What a move 11.a3!! Aronian-Carlsen_Norway Chess 2017

[Jeroen]

Fourth serious game: 4 CPU, game in 60, no TB. Fourth successive white win, along the lines we were already analysing. Score, including Michael's games: 7-0 in white's favour, no draws.

[pgn][Event "Rapid 60m"]
[Site "Chess"]
[Date "2017.06.16"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Stockfish 260517 64 POPCNT"]
[Black "Houdini 5.01 x64-popc"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D45"]
[Annotator "1.36;1.04"]
[PlyCount "97"]
[TimeControl "3600"]

1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 e6 5. e3 a6 6. b3
Bb4 7. Bd2 Nbd7 8. Bd3 O-O 9. O-O Qe7 10. Bc2 Rd8 11. a3 Bxa3 12. Rxa3 Qxa3 13.
c5 Ne4 14. Bxe4 dxe4 15. Ng5 h6 16. Ngxe4 a5 17. Qc2 a4 18. bxa4 Qb4 19. Nd6
Qa5 20. Nd5 Qxa4 21. Ne7+ Kf8 22. Qxa4 Rxa4 23. Nexc8 Ra8 24. Rb1 Rdxc8 25.
Nxc8 Rxc8 26. Rxb7 {Both last book move} Ra8 {1.04/30 180} 27. Kf1 {1.36/39
322 (f3)} Ra1+ {1.20/30 464 (Ke8)} 28. Ke2 {1.41/39 146} Ke7 {1.15/30 147} 29.
e4 {1.39/36 20} Ra4 {1.31/30 171} 30. Kd3 {1.36/40 175} f6 {1.26/27 14} 31. Rc7
{1.43/36 17 (h4)} Ra6 {1.48/28 145} 32. Bf4 {1.54/39 93} e5 {1.40/30 87} 33.
dxe5 {1.43/36 19} Kd8 {1.47/31 123} 34. exf6 {1.58/39 71} gxf6 {1.41/30 49} 35.
Ke3 {1.55/41 94 (Ke2)} Nxc5 {1.48/32 88} 36. Kf3 {1.58/41 84} Ne6 {1.60/25 17}
37. Rh7 {1.58/41 40} Ng5+ {1.48/30 67} 38. Bxg5 {2.01/43 188} hxg5 {1.57/33 96}
39. Rg7 {2.01/37 14} c5 {1.70/31 79} 40. e5 {2.24/42 95} c4 {1.80/32 79 (Re6)}
41. exf6 {2.49/43 37} Rxf6+ {1.82/30 19} 42. Ke3 {2.56/43 16} Rf5 {2.16/34 119}
43. g4 {2.71/43 36 (f3)} Rd5 {2.90/30 106} 44. Ke4 {2.78/44 11} Rd2 {3.25/32
228 (Ra5)} 45. Rxg5 {2.97/48 37} Rxf2 {3.26/31 73} 46. h4 {2.97/47 11} c3 {
3.94/32 101} 47. Rc5 {2.97/51 70} c2 {6.02/30 105} 48. Ke3 {2.97/52 22 (h5)}
Rg2 {6.18/30 66 (Rh2)} 49. Kf3 {8.85/39 58 (Kf4) adjud.} 1-0[/pgn]

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

[d]r2k4/1R1n1pp1/2p1p2p/2P5/3PP3/8/3B1PPP/5K2 w - -

This position is also already lost. Here my analyzes:

29.Bf4 f5 30.exf5 exf5 31.Bd6 g5 32.g3 g4 33.Rc7 Ra4 34.Rxc6 Rxd4 35.Ra6 Kc8 (35....Ke8 36.c6! Rxd6 37.c7 +-) 36.Bf4 Kb7 37.Rxh6 +-

29.Bf4 f5 30.exf5 exf5 31.Bd6 and Stockfish is already over +3
31...g5 32.Rc7 Ra4 33.Rxc6 Rxd4 34.Bc7+ Ke7 35. Rxh6 Nxc5 36.Be5 Rd5 37.Bf6+ Kf7 38.Bxg5 Ne4 39.Be3 Nf6 40.h3

49/70 01:40 6.934.425k 69.140k +4,56 40.h3 Rb5 41.g3 Rb4 42.Kg2 Ra4 43.Bg5 Ne4 44.Bf4 Nf6 45.Be5 Ne4 46.h4 Ra5 47.Bd4 Rd5 48.Be3 Nf6 49.Bg5 Ne4 50.Rb6 Rc5 51.Rb7+ Ke6 52.Be3 Rd5 53.Rb4 Nf6 54.Rb6+ Kf7 55.Bg5 Ne4 56.Rh6 Ra5 57.Be3 Nc5 58.Rb6 Nd3 59.Rd6 Ra3 60.h5 Ne1+ 61.Kh3 Nf3 62.h6 Ra8 63.Rb6 Re8 64.Bc1 Rd8 65.Kg2 Ne1+ 66.Kf1 Nd3 67.Bg5 Re8 68.Rb7+ Kg6 69.Rg7+ Kh5 70.h7 Rh8 71.Be3 Nb4

this time you are certainly acting incorrect, Andreas.

you have chosen yourself a line going some 10 moves deep, that is certainly having a lot of gaps, and then, based on the position you liked, you simply switched on SF.

sorry, but that is more than ludicrous.

many engine matches have confirmed the position is much more drawn as otherwise, please see relevant post.

if you like, you might conduct a big test with LTC, to see what the actual state of affairs is.

[d]r2k4/1R1n1pp1/2p1p2p/2P5/3PP3/8/3B1PPP/5K2 w - -

ive spent some time trying different stockfish variations here (i'm terrible at chess, worse at endgames, & impatient w/ hardware, & lacking 6-man tablebaes, so this is nothing but throwing out scraps for thought) & the recurring theme is that black cannot stop the bishop parking on d6 & after this invariably ends up in zugzwang.

(trying komodo, it seems to recognize this theme very quickly & sacs the e-pawn, but i believe this loses too. another variation it sacs its knight & at first looks like it might just have a draw but continuing it i'm getting over +3 (my cutoff, as i lack the knowledge myself to know a won endgame & continuing manually from here in all variations would take ages. but it definitely seems komodo has some nice endgame knowledge SF is lacking)

from this deeply ignorant perspective, though, it certainly seems to me that if this position IS drawn, to be held OTB would require absolutely brilliant play...which i find as further support that a3 is a !! move. still i'm curious to see this latest position demonstrated concretely one way or the other, as i do think it's achievable.

ok, I have this one:

[pgn][Event "Blitz 1m"]
[Site "Microsoft"]
[Date "2017.06.15"]
[Round "?"]
[White "SF 8, owner"]
[Black "myself"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[Annotator "owner"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r2k4/1R1n1pp1/2p1p2p/2P5/3PP3/8/3B1PPP/5K2 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "10"]
[TimeControl "60"]

{512MB, OWNER-PC} 1. Bf4 {0} f5 {0} 2. exf5 {1.10/19 1} exf5 {1.32/18 0} 3. Bd6
{1.45/17 0} g5 {1.33/19 0} 4. g3 {1.50/18 0} g4 {3} 5. Rc7 {1.40/20 2} Ra4 {1.
31/19 0} (5... Ra4 {1.34/20 0} 6. Rxc6 {1.54/21 0} Rxd4 {1.66/21 0} 7. Ra6 {1.
71/20 0} Ke8 {1.34/18 0} 8. Kg2 {1.35/20 0} Kf7 {1.32/21 0} 9. c6 {1.36/23 0}
Rxd6 {1.30/26 0} 10. c7 {1.30/28 0} Rxa6 {1.30/28 0} 11. c8=Q {1.30/30 0} Rd6 {
1.30/30 0} 12. Qh8 {1.30/26 0} Nf8 {1.30/29 0} 13. Qe5 {1.30/26 0} Rf6 {1.30/
28 0} 14. Qd5+ {1.30/27 0} Ne6 {1.30/28 0} 15. Qd7+ {1.30/27 0} Kg6 {1.30/29 0}
16. Qe8+ {1.30/29 0} Kh7 {1.30/29 0} 17. h3 {1.30/29 0} Ng7 {1.30/29 0} 18. Qd7
{1.30/29 0} h5 {1.30/26 0} 19. f3 {1.30/29 0} Re6 {1.30/28 0} 20. Qd3 {1.30/30
0}) 1/2-1/2

[/pgn]

draw, is not it?

any suggestions, improvements?

time to see your analysis.

Lyudmil, it's not "my line", you suggested 29...f5 and I showed you my improvements, as you've requested. After 30.exf5 exf5 31.Bd6 black is completely lost, confirmed by Stockfish's eval over +3 at depth 50!
There is no fortress.

Stockfish 160617 64 BMI2: Intel E5-2686 v4, 32 threads, 32 GB Hash, 5-men Syzygy-Tablebases
50/97 1:32:31 310.691.952k 55.965k -3,19 31. ... g5 32.Ke2 Nf6 33.Rf7 Ra2+ 34.Kd3 Ra3+ 35.Kc2 Ne4 36.Rxf5 Ra2+ 37.Kd3 Nxf2+ 38.Kc4 Ne4 39.Rf8+ Kd7 40.Rf7+ Kd8 41.Bc7+ Ke8 42.Rh7 Rxg2 43.Rxh6

Another possible continuation 31...g5 32.Rc7 Ra4 33.Rxc6 Rxd4 34.Bc7+ Ke7 35. Rxh6 Nxc5 36.Be5 Rd5 37.Bf6+ Kf7 38.Bxg5 Ne4 39.Be3 Nf6 40.h3 +-
or
31...g5 32.Rc7 Ra6 33.g3 h5 34.Kg2 Ra4 35.Rxc6 Rxd4 36.Ra6 +-

[pgn][Event "Norway Chess"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2017.06.15"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Aronian"]
[Black "Carlsen"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D45"]
[PlyCount "79"]
[EventDate "2017.??.??"]

1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 e6 5. e3 a6 6. b3 Bb4 7. Bd2 Nbd7 8. Bd3 O-O 9. O-O Qe7 10. Bc2 Rd8 11. a3 Bxa3 12. Rxa3 Qxa3 13. c5 Ne4 14. Bxe4 dxe4 15. Ng5 h6 16. Ngxe4 a5 17. Qc2 a4 18. bxa4 Qb4 19. Nd6 Qa5 20. Nd5 Qxa4 21. Ne7+ Kf8 22. Qxa4 Rxa4 23. Nexc8 Ra8 24. Rb1 Rdxc8 25. Nxc8 Rxc8 26. Rxb7 Ra8 27. Kf1 Ke7 28. e4 Kd8 29. Bf4 f5 30. exf5 exf5 31. Bd6 g5 32. Rc7 Ra4 33. Rxc6 Rxd4 34. Bc7+ Ke7 35. Rxh6 Nxc5 36. Be5 Rd5 37. Bf6+ Kf7 38. Bxg5 Ne4 39. Be3 Nf6 40. h3 1-0[/pgn]

sorry, but I will post just a single reply to all here.

you must all understand I can not magically multiply myself 7- or 10-fold, to be able to answer some 12+ simultaneous messages.

I guess this also starts being a litttle bit boring, as no one is providing any substantial analysis, capable of fully convincing us, one way or another.

For me, the position after Rb7 is a draw, both if black exchanges rooks, or otherwise.
I have extremely convincing results on the 2nd position: more than 70% draws, using a larger pool of 10+ engines.

On the first position, with the trade, I have just slightly more draws, with the same pool, but that is a position, involving fortresses, engines simply do not understand. They are picking losing variations, instead of going for obvious fortress positions, evaluated by them much worse due to lacking positional factors.

I have absolutely no doubt the second position is an even easier draw, more than 101% sure.

@myself and who knows who else: well, I already got tired at this point, I must now answer single-handedly some 10+ posts...

@Andreas: well, already 32...Nf6, letting the rook loose is a huge mistake

@Roberto: you are one person whose posts I already definitely do not read; I already forgot what you wrote in your last one, you offended me again in some way, never mind.

@Mike, I already forgot if you posted something and whether I replied, never mind, at any case, the position is tricky for engines.

@Dann: well, Dann, striking a different, philosophic note, is welcome, but I guess there are more statisticians than otherwise on this forum. Anyone ready to run 100 000 LTC games for a definitive conclusion?

@Jeroen: well, why should I admit I am wrong, when you are the weaker player and my analysis is substantially much higher quality?
obviously, your point of view is that of a deranged one(here, I already am a bit harsh, but you insisted 3 or 4 times I am wrong, and that I should admit this, and then everything will befine). Are you drunk or what?

I have spent about 5 times more time on deeply learning chess in my life, and I definitely know top engine weaknesses much better than you, so obviously your attitude is an insult for me. I am not going to admit anything, as I am right.

It is about time that you and the rest apologise.

@in general: you are posting some games, how many drawn ones did not you post?

@in conclusion: this thread already starts being a bit boring, I guess also to other people, and my physical resources are so drained by stupidity and obnoxiousness, that quite probably, unless someone calls me AH 12 times in row, or posts sensational stats/analysis, definitively proving one way or another, I am simply going to pass.

@who knows whom: enjoy your day, but I am still right.

ciao bambini, ciao

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

this is indeed my last one, not going to asnwer to anyone here, just to do justice to the very simple single-piece endgame, which is a DEMONSTRABLE, obvious draw. (and Carlsen certainly will evaluate it like that after 1 sec., and will certainly have not the least effort in the world achieving the draw)

indeed, engines are scoring well here with white, even with a bit longer TC, but again, this is only because they fully misunderstand fortresses.

and, black can save the game ONLY through a fortress.

Top engines prefer some line like: Ba5 Na6 f4 (both Sf and Komodo seem to like that) f5 Kf2 Nb8!(engines do not see that, insetad they are moving the king) Kf3 Nd7 Bd8 Ke8 Bc7 Nf6 Be5 and now, of course, Ne4! (again, no engine sees that) Bg7 h5:

[d]4k3/6B1/2p1p3/2P2p1p/3PnP2/4PK2/6PP/8 w - - 0 10

well, that is a simple fortress DRAW, you might want to check with your engines for as long as you want.

alternatively, if black plays e4 instead of Kf3, trying to break in the center earlier, black has g6 Ke3 Ke8 Bc7 Na6 Be5 Nb4 Bg7 h5:

[d]4k3/6B1/2p1p1p1/2P2p1p/1n1PPP2/4K3/6PP/8 w - - 0 10

and this is a simple fortress DRAW again, you might want to check with your engines for as long as you want.

convinced now?

again, why should I admit I am wrong, when I am obviously right?

[Jeroen]

Fifth serious game, again an easy white win. Total score 5-0, including Michael's games: 8-0. That is convincing enough.

Thus, it is clear that this position is far, far away from an "easy draw" as has been claimed by Lyudmil.

[pgn][Event "Rapid 60m"]
[Site "Chess"]
[Date "2017.06.16"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Houdini 5.01 x64-popc"]
[Black "Stockfish 260517 64 POPCNT"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D45"]
[Annotator "1.17;1.32"]
[PlyCount "103"]
[TimeControl "3600"]

1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 e6 5. e3 a6 6. b3
Bb4 7. Bd2 Nbd7 8. Bd3 O-O 9. O-O Qe7 10. Bc2 Rd8 11. a3 Bxa3 12. Rxa3 Qxa3 13.
c5 Ne4 14. Bxe4 dxe4 15. Ng5 h6 16. Ngxe4 a5 17. Qc2 a4 18. bxa4 Qb4 19. Nd6
Qa5 20. Nd5 Qxa4 21. Ne7+ Kf8 22. Qxa4 Rxa4 23. Nexc8 Ra8 24. Rb1 Rdxc8 25.
Nxc8 Rxc8 26. Rxb7 {Both last book move} Ra8 {1.32/38 467} 27. Kf1 {1.17/29 196
} Ke7 {1.44/37 195 (Ra1+)} 28. e4 {1.26/27 81} Kd8 {1.41/36 90 (g5)} 29. Bf4 {
1.29/30 100} f5 {1.47/38 100} 30. exf5 {1.34/29 91} exf5 {1.45/35 16} 31. Bd6 {
1.30/26 24} g5 {1.63/37 123} 32. Rc7 {1.41/29 80 (Ke2)} Ra1+ {1.66/34 124} 33.
Ke2 {1.41/1 0} Ra6 {1.99/37 213 (Ra2+)} 34. g3 {1.54/28 64} Nf6 {2.15/35 137}
35. Rf7 {1.60/29 68} Ra2+ {2.17/34 60} 36. Kf3 {1.50/28 17} g4+ {2.31/38 203}
37. Kg2 {1.75/30 82} Nd5 {2.56/38 108 (Ne4)} 38. Bf4 {2.17/29 74} Ra4 {3.02/38
213} 39. Bxh6 {2.40/27 62 (Rxf5)} Rxd4 {3.06/36 63} 40. Rxf5 {2.51/27 73} Rc4 {
3.25/38 71} 41. Bf8 {2.73/28 57} Kd7 {3.50/39 110 (Nb4)} 42. Re5 {2.92/29 83
(h4)} Nb4 {3.83/36 169 (Rd4)} 43. Re7+ {3.18/26 73} Kd8 {4.32/35 91 (Kc8)} 44.
Re2 {3.21/25 0} Nd3 {4.59/37 96 (Nc2)} 45. f3 {3.70/24 45} Nc1 {4.64/31 8
(gxf3+)} 46. Re3 {4.08/26 53} Rc2+ {5.28/37 95} 47. Kf1 {4.25/26 54} gxf3 {
5.97/39 116} 48. h4 {4.51/26 43} Ne2 {6.23/38 41} 49. Rxf3 {4.82/27 47} Nc3 {
6.44/37 53} 50. Rf2 {5.12/24 50} Rc1+ {6.81/38 104} 51. Kg2 {5.01/1 0} Re1 {
7.05/38 41 (Ke8)} 52. h5 {5.84/23 40 adjud.} 1-0[/pgn]

[fastgm]

@Andreas: well, already 32...Nf6, letting the rook loose is a huge mistake

All other moves are also losing.
Believe me, I am a experienced correspondence chess player and I know how to analyze such positions with different engines.
Show me your drawing line(s) after 31.Bd6 and I show you the refutation.

Andreas

[IQ]

Top engines prefer some line like: Ba5 Na6 f4

Oh my god f4?? An unprovoked commital pawn move that early? Putting the pawn on the same color as the bishop? Locking the center in an bishop vs. knight endgame. Lyudmil, I am happy that you reveal your true chess strength here time after time.

both Sf and Komodo seem to like that

False. Neither Komodo nor Stockfish on my System prefer f4. Maybe your computer is very slow??

again, why should I admit I am wrong, when I am obviously right?

If you want to seriously analyze this ending you have to be very careful in making pawn moves, especially h4 or f4 (same color as bishop) - better only make them if your are absolutely sure that the resulting position is winning (eval > 5 and take a look at the end of PV as there are some +4 fortresses in this position). But it is winning for white - are you up for another challenge Lyudmil?

[Jeroen]

many engine matches have confirmed the position is much more drawn as otherwise, please see relevant post.

More nonsense. Today I posted 5 serious games, all won by white. Together with Michael's games that gives an 8-0 score in serious games. Naturally, you "forgot" about those.

Of course admitting that the ending is indeed lost for black, completely destroys your first claim that "11.a3 is bad and 11.c5 is much better". Therefore you do your utmost best to declare a very bad and probably lost ending "drawn". All means allowed. Counter arguments ignored.

Today I offered you a helping hand in 2 postings. Now I know this is in vain. You simply want to be stupid. So be it.

[Jeroen]

@Jeroen: well, why should I admit I am wrong, when you are the weaker player and my analysis is substantially much higher quality?
obviously, your point of view is that of a deranged one(here, I already am a bit harsh, but you insisted 3 or 4 times I am wrong, and that I should admit this, and then everything will befine). Are you drunk or what?

Dear Lyudmil, my rating is 2199 and thus higher than your's

https://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=1006916

Do you EVER check something before you write your BS!?

Finally, your analysis is full of holes and you are just too stubbornly stupid to understand that you can be wrong. I published 5 serious games today, all won by white. Sofar your "easy draw" claim. I have never seen somebody posting so many bad suggestions and then claim afterwards that he is right and the ROW is wrong. You are such a sad person!

A tip: take some days off here, you really need it.

[Jeroen]

OMG, another 3-0 loss for black

My guess: "the games are bogus, the engines are wrong, we are all wrong and only Lyudmil is correct".....

[Jeroen]

Missed Michael's posting, so it is currently 11-0 in serious games. Three games added played with 26... Rb8.

It looks, though, that 26... Rb8 is indeed the best try. Not trading rooks appears to simply lose and also rather quickly.