Komodo vs FM John Meyer

[lkaufman]

Final score 3.5 to 0.5. John drew only game 3, the d7 game, which I thought would be the most favorable for him. Although he acknowledges that Komodo is too strong for him to win a match at this handicap, he is still confident that he could win four to zero at knight odds. I don't believe that myself, but I do believe he would win such a match. He'll ask his brother about a possible match; his brother (Eugene) is an IM and rated about 240 elo higher USCF (they don't play FIDE rated games anymore).

congratulation to you and the komodo team for such a strong performance.

how do you think komodo against john would do with exchanging 2 rooks for either 2 knights or 2 bishops. ?

same as a knight with 4 point advantage. but more imbalanced.

The double Exchange handicap (rooks for knights) is smaller than knight odds, maybe about like the knight for pawn given yesterday. The Exchange is about 1.5 pawns in the opening, not two. If it's rooks for bishops it's a smaller handicap; the bishop pair is worth about half a pawn.

[lkaufman]

Final score 3.5 to 0.5. John drew only game 3, the d7 game, which I thought would be the most favorable for him. Although he acknowledges that Komodo is too strong for him to win a match at this handicap, he is still confident that he could win four to zero at knight odds. I don't believe that myself, but I do believe he would win such a match. He'll ask his brother about a possible match; his brother (Eugene) is an IM and rated about 240 elo higher USCF (they don't play FIDE rated games anymore).

would komodo have found giving up 3 pawns tougher ?

Depends very much on the pawns. If they are a2,b2,c2, or a2,b2 e2, it would be a smaller handicap than knight for pawn. If something like c2,f2, and g2 it would probably be more than a full knight.

[whereagles]

I followed game 4 more closely. Very impressive play from K.. really annoying moves from a human perspective. Meyer's knight got stuck for a LONG time. It never came to play until it was too late. I think Meyer must have been a bit tired by then.

[lkaufman]

I followed game 4 more closely. Very impressive play from K.. really annoying moves from a human perspective. Meyer's knight got stuck for a LONG time. It never came to play until it was too late. I think Meyer must have been a bit tired by then.

He didn't act particularly tired. He felt that knight for pawn just wasn't quite enough for him, but he felt confident he could win at full knight odds.

[Jhoravi]

Perhaps give him a chance for full Knight Odds then. Komodo is much Stronger than the Old Rybka while Meyer is much older now.

[lkaufman]

Perhaps give him a chance for full Knight Odds then. Komodo is much Stronger than the Old Rybka while Meyer is much older now.

I told him I would offer him a knight odds match once I felt we had made some meaningful improvements that would help Komodo in such lopsided games. The two previous knight odds matches showed that Komodo is not yet strong enough to have even chances giving knight odds to players of 2100 to 2200 FIDE strength. John thinks nothing we can do will change that, I'm not so sure myself. I promised a match with another veteran of similar strength and credentials, Larry Gilden, but I didn't specify the terms. Seems knight is too much and knight for pawn not enough. Another option might be Exchange and pawn.

[Jesse Gersenson]

Seems knight is too much and knight for pawn not enough.

Knight odds at 5' + 1" would might be ok for an FM. 3' + 2", 3'+0" and 1' + 0 are common tempos for online chess.

Where are the pgn's of Fischer's knight odds matches? I have found none.

[lkaufman]

Seems knight is too much and knight for pawn not enough.

Knight odds at 5' + 1" would might be ok for an FM. 3' + 2", 3'+0" and 1' + 0 are common tempos for online chess.

Where are the pgn's of Fischer's knight odds matches? I have found none.

In blitz an ordinary FM would lose at knight odds; maybe a strong IM or weak GM (like me) would be a fair match. But anyway we're not looking to have blitz matches; everyone knows that humans aren't competitive with engines in blitz without large handicaps.
Fischer played mostly at pawn and move(s), rarely at knight odds, and mostly blitz or at least rapid games. But unfortunately these were mostly private money matches, and so far as I know no one recorded and preserved the game scores. FM Asa Hoffman played a lot of such games with Fischer, but I don't think he has game scores. GM Hans Ree mentioned losing at least one blitz game to Fischer at knight odds, but didn't mention having the game score. FM Larry Gilden (who may play Komodo soon) played many blitz games with Fischer, but I believe he got large money odds rather than time odds. Another top GM who played many games giving various material handicaps is Roman Dzindzichashvili, but probably he doesn't have game scores either. GM Larry Christiansen played a long series of material handicap games on ICC, so perhaps these games are preserved.

[whereagles]

He didn't act particularly tired.

Well, I mentioned "tired" because I think he missed a few moves that might have given him a better chance. For instance, I think the manuever e6, Nf6-d5 was needed at some stage (to block the d-file) and he kept delaying it. Trading the LSB also feels it wasn't done at the right time.

[thekingman]

Carlsen just narrowly lost (4-5) a friendly/casual blitz match to IM Lawrence Trent (FIDE 2472) while giving rook odds. This suggests that larger material odds are not impossible, although they obviously get more difficult with longer time controls. But larger material odds require playing for tricks and traps, rather than the "objective" best move, requiring a whole different type of optimization than simply trying to play the best "normal chess".