location: Nantes (France)
Contact:

Re: Luke skywalker has done it again.

Post by JuLieN » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:00 pm

diep wrote:
JuLieN wrote:[moderation]
I sanitized the Luke Skywalker thread by moving all the hijacked part dealing with the Rybka/ICGA/Clones discussion to Engines Origins.
Please (especially Vincent) have these discussions there and don't hijack threads, thank you.
[/moderation]
You are unwilling to hear the truth about Vasik?

You realize that by doing these actions you keep feeding the lies that are there.
Yes I am. I am willing to ear any "truth" you want, Vincent. But in Engines Origins, thank you. :)

The current thread deals with ChessBase's April fool's joke: don't hijack it.
"The only good bug is a dead bug." (Don Dailey)
Image [Blog: http://tinyurl.com/predateur ] [Facebook: http://tinyurl.com/fbpredateur ] [MacEngines: http://tinyurl.com/macengines ]

Albert Silver
Posts: 2741
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Re: Luke skywalker has done it again.

Post by Albert Silver » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:28 pm

Mark Mason wrote:Well anyway....just in case anyone hasn't yet spotted it today.Chessbase have officially admitted it was all a joke which we all knew anyway:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8051

:roll:
Well, I pretty much said as much in page one of this thread, without spelling it out.
"Tactics are the bricks and sticks that make up a game, but positional play is the architectural blueprint."

gerold
Posts: 10065
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:57 pm
Location: van buren,missouri

Re: Luke skywalker has done it again.

Post by gerold » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:00 pm

Albert Silver wrote:
Mark Mason wrote:Well anyway....just in case anyone hasn't yet spotted it today.Chessbase have officially admitted it was all a joke which we all knew anyway:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8051

:roll:
Well, I pretty much said as much in page one of this thread, without spelling it out.
I though it was real when first posted. But wondered how strange and stupid could one man and chessbase be. :_) . Well considering the source hum.............................

Daniel Shawul
Posts: 3436
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:34 am
Location: Ethiopia
Contact:

Re: Luke skywalker has done it again.

Post by Daniel Shawul » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:29 pm

The funniest way one guy figured it out
"That can't be a geek's wife so it is the april fools joke" :)

For me it was the consecuative "chess + billiards" and the "futuristic let's check" articles that alerted me. No idea about pogo pogo though. Well played chessbase!

Rein Halbersma
Posts: 672
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 9:13 am

Re: Luke skywalker has done it again.

Post by Rein Halbersma » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:46 pm

Rein Halbersma wrote: Apart from the lame April fools date obfuscation in the piece, the actual numbers already made the story incredible without reading further!

First, the solution space of checkers was 10^22 (the search space was 10^40), which was reduced to 10^14 by a bidirectional search. The back-end search built 10^14 database positions, and the front-end search built 10^14 opening positions. Schaeffer (http://ilk.uvt.nl/icga/journal/pdf/toc30-4.pdf) estimates it would take 200 core years to re-create this solution. Second, Schaeffer also estimates that the solution space for chess is about the square of that of checkers.

How does Vas's claim stack up against this? Hm, about 10 times the computing power but about the square of the search space (10^80 vs 10^40). Being liberal, let's suppose the actual solution space is the square root of that (10^40). However, the efficient bidirectional search (giving almost another square root reduction), was dependent on 10-piece databases which were already reachable from shallow root searches. Without the equivalent chess databases, the 10^40 solution space will not be reduced by another square root. And covering 26 orders of magnitude with 10 times more computing power... :roll:

BTW, the way checkers was solved by Schaeffer et al. was by iterating over the threshold value. So a real proof would take the 5.12 as the first step in such an iteration, and stepwise increase it all the way to a mate score.
So the joke is exposed by the man himself using a similar argument as above:

http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8051
"we're still probably a good 25 or so orders of magnitude away from being able to solve something like the King's Gambit."

Locked