Human versus Machine

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Ovyron
Posts: 1948
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:30 am

Re: Stockfish and Fischer

Post by Ovyron » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:16 pm

Wow! So we have a computer chess compiracy theorist? And his videos are worse than forum posts because at least here we can quote the text and reply, there is just a still image of the post? And ARB is put on the same bucket as Tsvetkov?

I wonder what's next :shock:

Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6036
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:41 am

Re: A blast from the past

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:05 am

Uri Blass wrote:
MikeGL wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
MikeGL wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:Most people here should be aware, but for those new, I just want to
bring back to life an intriguing thread on talkchess, involving a live chess game between me and Stockfish, played in late 2014:
http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... be27a1a99c
This is just to show how much analytical effort has gone into developing the right strategies to overpower the top engines.
With each move consistently analysed for half an hour, and Stockfish using 16 threads, the amount of knowledge one gets from similar sessions is certainly tremendous.

And that is only one of maybe more than a thousand similar analytical threads on talkchess during the last 5 years.

Some might try to raise cheating allegations against me, but I am worth
what I am worth.
Where's the complete game of your Qf6+ game, that's brilliant but I also saw a game 10 years earlier (2004) than yours (2014) doing the same mating attack.


[pgn]
[Event "LTU-ch"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2004.04.23"]
[EventDate "2004.04.23"]
[Round "1"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Henrikas Asauskas"]
[Black "Vidmantas Malisauskas"]
[ECO "B90"]
[WhiteElo "2358"]
[BlackElo "2525"]
[PlyCount "47"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 Nf6 4. Nc3 cxd4 5. Nxd4 a6 6. Bc4 e6
7. Bb3 Be7 8. g4 O-O 9. g5 Nfd7 10. Rg1 Nc5 11. Be3 Nxb3
12. axb3 Nc6 13. Nxc6 bxc6 14. e5 d5 15. Ra4 g6 16. Rh4 c5
17. Rg3 Kg7 18. Qf3 Bb7 19. Qf6+ Bxf6 20. gxf6+ Kg8 21. Rxh7
Kxh7 22. Rh3+ Kg8 23. Bh6 Qc7 24. f4 1-0
[/pgn]

[d]r2q1r2/1b2bpkp/p3p1p1/2ppP1P1/7R/1PN1BQR1/1PP2P1P/4K3 w - - 0 1
Before the Qf6+ sac of Henrikas.

edit: I tried your Fischer positions above, SF8 dev finds h4 as best (7 secs on my old machine), and on another position Nikolic
lost because he allowed Bxf4 when Nh3 could give slight plus for white according to SF8
dev. So Bg4 was not considered as best by SF8 dev because there are refutations. In short,
all positions you posted above is easy for SF8 dev on my archaic 32 bit machine running only at
2.0 GHz.
You are mostly talking BS, as usual.

1. in Nikolic-Fischer, Bg4 is a proven best move, Andrew already posted about it a whole thread on the main forum 2 years ago or so, Bg4 is winning, no doubt about it, and it ONLY confirms the validity of my chess knowledge concept, twice backward shelter pawn on f2/c2; what SF considers as REFUTATION on your computer is completely off the point, SF can see nothing in this position, as it is very deep
2. in the other position, SF might see h4 by a miracle on your computer, but what is the score? On my computer, SF does not pick it easily.
3. Asauskas played a great game, but then Malisauskas played very weak...:); well, just the pattern is the same, twice backward shelter pawn on f7, but the game itself and the key position is very shallow and dull, don't you agree, mate in 5 or so, every engine will see, even Skipper? You can't compare my position, which is much deeper, mate in 20 or so, and much more beautiful, and which neither top engines sees, with this one, can you?; if you mean I copy-pasted it, it is the first time I see this game :)

Concenring my game with SF, no full record, it started a bit later into the game, please read the whole thread, should I read it instead for you.
I am talking BS? You're funny.

First, I am still waiting for the complete PGN of your amazing Qf6
combination, since I already caught you lying more than 3 times without
even a single apology from you. Why lie just to prove a point?
This is just a chess engine forum with nothing to prove here.

I can also post something like this:
[d]N2r4/1k3p1p/3p2p1/3p1p2/1P1B4/bPqpP1P1/P4P2/RK1Q4 b - - 0 1

And claim I can win easily with QxB and all engines are blind on this
Q sac combination, and take credit that I am stronger than any engines on
the planet. But of course this is just a modified test suite to
fit my argument. Seems like this is what you did. (If you CAN NOT post the complete game of your above Qf6! brilliancy, then I will doubt your credibility, due to a dozen lies of you posted on other threads)
Please prove the authenticity of that game by posting the complete game
and the engine version you used so I can check and verify.

1.Your first point, yes, Bg4 is dubious according to SF latest dev version and there are other
stronger winning moves. I already told you, that after Nh3, there is no way black can proceed a win according to SF, otherwise you can prove me wrong if you can post the winning line.

2. Your second point,, the move h4 in latest SF dev is the only positive score given by SF dev,
I don't lie like what you're always doing, where you even modify a PV intentionally and then conveniently escape by claiming your engine is buggy and it displayed wrong PV.
Here: Image
Does that satisfy you? Because no other moves are better than h4, doesn't matter what engine score is on this move.
Because no other better alternative in a Multi-PV.
To think this is just 7 seconds on a 10 year old 32bit machine, using a 32bit SF8 dev.

3.No you are caught lying for the 4th time, Qf6 done by Asauskas is difficult for current engines. You just modified a difficult test suite and claim you have beaten an engine to prove your point that you're stronger
than any engines.
Concenring my game with SF, no full record, it started a bit later into the game, please read the whole thread, should I read it instead for you.

This is your 5th lie, because you can even remember the winning
combination because this game is very special, and yet you can't
remember the whole game? LOL even a 1200 player can remember the
complete game by heart of his amazing combinations. I can remember
complete games (more than 30) of my combinations and amazing sacrifices since grade school.

You EVEN CLAIMED THE GAME WAS LIVE, isn't it? Now you can't trace your online LIVE game done in talkchess? Even if it is not live, you can still remember it, because you claimed you are 2100+ in strength. 5th lie.
I also do not believe him but 2100+ players do not always remember their games.

Note that I will never believe people who claim that they are 3000 under quiet conditions when they do not play in tournaments against humans.

Players that is 3000 under quiet conditions can get easily the GM title and I do not believe people who even do not try and claim they are strong.
It is up to you: the knowledge in 'The Secret of Chess' is ABOVE GM level, so it is up to you to decide how strong the author actually is.
Please note, that being GM-strength and officially holding the GM title are 2 quite different things.

I guess a person can know a lagnuage without having the certificate for it, or...?

Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6036
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:41 am

Re: Stockfish and Fischer

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:09 am

fastgm wrote:[d]3r1rk1/1p1n1ppp/pNbpp3/8/2P1P3/5P2/PPB3PP/2RR2K1 w - - 0 19

Stockfish 180101 64 BMI2, 18 cores

Code: Select all

 20/29	00:01	 24.133k	23.249k	+0,38	19.Nxd7 Rxd7 20.Rd2 Rfd8 21.Kf2 Kf8 22.h4 Ke7 23.b3 Rc8 24.Bd3 Rdd8 25.Rdd1 f6 26.g4 a5 27.g5 b6 28.Rg1 fxg5 29.hxg5
 21/28	00:01	 27.253k	23.885k	+0,35	19.Nxd7 Rxd7 20.Rd2 Rfd8 21.Kf2 Kf8 22.h4 Ke7 23.b3 Rc8 24.Bd3 Rdd8 25.a3 b6 26.h5 h6 27.g4 a5 28.Rdd1 Bb7 29.Kg3 f6
 22/28	00:01	 34.599k	25.163k	+0,33	19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.exd5 e5 21.b4 f5 22.Ba4 b6 23.Kf2 Kf7 24.Bc6 Kf6 25.Re1 g5 26.a3 Rg8 27.g4 f4 28.Bb7 a5 29.Bc6 axb4
 23/38	00:01	 48.867k	27.073k	+0,47	19.Nxd7 Rxd7 20.b4 Rc8 21.a4 b6 22.b5 Bb7 23.e5 d5 24.cxd5 Rxd5 25.Bb3 Rxd1+ 26.Rxd1 axb5 27.axb5 Kf8 28.Rd6 Rc3 29.Rxb6 Bxf3 30.Ba4 Ra3 31.Rb8+ Ke7 32.gxf3 Rxa4 33.b6 Rb4 34.Kf2 Rb5 35.b7
 24/41	00:02	 73.808k	29.116k	+0,38	19.Nxd7 Rxd7 20.b4 Rc8 21.a4 Rdd8 22.a5 Kf8 23.Bb3 Ke7 24.Kf2 e5 25.g3 Bd7 26.Ke3 Be6 27.h4 f6 28.h5 Bf7 29.Rh1 Rc7 30.Kf2 Rcc8 31.g4 Be6 32.Ke3
 25/31	00:02	 81.095k	29.521k	+0,38	19.Nxd7 Rxd7 20.b4 Rc8 21.a4 Rdd8 22.a5 Kf8 23.Kf2 e5 24.Bd3 Ke7 25.h4 h5 26.g3 Bd7 27.f4 g6 28.Be2 f6 29.Re1 Rc7 30.Rc3 Rcc8 31.f5 gxf5 32.exf5 Bxf5 33.Bxh5
 26/37	00:03	 99.687k	30.318k	+0,30	19.Nxd7 Rxd7 20.b4 Rc8 21.a4 Rdd8 22.a5 Kf8 23.Kf2 e5 24.h4 Bd7 25.Bd3 Ke7 26.Ke3 Be6 27.g3 g6 28.Rh1 h5 29.Kd2 f5 30.Kc3 fxe4 31.fxe4 Rg8 32.Rcd1 g5
 27/35	00:04	 146.606k	31.306k	+0,35	19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.exd5 e5 21.b4 f5 22.Ba4 b6 23.Kf2 g6 24.Bc6 Kg7 25.a4 Kf6 26.Ra1 e4 27.fxe4 fxe4 28.a5 bxa5 29.Bxd7 Rxd7 30.Rxa5 Rb7 31.Rb1 Rc8 32.Rxa6
 28/40	00:17	 552.410k	31.160k	+0,28	19.Nxd7 Rxd7 20.Rd2 f6 21.Kf2 Kf7 22.Ke3 Rc8 23.Bd3 Rdd8 24.g3 Ke7 25.b3 h5 26.h4 Rg8 27.Rh1 g6 28.Be2 Rgd8 29.a4 a5 30.Rhd1 g5 31.hxg5 fxg5 32.f4 gxf4+ 33.gxf4 Rg8 34.Rxd6 Rg3+ 35.Kf2 Rcg8
 29/41	00:22	 706.494k	31.297k	+0,26	19.Nxd7 Rxd7 20.b4 Rc8 21.a4 Rdd8 22.a5 Kf8 23.Kf2 Ke7 24.h4 Bd7 25.Bd3 e5 26.g3 h5 27.f4 g6 28.Rd2 f6 29.Be2 Be6 30.Ke3 Bd7 31.Rdc2 Ba4 32.Rb2 Bd7 33.Rd2 Be6 34.Kd3 exf4 35.gxf4
 30/33	00:22	 706.644k	31.297k	+0,26	19.Nxd7 Rxd7 20.b4 Rc8 21.a4 Rdd8 22.a5 Kf8 23.Kf2 Ke7 24.h4 Bd7 25.Bd3 e5 26.g3 h5 27.f4 g6 28.Rd2 f6 29.Be2 Be6 30.Ke3 Bd7 31.Rdc2 Ba4 32.Rb2 Bd7 33.Rd2 Be6 34.Kd3 exf4 35.gxf4
 31/39	00:23	 731.333k	31.299k	+0,26	19.Nxd7 Rxd7 20.b4 Rc8 21.a4 Rdd8 22.a5 Kf8 23.Kf2 Ke7 24.h4 Bd7 25.Bd3 e5 26.g3 h5 27.f4 g6 28.Rd2 f6 29.Be2 Be6 30.Ke3 Bd7 31.Rdc2 Ba4 32.Rb2 Bd7 33.Rd2 Be6 34.Kd3 exf4 35.gxf4 g5 36.hxg5
  32/38	00:24	 757.124k	31.300k	+0,35	19.Nxd7 Rxd7 20.b4 Rc8 21.a4 Rdd8 22.a5 Kf8 23.Kf2 Ke7 24.h4 h5 25.g3 Bd7 26.Bb3 e5 27.c5 dxc5 28.bxc5 Bc6 29.Rxd8 Rxd8 30.Rd1 Rxd1 31.Bxd1 f6 32.Bb3 Kd7 33.Ke3 Kc7 34.f4 Bb5 35.Bd5 Bc6 36.Kf3 exf4 37.Kxf4
 33/45	00:30	 938.570k	30.277k	+0,33	19.Nxd7 Rxd7 20.b4 Rc8 21.a4 Rdd8 22.a5 Kf8 23.Kf2 Ke7 24.h4 Bd7 25.Bd3 e5 26.g3 g6 27.g4 Be6 28.Ke3 f6 29.Be2 h6 30.Rh1 f5 31.exf5 gxf5 32.gxf5 Bxf5 33.Rhg1 Rg8 34.Bd3 Be6 35.Rxg8 Rxg8 36.Be4
  34/48	01:01	 1.846.019k	29.838k	+0,27	19.Nxd7 Rxd7 20.Kf2 Rc8 21.Bd3 Kf8 22.Ke3 Ke7 23.h4 a5 24.b3 b6 25.Be2 f6 26.Rd2 a4 27.b4 Rdd8 28.f4 f5 29.exf5 exf5 30.g3 g6 31.h5 Be4 32.hxg6 hxg6 33.Bf3 Bxf3 34.Kxf3 Re8 35.Rd5 Kd7 36.Rd4 Re6 37.Rh1 Rce8 38.Rh7+ Kd8
 35/52	02:47	 5.143.681k	30.780k	+0,17	19.Nxd7 Rxd7 20.Kf2 Rc8 21.f4 Kf8 22.g4 Ke7 23.Bd3 Rdc7 24.Rd2 b5 25.b3 bxc4 26.Rxc4 Bb5 27.Rxc7+ Rxc7 28.Rc2 Rxc2+ 29.Bxc2 e5 30.f5 a5 31.Ke3 Bc6 32.Bd3 d5 33.exd5 Bxd5 34.Be4 Bxe4 35.Kxe4 Kd6 36.h3 f6
 36/48	03:22	 6.296.414k	31.148k	+0,13	19.Nxd7 Rxd7 20.Kf2 Rc8 21.g4 Kf8 22.f4 Ke7 23.Bd3 Rdc7 24.Rd2 b5 25.b3 bxc4 26.Rxc4 Bb5 27.Rxc7+ Rxc7 28.Rc2 Rxc2+ 29.Bxc2 e5 30.f5 a5 31.Ke3 Bc6 32.h4 d5 33.exd5 Bxd5 34.Be4 Bxe4 35.Kxe4 Kd6 36.Ke3 Kd5 37.Kd3 Kc6 38.h5 Kd5 39.Ke3 f6 40.a3 Kc5
 37/43	03:33	 6.660.379k	31.235k	+0,13	19.Nxd7 Rxd7 20.Kf2 Rc8 21.g4 Kf8 22.f4 Ke7 23.Bd3 Rdc7 24.b3 b5 25.Rd2 bxc4 26.Rxc4 Bb5 27.Rxc7+ Rxc7 28.Rc2 Rxc2+ 29.Bxc2 a5 30.Ke3 e5 31.f5 Bc6 32.h4 d5 33.exd5 Bxd5 34.Be4 Bxe4 35.Kxe4 Kd6 36.Ke3 Kd5 37.Kd3 f6 38.a3 Kc5 39.Ke4 Kd6 40.g5
  38/53	03:57	 7.479.311k	31.455k	+0,17	19.Nxd7 Rxd7 20.Kf2 Rc8 21.g4 e5 22.b4 Rdd8 23.a4 Kf8 24.Bb3 Ke7 25.a5 f6 26.h4 Be8 27.h5 Bf7 28.Rd3 Rc7 29.Rdc3 Rdc8 30.Rb1 Kf8 31.c5 Bxb3 32.Rcxb3 dxc5 33.bxc5 Re7 34.Rxb7 Rxb7 35.Rxb7 Rxc5 36.h6 gxh6 37.Rxh7 Rxa5 38.Rxh6
 39/57	06:40	 12.783.827k	31.958k	+0,17	19.Nxd7 Rxd7 20.Kf2 Rc8 21.Ke3 Kf8 22.g3 g6 23.b3 Ke7 24.Bd3 Rdd8 25.Be2 g5 26.Rd2 Rg8 27.Rh1 h5 28.Rhd1 Rcd8 29.f4 g4 30.b4 Ba4 31.Rf1 f6 32.Bd1 Bc6 33.f5 e5 34.Be2 b6 35.Rc1 Bb7 36.Rdc2 Rc8 37.c5 bxc5 38.bxc5 Rxc5 39.Rxc5 dxc5 40.Rxc5 Kd6
 40/56	07:32	 14.503.223k	32.038k	+0,15	19.Nxd7 Rxd7 20.Kf2 Rc8 21.Ke3 Kf8 22.g3 g6 23.b3 Ke7 24.Bd3 a5 25.Be2 b6 26.f4 f5 27.exf5 gxf5 28.Rg1 h5 29.h4 Rh8 30.Kf2 Be4 31.a3 d5 32.Rgd1 dxc4 33.bxc4 Rxd1 34.Rxd1 Bc2 35.Rc1 Be4 36.c5 Rc8 37.Bxh5 Kf6 38.c6 Rxc6 39.Rxc6 Bxc6 40.Ke3 Be4 41.Be2
 41/58	10:09	 19.624.178k	32.220k	+0,12	19.Nxd7 Rxd7 20.Kf2 Rc8 21.Ke3 Kf8 22.g3 g6 23.Rd4 Ke7 24.Rd2 a5 25.Bd3 Rdd8 26.f4 a4 27.Rcd1 f6 28.Be2 f5 29.exf5 gxf5 30.Rg1 h6 31.Rc1 Be4 32.Rc3 Rc6 33.Ra3 Ra8 34.Bd3 Bxd3 35.Raxd3 Rd8 36.b3 Rcc8 37.h3 h5 38.Rd1 Rg8 39.Kf2 axb3 40.axb3
 42/57	11:20	 21.937.364k	32.248k	+0,23	19.Nxd7 Rxd7 20.Kf2 Rc8 21.Ke3 Kf8 22.f4 Ke7 23.Bd3 h5 24.g3 g6 25.Be2 Rdc7 26.Rc3 b5 27.Rdc1 b4 28.Rd3 a5 29.Rcd1 Rd7 30.R3d2 Bb7 31.b3 f6 32.h4 Rdd8 33.g4 hxg4 34.Bxg4 Bxe4 35.Bxe6 Kxe6 36.Kxe4 Rc5 37.Rg2 Kf7 38.Kf3 Rh5 39.Rg4 Rdh8 40.Rxd6 Rxh4
 43/64	16:26	 32.078.476k	32.519k	+0,18	19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.exd5 e5 21.b4 g6 22.Ba4 b6 23.Kf2 f5 24.Bc6 Nb8 25.a4 Rc8 26.b5 a5 27.c5 bxc5 28.Re1 Kf7 29.Rb1 Ke7 30.h3 g5 31.h4 g4 32.f4 e4 33.g3 Kd8 34.Rec1 h5 35.Ke3 Ke7 36.Re1 Kf6 37.Rf1 Ke7 38.Rfd1 Kf6 39.Rb2 Ke7 40.Re1 Kf6 41.Kf2 Rfd8 42.Rbb1 Ke7 43.Rec1
  44/60	18:11	 35.641.547k	32.649k	+0,28	19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.exd5 e5 21.b4 g6 22.Ba4 b6 23.Bc6 Nb8 24.Re1 Rc8 25.b5 f5 26.Rc3 Kf7 27.Bb7 Rc5 28.bxa6 Ra5 29.Rb3 Nxa6 30.Rxb6 Nc5 31.Rxd6 Rb8 32.Rb1 Ra7 33.Rc6 Raxb7 34.Rxb7+ Nxb7 35.Rb6 Ke7 36.c5 Kd7 37.c6+ Kc7 38.Rxb7+ Rxb7 39.cxb7 Kxb7 40.Kf2 Kc7 41.Ke3 Kd6 42.f4 exf4+ 43.Kxf4 Kxd5 44.Kg5 Ke4 45.a4 Kd4 46.a5
 45/67	19:55	 39.154.632k	32.746k	+0,18	19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.exd5 e5 21.b4 b6 22.Ba4 g6 23.Bc6 Nb8 24.Re1 Rc8 25.b5 f5 26.a4 a5 27.c5 bxc5 28.Kf2 Kf7 29.h3 Kf6 30.Rb1 g5 31.Ke3 h5 32.Kd3 h4 33.Kc4 Ke7 34.Red1 Rg8 35.Rh1 Rgf8 36.Rhc1 Rg8 37.Rf1 Rgf8 38.Rb3 Rg8 39.Rfb1 Rgf8 40.R3b2 Rg8 41.Rh1 Rgf8 42.Re1 Rg8 43.Rb3
 46/60	22:48	 44.993.007k	32.889k	+0,22	19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.exd5 e5 21.b4 g6 22.Ba4 Nf6 23.a3 Kg7 24.h4 b6 25.Kf2 Rc8 26.Bc6 Rc7 27.a4 Rfc8 28.Ra1 a5 29.Rdb1 Ra7 30.bxa5 bxa5 31.Rb5 e4 32.Rc1 exf3 33.gxf3 Nh5 34.Rd1 Nf6 35.c5 dxc5 36.Rxc5 Nd7 37.Rc3 Nf6 38.d6 Ra6 39.Rdc1 Rd8 40.Rd3 Rc8 41.Bb5 Rxc1 42.Bxa6 Rc2+ 43.Ke3 Nd7 44.Rd2 Rxd2
 47/66	24:57	 49.394.833k	32.982k	+0,25	19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.exd5 e5 21.b4 g6 22.Ba4 Nf6 23.a3 Kg7 24.h4 b6 25.Kf2 Rb8 26.g4 a5 27.Rb1 axb4 28.Rxb4 Ra8 29.Ra1 Ra7 30.Bc6 Ra6 31.a4 h5 32.g5 Ng8 33.Rab1 Rb8 34.Bd7 Ne7 35.Kg3 Ra7 36.Bh3 Ra6 37.a5 Rxa5 38.Rxb6 Rd8 39.Rb7 Nf5+ 40.Bxf5 gxf5 41.Re7 f4+ 42.Kf2 Ra2+ 43.Ke1 Ra4 44.Rc7 Kg8 45.Rbb7 Rf8 46.Rc6
 48/66	37:47	 74.885.994k	33.026k	+0,09	19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.cxd5 e5 21.Bd3 Rc8 22.Kf2 g6 23.b4 Nb6 24.g4 Na4 25.Rh1 Kg7 26.h4 Rc3 27.Rxc3 Nxc3 28.Ra1 h5 29.gxh5 f5 30.Ke3 fxe4 31.Bxe4 gxh5 32.Rg1+ Kf7 33.a3 Nxe4 34.fxe4 Rc8 35.Kd3 b5 36.Rg5 Rg8 37.Rxg8 Kxg8 38.Kc3 Kf7 39.a4 Kf6 40.a5 Kf7 41.Kb3 Ke7 42.Kc2 Kf6 43.Kd3 Ke7 44.Kd2 Ke8 45.Kc2 Ke7 46.Kb3
 49/65	39:28	 78.259.348k	33.041k	+0,08	19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.cxd5 e5 21.Bd3 Rc8 22.b4 Nb6 23.Kf2 g6 24.g4 Na4 25.Rh1 Kg7 26.h4 Nc3 27.Rc2 f5 28.exf5 Nxd5 29.Rxc8 Rxc8 30.Be4 Nf4 31.Rd1 d5 32.Bxd5 Rc2+ 33.Kf1 Nxd5 34.Rxd5 gxf5 35.Rd7+ Kg6 36.Rxb7 fxg4 37.fxg4 Rxa2 38.Rb6+ Kf7 39.h5 Rb2 40.g5 Kg8 41.Ke1 Rg2 42.h6 Rxg5 43.Rxa6 Rg4 44.b5 Rb4 45.b6 Kf7
 50/67	43:01	 85.413.387k	33.093k	+0,08	19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.cxd5 e5 21.Bd3 Rc8 22.b4 Nb6 23.Kf2 g6 24.g4 Na4 25.Rh1 Kg7 26.h4 Nc3 27.Rc2 f5 28.exf5 Nxd5 29.Rxc8 Rxc8 30.Be4 Nf4 31.Rd1 d5 32.Bxd5 Rc2+ 33.Kf1 Nxd5 34.Rxd5 gxf5 35.Rd7+ Kg8 36.Rxb7 fxg4 37.fxg4 Rxa2 38.h5 Rh2 39.Rb6 Rh4 40.Rxa6 Rxg4 41.b5 Rb4 42.Rb6 Rb2 43.Rb7 h6 44.Rb8+ Kf7 45.Rb6 e4 46.Ke1 Ke7 47.Rxh6 Rxb5 48.Kd2 Kf8 49.Ke3 Kg7 50.Rc6 Rxh5 51.Kxe4 Rb5
 51/64	43:26	 86.301.181k	33.105k	+0,08	19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.cxd5 e5 21.Bd3 Rc8 22.b4 Nb6 23.Kf2 g6 24.g4 Na4 25.Rh1 Kg7 26.h4 Nc3 27.Rc2 f5 28.exf5 Nxd5 29.Rxc8 Rxc8 30.Be4 Nf4 31.Rd1 d5 32.Bxd5 Rc2+ 33.Kf1 Nxd5 34.Rxd5 gxf5 35.Rd7+ Kg8 36.Rxb7 fxg4 37.fxg4 Rxa2 38.h5 Rh2 39.Rb6 Rh4 40.Rxa6 Rxg4 41.b5 Rb4 42.Rb6 Rb2 43.Rb7 h6 44.Rb6 Kf7 45.Rxh6 Rxb5 46.Kf2 Rb2+ 47.Ke3 Rh2 48.Ke4 Kg7 49.Re6 Rxh5 50.Kd5 e4+ 51.Kd4
 52/65	49:10	 98.098.196k	33.243k	+0,08	19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.cxd5 e5 21.Bd3 Rc8 22.b4 Nb6 23.Kf2 g6 24.g4 Na4 25.Rh1 Kg7 26.h4 Nc3 27.Rc2 f5 28.exf5 Nxd5 29.Rxc8 Rxc8 30.Be4 Nf4 31.Rd1 d5 32.Bxd5 Rc2+ 33.Kf1 Nxd5 34.Rxd5 gxf5 35.Rd7+ Kg8 36.Rxb7 fxg4 37.fxg4 Rxa2 38.h5 Rh2 39.Rb6 Rh4 40.Rxa6 Rxg4 41.b5 Rb4 42.Rb6 Rb2 43.Rb7 h6 44.Rb6 Kf7 45.Rxh6 Rxb5 46.Kf2 Rb2+ 47.Kg3 Rb3+ 48.Kg4 e4 49.Rc6 e3 50.Kf3 Kg7 51.Ra6
 53/76	49:58	 99.729.042k	33.262k	+0,08	19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.cxd5 e5 21.Bd3 Rc8 22.b4 Nb6 23.Kf2 g6 24.g4 Na4 25.Rh1 Kg7 26.h4 Nc3 27.Rc2 f5 28.exf5 Nxd5 29.Rxc8 Rxc8 30.Be4 Nf4 31.Rd1 d5 32.Bxd5 Rc2+ 33.Kf1 Nxd5 34.Rxd5 gxf5 35.Rd7+ Kg8 36.Rxb7 fxg4 37.fxg4 Rxa2 38.h5 Rh2 39.Rb6 Rh4 40.Rxa6 Rxg4 41.b5 Rb4 42.Rb6 Rb2 43.Rb7 h6 44.b6 Kf8 45.Ke1 e4 46.Kd1 e3 47.Rb8+ Ke7 48.b7 Kd7 49.Rh8 Rxb7 50.Ke2 Rb6 51.Kxe3 Re6+ 52.Kf4 Ke7 53.Rc8 Kf7 54.Rc7+ Kf6 55.Rc1 Rb6
 54/76	56:11	112.491.545k	33.365k	+0,08	19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.cxd5 e5 21.Bd3 Rc8 22.b4 Nb6 23.Kf2 g6 24.g4 Na4 25.Rh1 Kg7 26.h4 Nc3 27.Rc2 f5 28.exf5 Nxd5 29.Rxc8 Rxc8 30.Be4 Nf4 31.Rd1 d5 32.Bxd5 Rc2+ 33.Kf1 Nxd5 34.Rxd5 gxf5 35.Rd7+ Kg8 36.Rxb7 fxg4 37.fxg4 Rxa2 38.h5 Rh2 39.Rb6 Rh4 40.Rxa6 Rxg4 41.b5 Rb4 42.Rb6 Rb2 43.Rb7 h6 44.b6 Kf8 45.Ke1 e4 46.Kd1 e3 47.Rb8+ Ke7 48.b7 Kd7 49.Rh8 Rxb7 50.Ke2 Rb6 51.Kxe3 Ra6 52.Rh7+ Ke8 53.Kf2 Kf8 54.Rd7 Rf6+ 55.Ke3 Rf1 56.Rd8+ Kf7
 55/79	58:08	116.525.860k	33.406k	+0,08	19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.cxd5 e5 21.Bd3 Rc8 22.b4 Nb6 23.Kf2 g6 24.g4 Na4 25.Rh1 Kg7 26.h4 Nc3 27.Rc2 f5 28.exf5 Nxd5 29.Rxc8 Rxc8 30.Be4 Nf4 31.Rd1 d5 32.Bxd5 Rc2+ 33.Kf1 gxf5 34.Bb3 Rc3 35.Rd7+ Kf8 36.gxf5 Rxf3+ 37.Ke1 e4 38.Rf7+ Ke8 39.f6 e3 40.Rg7 e2 41.Re7+ Kf8 42.Re4 Rf1+ 43.Kd2 h5 44.f7 e1Q+ 45.Rxe1 Rxe1 46.Kxe1 Ng2+ 47.Kd2 Nxh4 48.Bd1 Kxf7 49.Bxh5+ Ke7 50.Kc3 Kd7 51.Bg4+ Kc7 52.a3 Kc6 53.a4 b5 54.axb5+ axb5 55.Be2 Nf5 56.Bd3 Nd6
 56/78	1:25:32	172.789.208k	33.665k	+0,08	19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.cxd5 e5 21.Bd3 Rc8 22.b4 Nb6 23.Kf2 g6 24.g4 Na4 25.Rh1 Kg7 26.h4 Nc3 27.Rc2 f5 28.exf5 Nxd5 29.Rxc8 Rxc8 30.Be4 Nf4 31.Rd1 d5 32.Bxd5 Rc2+ 33.Kf1 gxf5 34.Bb3 Rc3 35.Rd7+ Kf8 36.gxf5 Rxf3+ 37.Ke1 e4 38.Rf7+ Ke8 39.f6 e3 40.Rg7 e2 41.Re7+ Kf8 42.Re4 Rf1+ 43.Kd2 h5 44.f7 e1Q+ 45.Rxe1 Rxe1 46.Kxe1 Ng2+ 47.Kd2 Nxh4 48.Bd1 Kxf7 49.Bxh5+ Ke7 50.Kc3 Kd7 51.Bg4+ Kc7 52.a3 Kc6 53.Kb3 b5 54.Bc8 Kb6 55.a4 bxa4+ 56.Kxa4 Ng6 57.Be6 Nf4
 57/78	1:26:10	174.074.213k	33.669k	+0,08	19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.cxd5 e5 21.Bd3 Rc8 22.b4 Nb6 23.Kf2 g6 24.g4 Na4 25.Rh1 Kg7 26.h4 Nc3 27.Rc2 f5 28.exf5 Nxd5 29.Rxc8 Rxc8 30.Be4 Nf4 31.Rd1 d5 32.Bxd5 Rc2+ 33.Kf1 gxf5 34.Bb3 Rc3 35.Rd7+ Kf8 36.gxf5 Rxf3+ 37.Ke1 e4 38.Rf7+ Ke8 39.f6 e3 40.Rg7 e2 41.Re7+ Kf8 42.Re4 Rf1+ 43.Kd2 h5 44.f7 e1Q+ 45.Rxe1 Rxe1 46.Kxe1 Ng2+ 47.Kd2 Nxh4 48.Bd1 Kxf7 49.Bxh5+ Ke7 50.Kc3 Kd7 51.Bg4+ Kc7 52.a3 b5 53.Kd3 Ng6 54.Ke4 Ne7 55.Bf3 Nc8 56.Kd4 Nb6 57.Be4 Nd7
 58/80	1:35:35	193.814.860k	33.793k	+0,08	19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.cxd5 e5 21.Bd3 Rc8 22.b4 Nb6 23.Kf2 g6 24.g4 Na4 25.Rh1 Kg7 26.h4 Nc3 27.Rc2 f5 28.exf5 Nxd5 29.Rxc8 Rxc8 30.Be4 Nf4 31.Rd1 d5 32.Bxd5 Rc2+ 33.Kf1 gxf5 34.Bb3 Rc3 35.Rd7+ Kf8 36.gxf5 Rxf3+ 37.Ke1 e4 38.Rf7+ Ke8 39.f6 e3 40.Rg7 e2 41.Re7+ Kf8 42.Re4 Rf1+ 43.Kd2 h5 44.f7 e1Q+ 45.Rxe1 Rxe1 46.Kxe1 Ng2+ 47.Kd2 Nxh4 48.Bd1 Kxf7 49.Bxh5+ Ke7 50.Kc3 Kd7 51.Bg4+ Kc7 52.a3 b5 53.Kd3 Ng6 54.Ke4 Ne7 55.Bf3 Nc8 56.Kd5 Nb6+ 57.Ke5 Nd7+ 58.Ke6 Nb6
 59/78	1:46:51	217.382.432k	33.905k	+0,08	19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.cxd5 e5 21.Bd3 Rc8 22.b4 Nb6 23.Kf2 g6 24.g4 Na4 25.Rh1 Kg7 26.h4 Nc3 27.Rc2 f5 28.exf5 Nxd5 29.Rxc8 Rxc8 30.Be4 Nf4 31.Rd1 d5 32.Bxd5 Rc2+ 33.Kf1 gxf5 34.Bb3 Rc3 35.Rd7+ Kf8 36.gxf5 Rxf3+ 37.Ke1 e4 38.Kd1 Rf1+ 39.Kd2 Ng2 40.Rf7+ Ke8 41.Ke2 Rf4 42.Rg7 Nxh4 43.Rg8+ Kd7 44.Ke3 Rxf5 45.Rg7+ Kc6 46.Rxh7 Nf3 47.Kxe4 Ng5+ 48.Kxf5 Nxh7 49.Bc4 b5 50.Bd3 Kc7 51.Bc2 Nf8 52.a4 bxa4 53.Bxa4 Kb6 54.Bd1 Kc7 55.Be2 Kb6 56.Ke5 Ng6+ 57.Kf6 Nf4
 60/76	2:34:30	316.908.920k	34.186k	+0,08	19.Nd5 Bxd5 20.cxd5 e5 21.Bd3 Rc8 22.b4 Nb6 23.Kf2 g6 24.g4 Na4 25.Rh1 Kg7 26.h4 Nc3 27.Rc2 f5 28.exf5 Nxd5 29.Rxc8 Rxc8 30.Be4 Nf4 31.Rd1 d5 32.Bxd5 Rc2+ 33.Kf1 gxf5 34.Bb3 Rc3 35.Rd7+ Kf8 36.gxf5 Rxf3+ 37.Ke1 e4 38.Kd1 Rf1+ 39.Kd2 Ng2 40.Rf7+ Ke8 41.Ke2 Rf4 42.Rg7 Nxh4 43.Rg8+ Kd7 44.Ke3 Rxf5 45.Rg7+ Kc6 46.Rxh7 Nf3 47.Kxe4 Ng5+ 48.Kxf5 Nxh7 49.Bc4 b5 50.Bd3 Kc7 51.Ke5 Ng5 52.Kd5 Kb6 53.Kd4 Nf3+ 54.Kc3 Kc7 55.Bf5 Ne5 56.Be4 Kb6
.
Now, this line is already lost for black, white captures ed5 instead of cd5, and will soon create a passer on the queen side:

[d]3r1rk1/1p1n1ppp/p1bp4/3P4/2P5/5P2/PPB3PP/2RR2K1 b - - 0 2

After a research of this position, please don't tell me SF gives it higher than 8cps...?

Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6036
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:41 am

Re: Stockfish and Fischer

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:12 am

beram wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:And here my latest puzzle for you from Fischer's positional suite:

[d]3r1rk1/1p1n1ppp/pNbpp3/8/2P1P3/5P2/PPB3PP/2RR2K1 w - - 0 19

White to play and win, single winning move.
This is from Fischer-Rossetto, Mar del Plata 1959.

Anyone able to find it?

Engines are reputed to be very good in the endgame, due to diminishing number of lines.
Do the 64/16 cores see it?
This is yet another not winning position Lyudmil
Black has a refutation and this time also easy to find with your 4cpu PC
Meaning?
The book has the name of 'The Best Move', so it is sufficient for Nd5 to be the best move.
I bet Nd5 wins in at least 70% of the lines, while alternative moves draw ALL, so it is by far the best move.

What are your drawing options?

Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6036
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:41 am

Re: Stockfish and Fischer

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:18 am

APassionForCriminalJustic wrote:
beram wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:And here my latest puzzle for you from Fischer's positional suite:

[d]3r1rk1/1p1n1ppp/pNbpp3/8/2P1P3/5P2/PPB3PP/2RR2K1 w - - 0 19

White to play and win, single winning move.
This is from Fischer-Rossetto, Mar del Plata 1959.

Anyone able to find it?

Engines are reputed to be very good in the endgame, due to diminishing number of lines.
Do the 64/16 cores see it?
This is yet another not winning position Lyudmil
Black has a refutation and this time also easy to find with your 4cpu PC
Lyudmil is a complete liar. These phonies who believe that they are even remotely close to today's strongest engines are simply idiots. It's like saying that you could race the world's fastest sports car with a horse. This guy never stops. Let's see how strong Lyudmil really is. Go play a Super GM Lyudmil. Go play in super-strong tournaments if you have such superior chess skills. People like you are more delusional and arrogant than Trump himself. You are not even ten percent of what Stockfish is. You have no place, and absolutely no right even believing that you belong in that same sentence with Stockfish.

You are nothing more than child's play to these super-strong engines.

Lyudmil and ARB should be tag-team buddies; they thrive in their own fantasies.
Well, ChessBase published an article on ME, not on you: https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-secret-of-chess

Do you think it is really that easy to make it to the headlines of ChessBase?
Also see what people think for my book, for example on Amazon.it: https://www.amazon.it/Secret-Chess-Lyud ... t+of+chess

People are amazed at my skills and the profundity of 'The Secret of Chess'.

Whether you like it or not, I have published a book with 50 winning games against the top engines, 'Human versus Machine'.

SF got the strongest engine with my help in 2014, more than 10 successful patches then, based on my ideas.
What have you published and contributed?

Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6036
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:41 am

Re: Stockfish and Fischer

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:19 am

Ovyron wrote:
APassionForCriminalJustic wrote:Lyudmil and ARB should be tag-team buddies; they thrive in their own fantasies.
Who is ARB?
This guy: https://www.welshccf.org.uk/article/325

who has 2/10, and I have 6/10, above Berliner.

beram
Posts: 1187
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:11 pm

Re: Stockfish and Fischer

Post by beram » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:13 pm

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
beram wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:And here my latest puzzle for you from Fischer's positional suite:

[d]3r1rk1/1p1n1ppp/pNbpp3/8/2P1P3/5P2/PPB3PP/2RR2K1 w - - 0 19
White to play and win, single winning move.
This is from Fischer-Rossetto, Mar del Plata 1959.

Anyone able to find it?

Engines are reputed to be very good in the endgame, due to diminishing number of lines.
Do the 64/16 cores see it?
This is yet another not winning position Lyudmil
Black has a refutation and this time also easy to find with your 4cpu PC
Meaning?
The book has the name of 'The Best Move', so it is sufficient for Nd5 to be the best move.
I bet Nd5 wins in at least 70% of the lines, while alternative moves draw ALL, so it is by far the best move.

What are your drawing options?
Well, you undeniably wrote this: White to play and win, single winning move.

Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6036
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:41 am

Re: Stockfish and Fischer

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:57 pm

beram wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
beram wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:And here my latest puzzle for you from Fischer's positional suite:

[d]3r1rk1/1p1n1ppp/pNbpp3/8/2P1P3/5P2/PPB3PP/2RR2K1 w - - 0 19
White to play and win, single winning move.
This is from Fischer-Rossetto, Mar del Plata 1959.

Anyone able to find it?

Engines are reputed to be very good in the endgame, due to diminishing number of lines.
Do the 64/16 cores see it?
This is yet another not winning position Lyudmil
Black has a refutation and this time also easy to find with your 4cpu PC
Meaning?
The book has the name of 'The Best Move', so it is sufficient for Nd5 to be the best move.
I bet Nd5 wins in at least 70% of the lines, while alternative moves draw ALL, so it is by far the best move.

What are your drawing options?
Well, you undeniably wrote this: White to play and win, single winning move.
That was to impress you.
The book states on this: find the best move.
Nd5 is BY FAR the best move, so, what is your problem?

Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6036
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:41 am

Re: Stockfish and Fischer

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:00 pm

Btw., Bram, we simply don't know, maybe it is still won for white with perfect play, we don't have the way to check this, current top engines are too weak and I don't have the time now to delve more.

What happened to your analysis after Nd5 Bd5 ed5 e5(or was it Andreas'), you were claiming this is a draw, still certain?

Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6036
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:41 am

Re: Stockfish and Fischer

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:34 pm

Now, that you got me angry, here a position you will never solve:

[d]r1q2rk1/pb2bp1p/4p1p1/1p1pP1Pn/2pP4/P1P1P2Q/1PBN3P/R1B2RK1 w - - 0 17

White to play and win.
Fischer seems to be weak for you/your hardware.
Now, try a position from some of my own games.

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