TCEC resurrection - need to decide between ponder ON or OFF

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderator: Ras

Which option is the better?

3 cores, ponder OFF
35
69%
1 core, ponder ON
16
31%
 
Total votes: 51

User avatar
Laskos
Posts: 10948
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:21 pm
Full name: Kai Laskos

Re: TCEC resurrection - need to decide between ponder ON or

Post by Laskos »

Martin Thoresen wrote:...and the choices are:

1: 3 cores ponder OFF
2: 1 core ponder ON

The computer that is going to be used is an Intel Core i7 3770k @ 4400 MHz.

With ponder OFF the engines will search faster/deeper with 3 cores as opposed to just 1.

On the other hand, with ponder ON it doesn't matter if the engine is SMP capable or not as all engines have equal terms.

What do you prefer?
Why not 4 cores with HT on? You will still have some CPU time available for other small tasks.

Kai
jpqy
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:31 am
Location: Belgium

Re: TCEC resurrection - need to decide between ponder ON or

Post by jpqy »

Hi Martin,

First off all a Happy New Year 2013!

You will use a 3rd generation Intel processor = Ivy Bridge!
Then i would check/test first what are my nodes/sec. with HT OFF & ON
When you gain more then 20% in nodes..then i would try to play games ,using same engine with 4cores & 8threads..see whats the result.
And decide then using HT ON or Off.

Only for curious i would play with HT ON..and put engines playing with 4 cores and 8threads against each other!
When you want power & heat saving..play with HT Off!
For sure i keep Ponder OFF..no matter what you do 1core,2core against other 1core,2core engines with Ponder on will give dimisting results.
Ponder ON = use two systems i find!

Using 3cores ,2 or 1 to have some free cpu for doing some background task..i would never do! other tasks i do on other system..prevent disturbing on going games,same reason as Ponder On!

These are just my idea's..only you decide how you feel best with your tournaments!

Good luck..and look forward to follow these games again!

Kind regards,
Jean-Paul.
User avatar
Matthias Gemuh
Posts: 3245
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:10 am

Re: TCEC resurrection - need to decide between ponder ON or

Post by Matthias Gemuh »

Modern Times wrote:My vote would be two cores with ponder Off. Three is a weird number.
+1
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
http://www.chess.hylogic.de
carldaman
Posts: 2287
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:13 am

Re: TCEC resurrection - need to decide between ponder ON or

Post by carldaman »

Very glad TCEC is back! I'd prefer ponder off, but why not run some matches/tournaments with ponder on as well once in a while? That way, there will be something for everyone.

Regards,
CL
Modern Times
Posts: 3780
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:02 pm

Re: TCEC resurrection - need to decide between ponder ON or

Post by Modern Times »

Martin Thoresen wrote: The computer that is going to be used is an Intel Core i7 3770k @ 4400 MHz.
What happened to your other machine Martin ?
Lavir
Posts: 263
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:45 am

Re: TCEC resurrection - need to decide between ponder ON or

Post by Lavir »

Laskos wrote: Why not 4 cores with HT on? You will still have some CPU time available for other small tasks.
That would surely be the best solution if no much use is done of the PC, however in the case he wants to use some other application that requires CPU use not just limited to little spikes but semi-permanent, using 4 cores with HT can produce some unpredictability as Windows will switch physical cores around (and probably set some threads to logical processes instead), especially if the engines are set with lower priority. Using affinities will prevent this, but in that case it will be just like using the full 4 cores without HT, and could produce the same problems that would arise in that case.

So it all depends on what use is made of the PC. If it is only surfing etc. then 4 cores/HT would probably be the best solution, but if instead a more resourceful use of the PC is done (as an example using Photoshop or similar applications that require CPU time always) then it's better to use 3 cores, in that way you are sure that in any case physical cores are used by the engines.
Martin Thoresen
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:07 am

Re: TCEC resurrection - need to decide between ponder ON or

Post by Martin Thoresen »

Graham Banks wrote: Hi Martin,

it's great to see you back on the scene.

For what it's worth, I think you should go with your own preference. You'll enjoy things more that way.

Graham.
Thanks Graham.

Well, ultimately the choice is mine but it's always good to have some input from the community.
Martin Thoresen
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:07 am

Re: TCEC resurrection - need to decide between ponder ON or

Post by Martin Thoresen »

Modern Times wrote:My vote would be two cores with ponder Off. Three is a weird number.
Maybe to humans, but to the computer it doesn't matter.

I don't really see the point of reducing the number of cores from 3 to 2 just because it "looks" weird. :)
Martin Thoresen
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:07 am

Re: TCEC resurrection - need to decide between ponder ON or

Post by Martin Thoresen »

lucasart wrote: So, for fear of misuse, as well as lazyness, I never implemented the pondering option in my engine.
There's nothing voodooesque about pondering and you don't have to worry about me not knowing what I'm doing. :)
Martin Thoresen
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:07 am

Re: TCEC resurrection - need to decide between ponder ON or

Post by Martin Thoresen »

jpqy wrote: These are just my idea's..only you decide how you feel best with your tournaments!

Good luck..and look forward to follow these games again!

Kind regards,
Jean-Paul.
Thanks Jean-Paul!

HT ON is not really an option as I have to save some power, besides I don't really see the point of that unless using all cores.

The reason for 3 cores is that 1 core is left for the GUI, the FTP upload processes and everything else relevant for Windows.

With TCEC there was some hardware trouble once in a while, and I will not repeat this now. During the current testing I've not had one system failure and the temperatures are very good.