AlphaZero beats AlphaGo Zero, Stockfish, and Elmo

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Milos
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Re: AlphaZero beats AlphaGo Zero, Stockfish, and Elmo

Post by Milos » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:23 pm

Ras wrote:
Leo wrote:Was it to inconvenient to download the latest SF?
Because it isn't an official release and has not been tested as exhaustively. That's the point of releases. Just take a look at the TCEC what happened to Komodo when going with a dev version.

Besides, the release has been rated in many games while the "dev version of today" has not.
Oh so Google ppl actually cared that SF dev doesn't show some weakness due to it no being tested so they've chosen well tested version??? :lol: :lol: :lol:
I guess that has something to do with Saint Nicholas Day today, I mean believing in Santa, etc. :D

jhellis3
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Re: AlphaZero beats AlphaGo Zero, Stockfish, and Elmo

Post by jhellis3 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:30 pm

So $100 US ok?

IanO
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Re: AlphaZero beats AlphaGo Zero, Stockfish, and Elmo

Post by IanO » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:52 pm

Speaking of which, I saw no mention of endgame tablebases used for either opponent. Anyone know if Stockfish had those available?

It would be interesting to see how well AlphaZero's endgame knowledge matches that of the endgame tablebases. If it performs well, it might actually be a smaller and more robust implementation of the same knowledge.

Leo
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Re: AlphaZero beats AlphaGo Zero, Stockfish, and Elmo

Post by Leo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:53 pm

jhellis3 wrote:Lol, it wouldn't have mattered at all.

Though perhaps a better example would have been to train it for crazyhouse. SF is nearing 4000 "Elo" there, and the games are almost all decisive, so it would have been able to demonstrate its superiority much more clearly.
It would have mattered. It could have drawn more games. The score would have been different.
Brainfish fan. AMD fan.

Leo
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Re: AlphaZero beats AlphaGo Zero, Stockfish, and Elmo

Post by Leo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:56 pm

Ras wrote:
Leo wrote:Was it to inconvenient to download the latest SF?
Because it isn't an official release and has not been tested as exhaustively. That's the point of releases. Just take a look at the TCEC what happened to Komodo when going with a dev version.

Besides, the release has been rated in many games while the "dev version of today" has not.
It is still unsatisfying to use that old of a SF.
Brainfish fan. AMD fan.

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Leto
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Re: AlphaZero beats AlphaGo Zero, Stockfish, and Elmo

Post by Leto » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:58 pm

Leo wrote:
Ras wrote:
Leo wrote:Was it to inconvenient to download the latest SF?
Because it isn't an official release and has not been tested as exhaustively. That's the point of releases. Just take a look at the TCEC what happened to Komodo when going with a dev version.

Besides, the release has been rated in many games while the "dev version of today" has not.
It is still unsatisfying to use that old of a SF.
Judging from the score of the match it wouldn't matter if the latest SF dev were used, AlphaZero should dominate it easily. And that was with just 4 hours of training. Imagine how much stronger AlphaZero is now.

Leo
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Re: AlphaZero beats AlphaGo Zero, Stockfish, and Elmo

Post by Leo » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:08 am

Leto wrote:
Leo wrote:
Ras wrote:
Leo wrote:Was it to inconvenient to download the latest SF?
Because it isn't an official release and has not been tested as exhaustively. That's the point of releases. Just take a look at the TCEC what happened to Komodo when going with a dev version.

Besides, the release has been rated in many games while the "dev version of today" has not.
It is still unsatisfying to use that old of a SF.
Judging from the score of the match it wouldn't matter if the latest SF dev were used, AlphaZero should dominate it easily. And that was with just 4 hours of training. Imagine how much stronger AlphaZero is now.
When it solves a 10 man EGTB I will agree its impressive. Maybe it can do that in 4 hours too.
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Ras
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Re: AlphaZero beats AlphaGo Zero, Stockfish, and Elmo

Post by Ras » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:35 am

Leo wrote:It is still unsatisfying to use that old of a SF.
It's really not Google's fault that the Stockfish team hasn't had enough confidence to release Stockfish 9 for more than a full year.

Leo
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Re: AlphaZero beats AlphaGo Zero, Stockfish, and Elmo

Post by Leo » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:45 am

Ras wrote:
Leo wrote:It is still unsatisfying to use that old of a SF.
It's really not Google's fault that the Stockfish team hasn't had enough confidence to release Stockfish 9 for more than a full year.
I see your point. It does look like this is a chess computer revolution. Most of us new this was coming someday right?
Brainfish fan. AMD fan.

Ras
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Re: AlphaZero beats AlphaGo Zero, Stockfish, and Elmo

Post by Ras » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:06 am

Leo wrote:It does look like this is a chess computer revolution.
I wouldn't limit this to chess. It seems that their framework is flexible enough to master chess, Go and other games, indicating that it might be suited to a wide range of tasks - by self-learning. Maybe, the AI spring is coming, after decades of winter. This could be a computer revolution.

For now, Google has a monopoly on these TPUs, and they will continue to enjoy this advantage for quite some time. That's why they don't sell them and rent them out via cloud. They're cashing in on being the first to the market.

However, market economy inevitably dictates what will happen: other big companies will jump the train, Intel and Nvidia in particular, aiming to sell that stuff to end customers. Similarly to what happened in the PC revolution.

Especially Intel actually HAS to think of a new strategy, given that their adventures to get hold in ARM's domain by and large have failed. They can't bet their whole company's future on x86. Plus that Intel has the money and the experts to achieve success, I think.

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