Cursed win at TCEC

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whereagles
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Cursed win at TCEC

Post by whereagles » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:13 pm

Have a look:

http://tcec.chessdom.com/archive.php?se=9&sf&ga=17

Engines showing 0.00 due to 50-move rule, but position was auto-adjudicated as an M72 TB win :D

Discuss :)

Dan Cooper
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Re: Cursed win at TCEC

Post by Dan Cooper » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:35 pm

It should be changed to a draw. Not much discussion needed.

zenpawn
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Re: Cursed win at TCEC

Post by zenpawn » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:41 pm

Dan Cooper wrote:It should be changed to a draw. Not much discussion needed.
Indeed. Is the TD aware of the situation?

Dan Cooper
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Re: Cursed win at TCEC

Post by Dan Cooper » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:43 pm

zenpawn wrote:
Dan Cooper wrote:It should be changed to a draw. Not much discussion needed.
Indeed. Is the TD aware of the situation?
Martin is aware but not sure Anton is. Martin just said the result would stand because rules are rules.

I don't think they intended for this to happen though.

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MikeB
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Re: Cursed win at TCEC

Post by MikeB » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:51 pm

Dan Cooper wrote:
zenpawn wrote:
Dan Cooper wrote:It should be changed to a draw. Not much discussion needed.
Indeed. Is the TD aware of the situation?
Martin is aware but not sure Anton is. Martin just said the result would stand because rules are rules.

I don't think they intended for this to happen though.
If true and they stick by their "rules are rules" and "our head is in the sand" mantra, they can kiss their little tournament , as it stands today , "good bye". Idiocy at its finest - if true. Hopefully it's not true and the results are "fixed", make that "corrected". 😊

Dan Cooper
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Re: Cursed win at TCEC

Post by Dan Cooper » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:02 pm

MikeB wrote:
Dan Cooper wrote:
zenpawn wrote:
Dan Cooper wrote:It should be changed to a draw. Not much discussion needed.
Indeed. Is the TD aware of the situation?
Martin is aware but not sure Anton is. Martin just said the result would stand because rules are rules.

I don't think they intended for this to happen though.
If true and they stick by their "rules are rules" and "our head is in the sand" mantra, they can kiss their little tournament , as it stands today , "good bye". Idiocy at its finest - if true. Hopefully it's not true and the results are "fixed", make that "corrected". 😊
This is a bit of an overreaction.

whereagles
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Re: Cursed win at TCEC

Post by whereagles » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:06 pm

I think it should be a draw because engines played with 50-moves on. Who knows what would have happened if they had it disabled?

So yeah.. if you want to allow cursed wins (which I agree), engine programmers should be alerted before submitting the binaries.

mwyoung
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Re: Cursed win at TCEC

Post by mwyoung » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:39 pm

whereagles wrote:I think it should be a draw because engines played with 50-moves on. Who knows what would have happened if they had it disabled?

So yeah.. if you want to allow cursed wins (which I agree), engine programmers should be alerted before submitting the binaries.
Here is the problem. You can not claim the 50 move rule unless you have played the 50 moves. This never happened in the game.

TCEC rules state: Cutechess will also adjudicate 5-men or less tablebase endgame positions automatically.

The game was adjudicated a win. And you could force a mate but beyond 50 moves.

This is what happens when you have rules to adjudicate games, and not let the programs play out the moves.

As a tester I never adjudicate games for this reason.

But TCEC is not testing engines. They are running a entertainment tournament. So they have rules to shorten games, dubious openings to force more decisive games etc.etc. This is done to draw people to the site to watch the games.

This is just the nature of the beast. I would not get to bent out of shape about this. All the programs are playing under the same TCEC adjudication rules.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Dirt
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Re: Cursed win at TCEC

Post by Dirt » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:45 pm

mwyoung wrote:TCEC rules state: Cutechess will also adjudicate 5-men or less tablebase endgame positions automatically.
Is Cutechess using Syzygy? Then it should know it's a draw. If it's using Nalimov tablebases it should be adjudicated manually. The programs know it's a draw and one of them may have counted on that.
Deasil is the right way to go.

Dan Cooper
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Re: Cursed win at TCEC

Post by Dan Cooper » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:49 pm

Dirt wrote:
mwyoung wrote:TCEC rules state: Cutechess will also adjudicate 5-men or less tablebase endgame positions automatically.
Is Cutechess using Syzygy? Then it should know it's a draw. If it's using Nalimov tablebases it should be adjudicated manually. The programs know it's a draw and one of them may have counted on that.
cutechess adjudicates using Gaviota. And yes, both engines had the game scored as 0.00 when it was adjudicated.

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