Why can't programs...?

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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Mike S.
Posts: 1480
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:33 am

Re: Why can't programs...?

Post by Mike S. »

swami wrote: for openings and winning endings pre-moving is easier.
Premoves are especially useful for bullet/lightning, but I think they are very dangerous in the opening if you simply trust the opponent to play theory. A clever opponent could anti-premove you:

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 a6 :mrgreen: 3.Bb5 axb5 (maybe a too simple example).

I think once I won a queen similar to this, against a 'furiously' premoving opponent: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Bg4 5. Nc3 Bxd1

I use only 'safe' premoves, for recapturing moves if I can expect a capturing move. This bears no risk. For example, in the Ruy Lopez after 3...a6, I can enter d7xc6 as a premove, which can only happen if White plays Bxc6. Another occasion (less safe) is if the opponent practically must make a specific move, like the only move to recapture something. Although he could do something else if he is crazy enough. So I use it only if I want to put time pressure on him, and usually not in rated games, in such situations.

But the recapture-premoves are no problem. If the opponent plays something else, they simply disappear.
Regards, Mike
Uri
Posts: 523
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:34 pm

Re: Why can't programs...?

Post by Uri »

Tony Thomas wrote:I wont ever use premove, I am simply not strong enough to predict the opponents next move.
It's very difficult if not impossible to know what moves your opponent will play. Even if he doesn't play the best moves, it's very difficult to predict which move the opponent will make.
Tony Thomas

Re: Why can't programs...?

Post by Tony Thomas »

Uri wrote:
Tony Thomas wrote:I wont ever use premove, I am simply not strong enough to predict the opponents next move.
It's very difficult if not impossible to know what moves your opponent will play. Even if he doesn't play the best moves, it's very difficult to predict which move the opponent will make.
Its easy for Pablo to make premoves, because he moves the same pieces around after he gets a blocked position.
swami
Posts: 6664
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:21 am

Re: Why can't programs...?

Post by swami »

Mike S. wrote:
swami wrote: for openings and winning endings pre-moving is easier.
Premoves are especially useful for bullet/lightning, but I think they are very dangerous in the opening if you simply trust the opponent to play theory. A clever opponent could anti-premove you:

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 a6 :mrgreen: 3.Bb5 axb5 (maybe a too simple example).
Agreed. But careful premoving is good. I get the impression that premoving is more easier in irregular opening/closed position than in open type.

Better example would be 1.e4 e6, 2.d4 b6 3.Ba6 Bb7 4.Bxb7...this happens too often.
terminator

Re: Why can't programs...?

Post by terminator »

Uri wrote:Why can't programs use premove or something or play faster when they realize that the position is locked?
Can you give us an example position as no one (read me) may have understood what you are talking about?
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Ovyron
Posts: 4562
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Why can't programs...?

Post by Ovyron »

terminator wrote:Can you give us an example position as no one (read me) may have understood what you are talking about?
Like this one:

[d]1r6/2r4k/2q1pbp1/1p1p1p1p/p1nPnP1P/P1P2NP1/1P2Q1R1/3RBN1K w - - 0 1

The idea is to premove Kg1 and Kh1 indefinitely and win on time...
terminator

Re: Why can't programs...?

Post by terminator »

Is this ordinary chess we are talking about or some variant? I fail to see how premove to win on time comes into the equation here. Is this a 2600+ human GM game?
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Ovyron
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Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Why can't programs...?

Post by Ovyron »

No, here black is the chess engine Thinker, and white is Pablo doing his stuff.