A REALLY Interesting new engine

[fern]

I have, but in the past.
Today engines are all very similar for the simple reason all of them uses the full list of techniques that are now public domain.
It is sad to realize that style and interest comes from some class or another of imperfection...

Fern

[Guenther]

... Or warning us about clones or quasi clones.

This happens each and every time, but most ignore this and happily toy around with them and add them to their 'collection'.

[Ponti]

If you want to play against the engines, modify the parameters.

That's the better way to get an interesting engine.

Rebel's main settings was boring. I used to play against the "Tal personality".

Hiarcs can be changed to a tactical monster. You can load a gambit book. Give yourself a rook up against Komodo !

[fern]

Good idea.
I will take a look at my old rebel 12 to get that Tal setting...
Fern

[Ponti]

You can make a tournament : take 6 or 8 engines rated +- 100 points below your rating and do a double round-robin tournament to see if you can get first place, just for fun.

It's not an easy task, though.

[fern]

Thank you, signore Ponti, you gave me a couple of good ideas....

Fern

[Ferdy]

If you want to play against the engines, modify the parameters.

That's the better way to get an interesting engine.

Rebel's main settings was boring. I used to play against the "Tal personality".

Right I try the Tal in Rebel Century 3.0 but with club player strength, I get sacrificed but was able to maintain my temper and won .

After the game make some analysis see if I the analysis lines were considered by me during the game. I usually get some fresh ideas from strong analysis engines this way. I also make a customized analysis tool, something that would tell which is better, playable and mistakes, sometimes it will tell me the threats of the opponents or my threats to the opponent. The engine is run on multipv 2, TC 5min + 15s inc. Annotator Stockfish 6, 5s/pos.
Better paste the pgn in Fritz, scid vs pc or HE gui.

[pgn]
[Event "Training"]
[Site "Home"]
[Date "2015.06.15"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Century 3.0 (Tal, club player)"]
[Black "Ferd"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Annotator "Stockfish 6 (5.0s/pos)"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 exd5 4. Bd3 Nf6 5. Ne2 Bd6 6. O-O
O-O 7. Re1 Nc6
8. Nbc3 $0 $10 {-0.09/18} ({Better is} 8. h3 Nb4 9. Bf4 Re8 10. Bxd6 $10 {-0.02/18})
({Also playable is} 8. c3 Ng4 9. g3 Qf6 10. Rf1 $10 {-0.05/18})
({Threatening} 8. -- 8... Ng4 9. g3 Qf6 10. Rf1 Nb4 {-0.59})
h6 $0 $10 {+0.18/19} ({Better is} 8... Ng4 9. g3 Qf6 10. Rf1 Nb4 $10 {-0.09/18})
({Also playable is} 8... Nb4 9. Bf4 c6 10. a3 Nxd3 $10 {-0.05/18}) 9. Nb5
Bb4 $0 $14 {+0.34/19} ({Better is} 9... Be7 10. c3 a6 11. Na3 Re8 $10 {+0.02/19})
({Also playable is} 9... Nb4 10. Nxd6 cxd6 11. Bf4 Re8 $10 {+0.15/19}) 10. c3 Ba5
11. a4 $0 $14 {+0.37/19} ({Better is} 11. Bf4 a6 12. Na3 Ne7 13. Nc2 $14 {+0.33/18})
({A mistake is} 11. Ng3 a6 12. Na3 Ne7 13. h3 $14 {+0.30/18})
a6 $0 $14 {+0.50/18} ({Better is} 11... Bb6 12. Ng3 Be6 13. Bf4 a6 $14 {+0.37/19})12. Na3
Ne7 13. b4 Bb6
14. Ng3 $0 $10 {+0.03/18} ({Better is} 14. a5 Ba7 15. Ng3 c6 16. Nh5 $14 {+0.49/19})
({Also playable is} 14. Qc2 c6 15. a5 Bc7 16. Bf4 $14 {+0.30/19}) c6
15. Ra2 $0 $10 {-0.13/20} ({Better is} 15. Qe2 Re8 $10 {+0.16/17})
({Also playable is} 15. Nh5 Ng6 16. Nc2 Bc7 17. g3 $10 {+0.00/17})
({Threatening} 15. -- 15... Bc7 16. Nc2 Ng6 17. a5 Bd7 {-0.20})
Bc7 $0 $10 {-0.05/18} ({Better is} 15... Ng6 16. Rae2 Bc7 17. Nc2 Bd7 $10 {-0.13/20})16. Rae2
Re8 $0 $10 {+0.00/20} ({Better is} 16... Ng6 17. a5 Bd7 18. f3 Qb8 $10 {-0.06/19})
({Also playable is} 16... Bd6 17. a5 Ng6 18. Nf5 Bc7 $10 {-0.06/19})
17. Qc2 $0 $10 {-0.02/18} ({Better is} 17. Nb1 Bg4 18. f3 Bd7 19. Nd2 $10 {+0.00/20})
({Also playable is} 17. a5 Bg4 18. f3 Be6 19. Qc2 $10 {+0.00/20})
({Threatening} 17. -- 17... Bg4 18. f3 Be6 19. a5 Qd6 {-0.07})Bg4 18. f3
Be6
19. Qa2 $0 $15 {-0.46/19} ({Better is} 19. a5 Qd7 20. Qb1 Qd6 21. Nf1 $10 {+0.00/20})
({Also playable is} 19. Nb1 Qd6 20. Re5 Ng6 21. Bxg6 $10 {-0.07/20})
({Threatening} 19. -- 19... a5 20. b5 Bd6 21. Qb2 Qc7 {-0.30})
Qd7 $0 $15 {-0.31/19} ({Better is} 19... Qd6 20. Re5 Qd7 21. R5e2 Ng6 $15 {-0.46/19})
({A mistake is} 19... Qb8 20. Nf1 Bf5 21. Bxf5 Nxf5 $10 {-0.21/19})
20. Qb1 $0 $15 {-0.32/19} ({Better is} 20. Qc2 Qd6 21. a5 Nh5 22. Nf1 $15 {-0.31/19})
({Threatening} 20. -- 20... a5 21. b5 Ng6 22. Nc2 Nf4 {-0.45})
b5 $0 $10 {+0.00/20} ({Better is} 20... Qd6 21. Nf1 a5 22. b5 c5 $15 {-0.32/19})
({Also playable is} 20... b6 21. Nc2 Nf5 22. Nxf5 Bxf5 $15 {-0.27/19}) 21. a5 Rad8 22. Qc2
Kf8 $0 $14 {+0.29/21} ({Better is} 22... Rc8 23. Nb1 Bxg3 24. hxg3 Bf5 $10 {+0.21/20})
({Also playable is} 22... Bd6 23. Nb1 Bxg3 24. hxg3 Bf5 $14 {+0.25/20}) 23. Nb1
Bd6 $0 $14 {+0.70/21} ({Better is} 23... Bxg3 24. hxg3 Bf5 25. Kf2 Bxd3 $14 {+0.27/22})
({Also playable is} 23... Ng6 24. Bxg6 fxg6 25. Qxg6 Bf7 $14 {+0.29/22}) 24. Nd2
Qc7
25. Ndf1 $0 $14 {+0.53/19} ({Better is} 25. Ngf1 Kg8 26. Nb3 Bc8 27. Be3 $14 {+0.81/20})
Bc8 $0 $14 {+0.72/20} ({Better is} 25... Kg8 26. Be3 Qd7 27. Nd2 Bxg3 $14 {+0.53/19})
26. Qb1 $0 $14 {+0.63/19} ({Better is} 26. Be3 Kg8 27. Nd2 Nd7 28. Nb3 $14 {+0.72/20})
({Also playable is} 26. Bd2 g5 27. Be3 Kg7 28. Bf2 $14 {+0.70/20})
Neg8 $0 $14 {+0.63/22} ({Better is} 26... Bd7 27. Be3 Kg8 28. Nd2 Bxg3 $14 {+0.63/19})
({A mistake is} 26... Kg8 27. Be3 Kh8 28. Nd2 Bxg3 $14 {+0.67/19})
27. Nf5 $0 $14 {+0.52/23} ({Better is} 27. Be3 Ne7 28. Bf2 g6 29. Nd2 $14 {+0.63/22})Rxe2
28. Bxe2 $0 $14 {+0.32/22} ({Better is} 28. Rxe2 Bxf5 29. Bxf5 Re8 30. Qc2 $14 {+0.51/23})
({Threatening} 28. -- 28... Bxh2+ 29. Nxh2 Rxe1+ 30. Nf1 Rde8 {-11.34})
Re8 $0 $14 {+0.84/22} ({Better is} 28... Bxf5 29. Qxf5 Re8 30. Bd2 g6 $14 {+0.32/22})
({Also playable is} 28... Bf4 29. Bxf4 Qxf4 30. N5e3 Re8 $14 {+0.54/22})
29. Qc2 $0 $14 {+0.28/21} ({Better is} 29. Nxd6 Qxd6 30. Bd2 Nh5 31. g3 $14 {+0.84/22})
({Also playable is} 29. Bd2 Bxf5 30. Qxf5 g6 31. Qb1 $14 {+0.37/22})
Ne7 $0 $14 {+0.73/20} ({Better is} 29... Bf4 30. N5e3 g6 31. Bd3 Kg7 $14 {+0.28/21})
({Also playable is} 29... Bxf5 30. Qxf5 g6 31. Qc2 Kg7 $14 {+0.32/21})
30. Nxh6 $0 $15 {-0.47/22} ({Better is} 30. Nxd6 Qxd6 31. Bd3 Ng6 32. Qd1 $14 {+0.73/20})
({Also playable is} 30. N5e3 g6 31. Bd3 Kg7 32. Re2 $10 {+0.24/20})
({Threatening} 30. -- 30... Bxf5 31. Bd3 Bxd3 32. Qxd3 Qc8 {-3.72})gxh6 31. Bxh6+ Kg8 32. Bd3
Bf4 $0 $15 {-0.55/22} ({Better is} 32... Nh5 33. Qd2 Bf4 34. Bxf4 Qxf4 $15 {-0.48/19})33. Bxf4 Qxf4 34. Qd2 Qxd2 35. Nxd2
Nf5 $0 $15 {-0.51/23} ({Better is} 35... Ng6 36. Rxe8+ Nxe8 37. Nb3 Nd6 $15 {-0.55/24})
({A mistake is} 35... Kg7 36. Kf2 Ng6 37. g3 Rxe1 $15 {-0.47/24}) 36. Rxe8+
Nxe8
37. Bxf5 $0 $15 {-0.63/25} ({Better is} 37. Kf2 Nfd6 38. Nb3 Nc7 39. h3 $15 {-0.47/24})
({Threatening} 37. -- 37... Ne3 38. g4 Kg7 39. Nb1 f5 {-1.07})Bxf5
38. Nf1 $0 $15 {-0.80/24} ({Better is} 38. Kf2 Bc2 39. Nf1 Kg7 40. h4 $15 {-0.67/25})
({Also playable is} 38. Nb3 Nd6 39. Nc5 Bc8 40. Kf2 $15 {-0.67/25})
({Threatening} 38. -- 38... Bc2 39. g3 Nd6 40. Kf2 Kg7 {-0.74})Bd3
39. h4 $0 $17 {-2.15/25} ({Better is} 39. Ne3 Kg7 40. Kf2 Nd6 41. h4 $15 {-0.76/25})
({Also playable is} 39. Ng3 Ng7 40. Kf2 f6 41. Ke3 $15 {-0.77/25})
({Threatening} 39. -- 39... Bxf1 40. Kxf1 Nd6 41. Ke2 Nc4 {-1.58})Bxf1 40. Kxf1
Kg7 $0 $17 {-1.87/26} ({Better is} 40... Nd6 41. Kf2 Nf5 42. h5 f6 $17 {-2.26/26})
({Also playable is} 40... f6 41. Kf2 Nd6 42. g4 Nc4 $17 {-2.02/26})
41. g4 $0 $17 {-2.93/25} ({Better is} 41. Kf2 Kg6 42. g4 f5 43. Ke3 $17 {-1.87/26})
({Also playable is} 41. Ke2 Kg6 42. g4 Ng7 43. Kf1 $17 {-1.87/26})
({Threatening} 41. -- 41... Nd6 42. Kf2 Nf5 43. h5 Kh6 {-2.72})f5
42. Ke2 $0 $19 {-3.81/27} ({Better is} 42. Kf2 Nf6 43. Ke3 fxg4 44. fxg4 $19 {-3.45/26})
({Threatening} 42. -- 42... Nf6 43. g5 Nh5 44. Kf2 Kg6 {-4.47})fxg4 43. fxg4 Nf6
44. Kf3 $0 $19 {-4.55/26} ({Better is} 44. Ke3 Ne4 45. Kf4 Nxc3 46. Ke3 $19 {-4.27/26})
({Threatening} 44. -- 44... Nxg4 45. Kf3 Nh6 46. Kf4 Kf6 {-5.32})Ne4
45. g5 $0 $19 {-4.92/26} ({Better is} 45. Ke3 Nxc3 46. Kd3 Na2 47. h5 $19 {-4.80/26})
({Also playable is} 45. Kf4 Nxc3 46. Ke3 Na2 47. Kd3 $19 {-4.87/26})
({Threatening} 45. -- 45... Nxc3 46. Ke3 Na2 47. Kd2 Nxb4 {-5.22})Nxc3 46. h5 Na2 47. Ke2 Nxb4 48. Kd2
c5 49. dxc5 Nc6 50. Kc3 b4+ 51. Kb3 Kh7 52. Kb2 Nxa5 53. Kb1 Nc6 54. Kc2
a5 55. Kb3 Nd4+ 56. Ka4 b3 57. Ka3 a4 58. c6 Nxc6 59. Kxa4 b2 60. Kb5
Ne7 61. Kc5 b1=Q 62. Kd4 Qe4+ 63. Kc3 Qc4+ 64. Kd2 Qd4+ 65. Kc2 Qf2+ 66. Kd1
d4 67. Kc1 Qa2 68. g6+ Kh6 69. g7 d3 70. g8=N+ Kg5 71. Nxe7 Qc2# 0-1
[/pgn]

[op12no2]

Hi Fernando, just out of interest, can you give some examples of what you would consider "interesting"...?

[fern]

Good question.
Engines like TAL and/or firsts Hiarcs version.
We couold add to that some old chessmasters, like 3000.
In the realm of dedicated units, machines like Superconnie.

[op12no2]

Can you describe the styles of play that make them interesting or is it difficult to de-abstract from mind to text? And/or can you describe why modern engines are not so interesting to you?

While most modern engines are made around the same basic shape, a few choice options could easily make them pretty wild - but weaker.

For example if one ramped up tropism for all pieces you'd have an army descend on your king. Is that too crazy or would it be interesting/fun?

What minimal ELO would you still need to make it a worthwhile game to you? That's the trade off: 'interesting' v -ELO.